Breakdown
Gunnar Durden
- 5,810
- 8,022
Are you shitting me? The first thing smaug says is he didn't recognize the hobbit smell. Gandalf says that as well. And bilbo gives all of those names. Did you even see the movie?
The Hobbit
- Thread starter Feien
- Start date
You missed the point. The dwarves never went in in the book, and Bilbo made a narrative about himself becaues Smaug didn't know who or what he was. He takes the ring off in the movie, and the dwarves come inside. That whole narrative was lost in favor of a bumbling action scene.
i agree. the whole action scene at the end with the dwarves was completely unnecessary and takes away from the dialogue between bilbo and smaug. i don't even think in the book bilbo ever takes his ring off, nor does smaug ever really figure out exactly where bilbo is. it's almost like another game of riddles like bilbo has with gollum, and smaug guesses incorrectly that the men from lake town have sent him to get the treasure. that's why he takes off to destroy the town. it would have been much better if they just would have stuck to the way it was in the book. that entire chase scene with the dwarves and smaug could have been removed and it would have actually made the movie a lot better.
Breakdown
Gunnar Durden
- 5,810
- 8,022
Yeah....Ok.
That doesnt translate to movie form.
Bilbo and co. find keyhole. Bilbo goes in and talksto smaug. Smaug flies away. End of movie.
Much worse on screen. They needed SOMETHING ELSE.
Now I will fully admit had this been 2 movies or even one then yes, they wouldnt need to break or add this.
But they decided 3, and realistically all the added GOOD stuff puts it over 2 films, barely. But they decide 3 and cant end 2 like that, so oh well, we get Golden Dwarf Rivers.
That doesnt translate to movie form.
Bilbo and co. find keyhole. Bilbo goes in and talksto smaug. Smaug flies away. End of movie.
Much worse on screen. They needed SOMETHING ELSE.
Now I will fully admit had this been 2 movies or even one then yes, they wouldnt need to break or add this.
But they decided 3, and realistically all the added GOOD stuff puts it over 2 films, barely. But they decide 3 and cant end 2 like that, so oh well, we get Golden Dwarf Rivers.
Pancreas
Vyemm Raider
- 1,124
- 3,818
That action sequence was to satiate the desire to see the dragon do something before the end of the movie. I just watched The Desolation recently and I have to say that even though I went into the movie with low expectations I was still disappointed.
The amount of pointless filler in these movies is approaching legendary levels. I mean, with the length of all three films combined they could easily have done a page by page rendition of the hobbit. Hell, by the time the third movie comes out, I could sit down and read the hobbit quicker than watch it.
But length isn't the problem, the problem lies in the incredibly anemic character development and lack luster pacing. I was really bored with Smaug's scooby doo chase through Eador. (Actually if they had played the scooby doo theme during that whole sequence I would have found it much more enjoyable.)
The entire point of The Hobbit novel, the central theme, was that even meek individuals, who might not seem like much at first glance, can sometimes summon up incredible courage and wits and prove to be more reliable than the most heroic of champions. Yet in each scenario where Bilbo displayed his wit and cleverness in the novel, these movies choose to devolve those scenes into unnecessary action and chaos in order to provide some sort of visual thrill. It's cheap and over done.
So yeah, I am not looking forward to the last installment. I really can't see any way to redeem these movies at this point. No matter how many cpu's they sacrifice to the CGI gods in order to make the battle of five armies sequence last an hour and a half, I have little interest to see it.
The amount of pointless filler in these movies is approaching legendary levels. I mean, with the length of all three films combined they could easily have done a page by page rendition of the hobbit. Hell, by the time the third movie comes out, I could sit down and read the hobbit quicker than watch it.
But length isn't the problem, the problem lies in the incredibly anemic character development and lack luster pacing. I was really bored with Smaug's scooby doo chase through Eador. (Actually if they had played the scooby doo theme during that whole sequence I would have found it much more enjoyable.)
The entire point of The Hobbit novel, the central theme, was that even meek individuals, who might not seem like much at first glance, can sometimes summon up incredible courage and wits and prove to be more reliable than the most heroic of champions. Yet in each scenario where Bilbo displayed his wit and cleverness in the novel, these movies choose to devolve those scenes into unnecessary action and chaos in order to provide some sort of visual thrill. It's cheap and over done.
