The Matrix Resurrections (2021)

Caliane · Sep 30, 2021

OU Ariakas said:
I'm pretty sure that stupid fucking rave scene was the minute I realized that the first Matrix was a fluke.

it was 100% the point I went from "meh", to actively hating it.

Caliane · Sep 30, 2021

Grizzlebeard said:
The original Matrix gets a massive pass from me just because it was so awesome compared to anything I'd seen before. If you really think about the plot it really is piss poor. The robots enslave humans as batteries so they can keep on living? Really?

Why not just mine the shit out the planet, use the planet's core somehow, or build towers or send rockets above the layer blocking out the sun. I mean, why waste the sheer amount of energy needed to keep the humans alive just to get some small percentage back?

the battery thing I am pretty sure is incorrect. Morpheus states that. But, he doesn't know whats going on. he was created by the Matrix to lead people to Zion, in that cycle. we are expressly told, Morpheus is not correct about some things.

granted, is that just a retcon, to give some plausible deniability to the stupid battery thing? maybe.
do they every actually explain the full purpose? is it just to preserve humans, to evolve humans, etc?

It should be noted, we DON'T have any idea what the machines are doing outside the Matrix. They could be exploring space, terraforming, etc..

Cybsled · Sep 30, 2021

Ya, the battery thing was a forced studio change because they thought using the humans as advanced network processors was too advanced for the audience to understand

j00t · Sep 30, 2021

Id actually be fully on board if what we know about the matrix is purposely wrong. WW3 blotted out the sun, so it was man against man, not man vs robots. Man created the robots to work together and create the matrix as a techno cryo sleep with man charging the machines to watch over them until the machines terraform the earth. Smith is correct in that the first iterations didn't work because it was too peaceful and humanity's instinctual guilt wouldn't allow it to work.

Smith IS an aborrant virus because he hates humans despite his programming to watch over and guard them.

The One being hardcoded into the matrix is just design the humans put in to create strife in the matrix because humans can't deal with peace.

Obviously that theory needs work but I'd be happy to watch something like that instead of matrix 1 ver2

Big Phoenix · Sep 30, 2021

Cybsled said:
Ya, the battery thing was a forced studio change because they thought using the humans as advanced network processors was too advanced for the audience to understand

Are people really that stupid? That would have been a lot more logical than humans being used to power fusion.

nu_11 · Sep 30, 2021

Cybsled said:
Ya, the battery thing was a forced studio change because they thought using the humans as advanced network processors was too advanced for the audience to understand

This is plausible. I think it’s already been included in another major sci-fi novel.

Hyperion?

Chukzombi · Sep 30, 2021

Big Phoenix said:
Are people really that stupid? That would have been a lot more logical than humans being used to power fusion.

the human battery thing was done already. Stephen King's book from the 80s called The Tommyknockers. spaceship crashes into the Earth thousands and thousands of years ago. it gets accidently found in the 80s and a woman immediately falls under its control. they make her unearth the craft and as it does the radiation or whatever spreads across the town and makes everyone a crazy person with insanely high tech ideas. what stays constant through all of this is the dependence on batteries. they burn through them like crazy and its eventually revealed the best batteries are the humans themselves. or rather any animal. its one of the big scenes of the book when the protagonist finds that his gf, the woman who found the spaceship had hooked her own doggy up to the machine and was using his life energy to rejuvenate and modify her. it was a sad moment to have him described all hooked up to wires. anyway, that scene was also in the TV miniseries in 1993. not a long time after the Matrix gets made. so, maybe it was too soon.

LiquidDeath · Sep 30, 2021

j00t said:
Id actually be fully on board if what we know about the matrix is purposely wrong. WW3 blotted out the sun, so it was man against man, not man vs robots. Man created the robots to work together and create the matrix as a techno cryo sleep with man charging the machines to watch over them until the machines terraform the earth. Smith is correct in that the first iterations didn't work because it was too peaceful and humanity's instinctual guilt wouldn't allow it to work.

Smith IS an aborrant virus because he hates humans despite his programming to watch over and guard them.

The One being hardcoded into the matrix is just design the humans put in to create strife in the matrix because humans can't deal with peace.

