The NSA watches you poop.

BoldW

Molten Core Raider
2,081
25
The article doesn't mention anything regarding the constitutionality, just that it represents a counter-punch to al-queda (by punching American citizens, apparently) so we should keep doing it.
 

chaos

Buzzfeed Editor
17,324
4,839
I haven't had time to actually read it, but it looks like the judge basically just said yeah they responded to a new threat, it is legal, if you don't like it then take it up with Congress and El Jefe.
 

Malakriss

Golden Baronet of the Realm
12,346
11,737
There's a difference between "lawful" and "authorized" and that's what the new judge is clarifying. Even if it's lawful Congress still has to authorize agencies to do it, otherwise it'd be illegal but not unconstitutional. It'll take 2 years to go to the supreme court where they'll say it's legit but everyone will cherry pick districts with favorable judges to try and get a lawsuit in before then.

Snowden would have been taken a lot more seriously if he did this to a major commercial and advertising company, but it's just status quo for governments. Maybe they'll get some rulings that impact the whole copyright troll industry out of this but that's it.
 

Flight

Molten Core Raider
1,229
285

Eorkern

Bronze Squire
1,090
5
Wow.. Wow.. This shit is gonna cost you so much, I know not every other country is "unguilty" on this but I'm so glad there is something that huge to force action from the executive branch as they don't care about the people but only about corporation. Will there be something done in practice is another problem...
 

khalid

Unelected Mod
14,071
6,775
The bottom line seems to be this:
"But the question of whether that program should be conducted is for the other two coordinate branches of government to decide."
The judge is an idiot. It is the direct responsibility of the judiciary to decide if mass collection is really kosher under the 4th amendment.

It is despicable that even this long after 9/11 we still have people essentially saying anything is justified as long as it is "against terrorists".
 

iannis

Musty Nester
31,351
17,656
That does very much seem like a judge sidestepping the issue entirely. Shit is above his paygrade, I guess.

Which is probably what the Supreme Court will do. If they take the case at all it will be to interject some minor point about method -- not to tackle and repudiate the practice itself as unconstitutional.

I lost all hope of anything else with their eminent domain ruling. That was these same justices. (Edit: Actually I guess 1 has changed -- but that's still not enough to matter). This is just intellectual ED.

heh. heh. Erectile Dysfunction.

Bob Dole knows.
 

Big Phoenix

Pronouns: zie/zhem/zer
<Gold Donor>
44,660
93,337
That does very much seem like a judge sidestepping the issue entirely. Shit is above his paygrade, I guess.

Which is probably what the Supreme Court will do. If they take the case at all it will be to interject some minor point about method -- not to tackle and repudiate the practice itself as unconstitutional.

I lost all hope of anything else with their eminent domain ruling. That was these same justices. (Edit: Actually I guess 1 has changed -- but that's still not enough to matter). This is just intellectual ED.

heh. heh. Erectile Dysfunction.

Bob Dole knows.
Judiciary is full of worthless scum.
 

Big Phoenix

Pronouns: zie/zhem/zer
<Gold Donor>
44,660
93,337
Big Phoenix is slowly turning into a General Anthony ^^
NSA reportedly intercepting laptops purchased online to install spy malware | The Verge

I DIDNT WATCH MY BUDDIES DIE FACE DOWN IN THE SAND TO LIVE THROUGH THIS 1984 BULLSHIT

WalterSobchak.png
 

fanaskin

Well known agitator
<Silver Donator>
55,854
137,953
Top Stories - Judges Clash over Whether NSA Phone Data Collection is Lawful - AllGov - News

Judge Leon wrote:

?On June 5, 2013, the British newspaper The Guardian reported the first of several ?leaks? of classified material from Edward Snowden, a former NSA contract employee, which have revealed ? multiple U.S. government intelligence collection and surveillance programs? [including] a FISC order ? compelling [telecoms] to produce to the NSA on ?an ongoing daily basis? ... ?telephony metadata? created by [them].? According to the news article, this order ?show[ed] . . . that under the Obama administration the communication records of millions of US citizens are being collected indiscriminately and in bulk-regardless of whether they are suspected of any wrongdoing.?

Judge Pauley:

?The September 11th terrorist attacks revealed ? just how dangerous and interconnected the world is. While Americans depended on technology for the conveniences of modernity, al-Qaeda plotted in a seventh-century milieu to use that technology against us ? and it succeeded because conventional intelligence gathering could not detect diffuse filaments connecting al-Qaeda.?