So yeah, I am not looking forward to the last installment. I really can't see any way to redeem these movies at this point. No matter how many cpu's they sacrifice to the CGI gods in order to make the battle of five armies sequence last an hour and a half, I have little interest to see it.
Was pretty pissy with the first movie. Ninja dwarfs doing somersaults in the air fighting the ogres. Invented fight with the orcs at the end. Jackalope Sled. Ending the movie five minutes from meeting Beorn, the hardest motherfucker in middle earth. My ex gave me tons of shit for not liking it. Went to see DoS with her a couple days ago. She was devastated by the movie. In the first film the additions were kept mostly seperate from the main plot and my complaint was more than things were poorly done rather the fact that is wasn't in the book.
DoS took things to another fucking level. Elf maiden from Dickwood falls for charming dwarf? Bilbo naming Sting? No one in Mirkwood notcing what had to be a hundred fucking orcs strolling around outside? The god fucking AWFUL battle down the white water rapids(seriously? what percentage of barrels manage to make it down that fucking river)? Legolas's creepy fucking eyes that are different from LotR for no apparent reason? "We can't outrun the orcs with Killi's leg injured. WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO! LETS TALK ABOUT IT FOR FIVE MINUTES! Oh, I guess we can ride the barge 30 feet from us that has been there long enough for Bard to load all the fucking barrels on by himself...". Every single moment in Laketown, from everyone going on vacation five minutes before dozens of orcs arrive to special retarded dwarf crossbow and Smaugs weakness retcon. The "hidden" door being at the top of the only statue with built in fucking stairs "Hey Dfuckit why did we only build super blatant stairs on the one statue? SHUT THE FUCK UP DRETARD OR PEOPLE WILL KNOW ABOUT THE SECRET DOOR". Telling Bilbo about the Arkenstone, which negates the entire logic behind the battle of five armies since he has no valid claim to it and it would be outright theft if he takes it and gives it to the elves. Bilbo not wearing the ring and being a clumsy fucking dipshit. Thorin being a sociopath dipshit, the other dwarfs entering the mountain, the scooby doo chase scene, Thorin riding a metal shield down a river of molten gold while gripping the shield by its edges, could be wrong but afaik dwaven royalty isn't immune to the law of molten metal burns the fuck out of you. Molten metal statue that holds its form perfectly while held in place with nothing but dramatic tension. Molten metal statue whose volume more than quadruples when it flows apart in a crashing wave that goes only in one direction. This is all just shit off the top of my head.
There were three things in the entire movie I liked and thought were well done. Beorn was actually pretty cool. I accidently saw some concept art of his man form and was pretty pissed that he looked stupid. In the film it was actually pretty well done. Had they lost the crazy eyebrows I would have liked it more but they weren't a deal breaker by any means. The talking spiders only being understood by Bilbo while wearing the ring was actually pretty cool and I think better than how it was in the book. Very well done and a great idea. Gandalf's battle with Sauron. Wasn't anything to write home about but the visual effect of his sphere of white light v Saurons overwhelming darkness was gorgeous and extremely well executed.
DoS took things to another fucking level. Elf maiden from Dickwood falls for charming dwarf? Bilbo naming Sting? No one in Mirkwood notcing what had to be a hundred fucking orcs strolling around outside? The god fucking AWFUL battle down the white water rapids(seriously? what percentage of barrels manage to make it down that fucking river)? Legolas's creepy fucking eyes that are different from LotR for no apparent reason? "We can't outrun the orcs with Killi's leg injured. WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO! LETS TALK ABOUT IT FOR FIVE MINUTES! Oh, I guess we can ride the barge 30 feet from us that has been there long enough for Bard to load all the fucking barrels on by himself...". Every single moment in Laketown, from everyone going on vacation five minutes before dozens of orcs arrive to special retarded dwarf crossbow and Smaugs weakness retcon. The "hidden" door being at the top of the only statue with built in fucking stairs "Hey Dfuckit why did we only build super blatant stairs on the one statue? SHUT THE FUCK UP DRETARD OR PEOPLE WILL KNOW ABOUT THE SECRET DOOR". Telling Bilbo about the Arkenstone, which negates the entire logic behind the battle of five armies since he has no valid claim to it and it would be outright theft if he takes it and gives it to the elves. Bilbo not wearing the ring and being a clumsy fucking dipshit. Thorin being a sociopath dipshit, the other dwarfs entering the mountain, the scooby doo chase scene, Thorin riding a metal shield down a river of molten gold while gripping the shield by its edges, could be wrong but afaik dwaven royalty isn't immune to the law of molten metal burns the fuck out of you. Molten metal statue that holds its form perfectly while held in place with nothing but dramatic tension. Molten metal statue whose volume more than quadruples when it flows apart in a crashing wave that goes only in one direction. This is all just shit off the top of my head.