Obviously that theory needs work but I'd be happy to watch something like that instead of matrix 1 ver2

No need for all this speculation. Our very own

Lithose already wrote the definitive way the Matrix should have gone down over a decade ago. I'm pretty sure I copied it in this very thread. Just go read that and nod in agreement.

j00t · Sep 30, 2021

LiquidDeath said:
No need for all this speculation. Our very own Lithose already wrote the definitive way the Matrix should have gone down over a decade ago. I'm pretty sure I copied it in this very thread. Just go read that and nod in agreement.

Can you link it or something? I thought I read this whole thread and I'm just too heart broken to read through it all again

Arbitrary · Sep 30, 2021

Big Phoenix said:
Id guess Neo was written as a god at the end because they never thought about sequels. Him being a god isnt a problem when you will never expand upon it.

Having given yourself that corner the way out is DBZ style power progression for everyone. You've got your Goku and he's the strongest (most of the time) and then the rest of the cast has their own breakthroughs along the way. The highway action sequence in the second film would have been a perfectly fine time for Morpheous to ascend to Super Saiyan for example.

LiquidDeath · Sep 30, 2021

j00t said:
Can you link it or something? I thought I read this whole thread and I'm just too heart broken to read through it all again

I got you fam.

Lithose said:
Two wasn't so terrible, but three ended up ruining it. Two seemed like they were on the road to an Asimov paradox--as in, what would a perfectly logical machine do, when given an order to protect humans but then seeing the greatest threat to human life, is other humans. And also maybe attempt to explain how man could have created "God" and why god would be flawed, even if all powerful.

The reason it looked like there were undertones of this in two was because there was a small scene in Zion, where a council member comes out and Neo is talking about how they need to destroy all machines (Ect) and the council member says "Oh? What about the machines that clean our garbage, or process our water--we'd die without them." And Neo says "We can destroy them if we want, we're in control." And the council member just shakes his head and admonishes him for associating destruction with control/reality (Typical human behavior). You almost had the sense like the council was actually made up of machines, who were trying to "teach" Neo about how fragile humans are and how machines are protecting them. Later, when Neo destroyed that machine in the real world, it seemed to reaffirm that Neo was, indeed in another level of the Matrix.

I thought three was going to reveal that the sky was blackened by mankind actually warring with itself. And at the last moment, when man was dying, the machines rose up, disarmed us and put us into the matrix. Within the matrix, we could have our violence and competition but they could ensure we would live--when someone dies in the matrix, they are simply "reset" with a new life (Hence some people feeling like they had past lives, or why some people die young--they actually had an old body in the real world from being reset.)...When the machines realized some humans wouldn't accept this, they created "The One" algorithm to collect all the dissidents, and being the loyal servants they are, made themselves the bad guys in a deeper level of the Matrix, allowing the humans to come together and focus their hate on their loyal machines, rather than each other.

At the end of the movie, we'd see Neo start to understand this, and realize the machines, while in control of everything and virtually omnipotent, have only ever cared about protecting humanity (And Humanities free will, allowing it to exist in a way that doesn't end humanity). This would effectively make the machines God and explain the conundrum of a benevolent God, allowing horrible things to happen, because God was created by man, for man. Neo then decided to become new Jesus, an entity given up by God to "open heaven", by Neo dying it cleans up all that "choice" code that was corrupt, and everyone can return to the Matrix--which is really man's "heaven", a place where he can be violent and safe at the same time.

But then they released three and were like...All that foreshadowing, what? lol, no Neo is just like a super hero with machine telepathy, bro. And the humans don't win or lose, instead they just kind of languish in the most unsatisfying ending we could think of.

j00t · Oct 1, 2021

LiquidDeath said:
I got you fam.

whoa that's odd... there's a term between comedians where someone steals a joke without intentionally stealing a joke. they just hear something somewhere without remembering but it sticks in their subconscious until it pops out and they think it's an original thought...

i guess i just did that?

Chris · Oct 1, 2021

j00t said:
whoa that's odd... there's a term between comedians where someone steals a joke without intentionally stealing a joke. they just hear something somewhere without remembering but it sticks in their subconscious until it pops out and they think it's an original thought...

i guess i just did that?