That factual issue?whether the indiscriminate seizure of American telephony metadata is necessary or even contributes to national security?was the source of conflict as well. Judge Pauley followed his introduction about 9/11 with an endorsement of the government?s position that domestic spying has helped disrupt bomb plots against the New York subways, the New York Stock Exchange and a Danish newspaper. Devoting considerable space to the case of Khalid al-Mihdhar, a 9/11 hijacker who was living in San Diego in 2001, Pauley wrote that ?NSA analysts concluded mistakenly that al-Mihdhar was overseas and not in the United States,? but that ?telephony metadata ? might have permitted the NSA to notify the Federal Bureau of Investigation of the fact that al-Mihdhar was calling the Yemeni safe house from inside the United States,? and possibly foiled the 9/11 attack.

Judge Leon, however, found two weeks ago that the program did not help the government fight terrorism, concluding that ?the government does not cite a single instance in which analysis of the NSA?s bulk metadata collection actually stopped an imminent attack, or otherwise aided the government in achieving any objective that was time-sensitive in nature.?

Ironically for Judge Pauley and the Obama administration, the President?s own NSA presidential review panel released a report in mid-December debunking reliance on the al-Mihdhar case and concluding that the spying ?was not essential to preventing attacks,? and could be safely replaced with less intrusive methods. The panel findings came after ProPublica reported in June that U.S. intelligence knew al-Mihdhar?s identity ?long before 9/11 and had the ability find him, but they failed to do so.?


The judges disagreed on the law as well, in particular the 1979 Supreme Court case of Smith v. Maryland, which the Obama administration and the FISC have cited to find the spying program constitutional. In Smith, the court held a suspected purse-snatcher, who had been threatening his victim via telephone calls, had no reasonable expectation that his right to privacy extended to the numbers dialed from his phone, which police had obtained from the phone company without a warrant.

According to Judge Pauley, ?Smith?s bedrock holding is that an individual has no legitimate expectation of privacy in information provided to third parties,? hence the government can seize records of every phone call made by every American without a warrant or indeed any suspicion of wrongdoing. Rejecting suggestions that technological changes since 1979?when rotary phones were still more widely used than touch tone models?made any difference to the law, Pauley wrote that customers? ?relationship with their telecommunications providers has not changed? since 1979. Pauley nevertheless admitted that the collection program, ?if unchecked, imperils the civil liberties of every citizen.?


Judge Leon, however, ruled that Smith no longer applies in the digital age, writing that ?present-day circumstances?the evolutions in the Government?s surveillance capabilities, citizens? phone habits, and the relationship between the NSA and telecom companies?[have] become so thoroughly unlike those considered by the Supreme Court thirty-four years ago that ? Smith does not apply.? In reaching that conclusion, Leon was following the leads of the presidential review panel, which questioned whether Smith was ?still good law,? and two recent Supreme Court opinions that have raised the same issue.
 

Kaosu

Bronze Knight of the Realm
232
2
Eh, I read that article and I wasn't too surprised. I know there are devices that have logging devices embedded in them and have been talked about for some years now. USB cables makes a certain amount of sense. Generally, with a few exceptions, the 'back doors' thats usually talked about is NSA-certified or involved encryption that they've implemented a back-door on that a number of companies employ. Reversing on how they were in the 90s, they've started working with companies in joint ventures that allowed them to slip in back doors in those products and by other companies adopting certain security standards (like RSA products for example) the back doors are passed along to other companies' products as well.
 

fanaskin

Well known agitator
<Silver Donator>
55,854
137,953
from what's been released Compiled list of Nsa program codenames and what the programs do


http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/...9BU0IP20131231

Obama??Ts Defining Fight: How He Will Take On the NSA??Ts Surveillance State in 2014 - The Daily Beast

Before he left for Hawaii, the president was sending signals that government surveillance programs need an overhaul to restore the public's faith on issues of national security.
The overall motive is a little suspect but it's better than nothing I guess
'We have to change the perception among our citizens that the intelligence agencies can't be trusted.'
 

Dyvim

Bronze Knight of the Realm
1,420
195
They cant be trusted, 'cause they are intelligenca agencies and work in secret, ffs.
Heck if you go for a walk and find on your return home someone working on it "in secret" you dont trustingly invite him in for a drink or two; no you shoot that fucker first and ask questions later. Same should applied here.