There were three things in the entire movie I liked and thought were well done. Beorn was actually pretty cool. I accidently saw some concept art of his man form and was pretty pissed that he looked stupid. In the film it was actually pretty well done. Had they lost the crazy eyebrows I would have liked it more but they weren't a deal breaker by any means. The talking spiders only being understood by Bilbo while wearing the ring was actually pretty cool and I think better than how it was in the book. Very well done and a great idea. Gandalf's battle with Sauron. Wasn't anything to write home about but the visual effect of his sphere of white light v Saurons overwhelming darkness was gorgeous and extremely well executed.
One of the basic issues with this . Taking an 80 page book and turning it into three films expected too gross 500 million each. The cartoon movie manage to capture the entire story very well in a couple hours.
Quaid
Trump's Staff
- 11,538
- 7,842
It was never the goal of these films to capture the themes of the books... Only to replicate the setting and to some extent, the plot. Hell, what percentage of people who go see this movie have even read the books, and of those, what percentage understood its themes?
This was a big budget cash-in on a recognizable IP. Nothing more. If you went in thinking it was going to be anything more... Well... I don't know what to say.
Furthermore, stories evolve over time to reflect the values of the current culture. Look at how much Greek myth changed over time. Same thing. Get used to it.
This was a big budget cash-in on a recognizable IP. Nothing more. If you went in thinking it was going to be anything more... Well... I don't know what to say.
Furthermore, stories evolve over time to reflect the values of the current culture. Look at how much Greek myth changed over time. Same thing. Get used to it.
Pancreas
Vyemm Raider
- 1,124
- 3,818
Yeah and this story evolved into a bloated, boring, visual effects extravaganza filled with washed out characters and logical inconsistencies. Like I said, I went in with low expectations knowing that it was going to be loaded with all kinds of filler material to hit that 2.5 hour mark, and yet I was still thoroughly disappointed because it's just a bad movie. Even if Tolkien had never picked up a pen, this movie would still suck.
Quaid
Trump's Staff
- 11,538
- 7,842
reavor
I'm With HER ♀
- 4,783
- 16,560
I enjoyed the first movie, and although it too was bloated with extra filler, it felt more seamless, and more true to the book.
However, Hobbit 2, felt less connected to the book, and the filler material was more apparent.
However, Hobbit 2, felt less connected to the book, and the filler material was more apparent.
The whole dol guldur part felt really confusing, with gandalf (a being capable of defeating a balrog) being chased around by a few orcs. Although the sauron bit was kind of OK.
The Smaug bit that was true to the book was good in my opinion, but it seems highly inconcievable that the dwarves would ever even consider going straight up against smaug.
the beorn part further felt flat and missing the important point of the encounter as described in the book. if PJ wanted to inflate the movie, the beorn bit seems IMO to have been a golden opportunity to do so and still follow the book.
the romance, the absence of songs, the whole bard as a han solo smuggler type of character gave a sour taste.