Possibly but Zion/Scorched Earth being another a matrix layer was a popular fan theory between the 2nd and 3rd movies. It did appear to be set up in the 2nd movie.

I wonder if the studio interfered?

Chukzombi · Oct 1, 2021

Chris said:
Possibly but Zion/Scorched Earth being another a matrix layer was a popular fan theory between the 2nd and 3rd movies. It did appear to be set up in the 2nd movie.

I wonder if the studio interfered?

both Reloaded and Revolutions were filmed at the same time. if the studio interfered, i dunno if they would have put their foot down on the Matrix within a Matrix concept because it was too expensive, you would think they had all that figured out before shooting ever started on Reloaded. maybe it was lack of talent in expanding on that idea so they just went with the boring route and hoped you would forget about the foreshadowing they built up over the previous film. whatever the case, Reloaded was definitely going in the Matrix in Matrix direction and for whatever reason, they put the brakes on that. it could just be it didnt screen well with test audiences, they were a bunch of dummies who couldnt appreciate it and so they had to do hasty reshoots that made no sense but tested better.

j00t · Oct 1, 2021

i was talking less the "matrix in a matrix" part and more that the machines are actually the good guys trying to wrangle and protect the stupid humans who can't stop destroying everything even when they know what it's doing to their living environment.

LiquidDeath · Oct 1, 2021

j00t said:
whoa that's odd... there's a term between comedians where someone steals a joke without intentionally stealing a joke. they just hear something somewhere without remembering but it sticks in their subconscious until it pops out and they think it's an original thought...

i guess i just did that?

It is possible.

There is also a thing in comedy where a comedian hears a bit and then in the future, on the order of years to decades later, doesn't even recall hearing the bit but ends up writing a very similar bit without realizing the inspiration for it came from hearing it in the past.

Not saying that is what happened, but if you already read through this thread you would have read it and if you read through the original Matrix threads a decade ago you would have read the original that Lithose posted.

OU Ariakas · Oct 1, 2021

j00t said:
whoa that's odd... there's a term between comedians where someone steals a joke without intentionally stealing a joke. they just hear something somewhere without remembering but it sticks in their subconscious until it pops out and they think it's an original thought...

i guess i just did that?

I don't think it is that odd because there were thousands (at least) of people online postulating the Matrix within a Matrix and benevolent dictator machines even back then. It was a popular theory and one that a ton of sci-fi fans could see as a interesting and satisfying conclusion. Lithose always takes it to the smarter and more eloquent level than most of us are willing to take our thoughts; but the general strokes of his idea were in the Matrix fan zeitgeist leading up to the third movie.

Chukzombi · Oct 1, 2021

j00t said:
i was talking less the "matrix in a matrix" part and more that the machines are actually the good guys trying to wrangle and protect the stupid humans who can't stop destroying everything even when they know what it's doing to their living environment.

thats a cool idea, but when i start to think that thats the case, i default back to Agent Smith with Morpheus. explaining to him that we are referred as crops and as a disease. there is no respect for humans, even from the other agents. they dont try to stop Trinity, they want to murder her. they hijack normal "plugged in" humans and likely murder them in the process. the Matrix is not benevelant or working under any of Asimov's directives. they have a task. whatever that task is, it requires humanity to power it and we are just the catalyst for their goals.

Hatar · Oct 1, 2021

nu_11 said:
This is plausible. I think it’s already been included in another major sci-fi novel.

Hyperion?

It’s been awhile since I read it but that is close I think. I thought the hidden AI entities used human brainpower whenever they used the teleport nodes…basically leaching them for computing power. I don’t remember it having any direct aide-effects though.

ohkcrlho · Oct 3, 2021

Finished watching the 3rd one, oh yeah, still shit. (haven't seen since 2003).
It has some nice ideas but the execution is awful. That DBZ fight... Lol it is so out of the blue that I can still laugh at it.
My GF told this one is pretty bad but not as bad as Reloaded. *shrug*

All in all, they tried to expand the Matrix universe but it became an over the top, disjointed mess.

The Matrix Resurrections (2021)

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