The Smaug bit that was true to the book was good in my opinion, but it seems highly inconcievable that the dwarves would ever even consider going straight up against smaug.
the beorn part further felt flat and missing the important point of the encounter as described in the book. if PJ wanted to inflate the movie, the beorn bit seems IMO to have been a golden opportunity to do so and still follow the book.
the romance, the absence of songs, the whole bard as a han solo smuggler type of character gave a sour taste.
what the hell are you even talking about? just because most people are dumb as fuck, doesn't mean that as a director you have to create a movie for the least common denominator. he made the first 3 LOTR movies, they pretty much nailed the overall theme of the books, and were a huge success. the special effects augmented the movies, they weren't its centerpiece. there's no reason you can't nail the overall theme of "the hobbit" and not entertain people at the same time. the book was exciting as fuck. these movies are soulless pieces of shit because PJ lost his desire to make art and instead wanted to make special effects in 3D HFR. the problem isn't the story, the problem is all the bullshit that jackson is trying to add to stretch this thing out for 3 movies so he can make more money. if he would have not added in all the extra crap (too many to list) and just made it maybe 2 movies instead, it could have been every bit as good as the LOTR. hell, like someone else mentioned, the animated movie was a million times better than these movies, and they managed to fit the entire book into a couple of hours.
Smaug bit was extremely different from the book.
Book:
Movie:
Book:
Bilbo goes in invisible, they don't know if the dragon is actually still alive and/or there. He sees the dragon but it's asleep. He steals some gold and a bejeweled cup and goes back to the dwarves. Dwarves celebrate that they have some treasure. Smaug wakes up slightly, notices the cup is gone (even though he's ridiculously wealthy, that's how greedy dragons are) and goes apeshit. Flies outside, eats their ponies from laketown, forces them to close the secret door behind them so they are trapped. Smaug goes back inside, pretends to be asleep. Bilbo goes back in invisible again and this time the dragon is actually awake and SMELLS him even though he doesn't know the scent. Smaug knows the ponies he ate were ridden by dwarves and he talks to Bilbo about it. Bilbo laughs at the dragon and slips away barely escaping firebreath, even though Smaug doesn't know where he is, he was beginning to get a general direction via scent and sound. Smaug gets pissed off, flies to Laketown.
Movie:
Bilbo goes in clumsy as hell, wakes the dragon almost instantly, dragon appears powerful enough to pierce through ring invis (even though in the books Sauron is more powerful than a dragon and it's HIS ring after all), Monty Python antics ensue.
Chukzombi
Millie's Staff Member
- 71,704
- 213,021
jesus christ, the butthurt on this page alone is legendary. i am a pretty big Hobbit/LotR fan, read all 4 books at least a half dozen times each. what i always felt at the end was the same. i wanted the adventure to keep on going. Peter Jackson comes along and does just fucking that. there was nothing wrong with this movie in the context of a standalone movie. of course he was going to take liberties with the adaption, he did the same thing in LotR. he invented an elven chick as a love interest. if i had a complaint was him reusing stuff he did from his LotR trilogy. there were many things i liked about this film. much more than i liked from the first part. i went in with low expectations and i was pleasantly surprised. i liked the dwarves trying to kill smaug with gold. that shit was visually awesome.
yeah it did not come to much because smaug is friggin fire proof and pretty much a flying balrog himself. still i liked how it changed the dwarves from a bunch of greedy cowardly dicks into a team of badasses trying to stop the dragon on their own. the complaints i had are typical of prequels. when characters from the first trilogy are used all their perilous scenes mean nothing because you know they are totally alright or else they would not appear in the later trilogy. it also means the people not in the later films will likely die in this set. its not a fault of the movie so much as the process of prequel making.
that being said, i came away happy from Desolation of Smaug and i really liked the hard looking mature Orlando Bloom.
yeah it did not come to much because smaug is friggin fire proof and pretty much a flying balrog himself. still i liked how it changed the dwarves from a bunch of greedy cowardly dicks into a team of badasses trying to stop the dragon on their own. the complaints i had are typical of prequels. when characters from the first trilogy are used all their perilous scenes mean nothing because you know they are totally alright or else they would not appear in the later trilogy. it also means the people not in the later films will likely die in this set. its not a fault of the movie so much as the process of prequel making.
that being said, i came away happy from Desolation of Smaug and i really liked the hard looking mature Orlando Bloom.
Yeah fuck you cunts. It's a small book made into 3 movies ofcourse it's going to be barely like the book. I love them. The action scenes are unbelievable. I wish there was a bit more dialogue but fuck me if I didn't want more.