The Paranormal, UFO's, and Mysteries of the Unknown

Void

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I think Chuk is maybe getting a bit too much flak over this because he was simply responding to me. Granted, Chuk can handle his own defense, but still, I'm far more skeptical than he probably is. And I'll try to answer these questions a little.

The question of "What would convince me, if everything can be faked?" is a hard one to answer, obviously. Clearly if I saw an actual landing with aliens stepping out, in person, I'd have a hard time explaining that away and would likely believe it in the absence of hallucinogenic drugs. But since they probably won't land where I can see them, I'd say that a "mass" sighting that is broadcast LIVE on multiple networks and multiple thousands of streamers at the very same time, showing what appears to be an alien craft with alien beings coming out of it, and the Emergency Alert System broadcasting nationwide that there is a national emergency would go a long way towards making me believe.

You might say that this is extraordinary proof, but given that so many people purposely "troll" for attention, even before trolling was a term, I don't think I'm being unfair. Thousands of people go on shows like Dr. Phil, Jerry Springer, etc. to confess about things that make them look like complete idiots, and even when they know that is how they will look, they still do it because they get to be on TV. Maybe you and I would never do something that retarded, but millions of people would. So it is hard for me to put my belief in any random person that I've never met giving an eyewitness account, because I don't know if they are one of those attention seekers, or simply mistaken, or actually saw what they say they saw. And that simply mistaken part covers the vast majority of people that aren't actively attention-seeking. People can't give reliable accounts of witnessing the exact same incident that doesn't involve extraordinary events.

So then we get to "video evidence" which should weed out most of the trolls or mistaken people, right? Chuk addressed much of that already, and I won't go over it all again, but again to summarize my thoughts, when confronted by an unknown situation, my first thought is to think of all the things it could be and begin eliminating them. Unfortunately, tons of people jump right to the least believable or likely choice instead of the most likely. Many people WANT to believe. To be honest, I WANT there to be aliens as well, although I realize that meeting them might literally be the last thing any of us ever do. But if there is always some way to explain it away as "possible", then why is that a bad thing? Why is it bad to be skeptical of literally the most extraordinary claims someone could ever make, short of perhaps Baby Jesus returning? Like I said, people want to believe. I have about a dozen women on my Facebook feed right now that I thought were fairly rational people in high school, who now believe that Essential Oils cure everything, or that vaccines are bad for you, or that anything GMO is causing cancer, etc. Those are claims that can easily be researched, and they still believe them completely because some Foodbabe cunt said so, or their multi-level-marketing crook told them they can win a Mercedes if they only sell more, etc. So of course people will easily believe the flimsiest evidence in terms of aliens, bigfoot, etc. There are people that give photographic "proof" of metallic fibers growing from their bodies, and thousands of people believe them despite the fact that no doctor backs them up. And then when one doctor does, for whatever reason, they cling to that like a drowning man. Hell, two girls I work with insist that humans are too stupid to create things like microwaves and computers, and that the only logical explanation is that aliens have been giving us technological help. Why would I ever believe anything they claim to have witnessed? They are predisposed to believe extraordinary claims over reasonable claims. Sure, that is anecdotal evidence, but it isn't crazy to think there are more like them.

Which brings me to the "credible" people making claims that they have seen things or were part of secret projects. Sure, maybe they are telling the truth. But again, people think they are telling the truth all the time, and they aren't. Other people blatantly lie for attention/fame. And other people are truly messed up and see things that are not there. To me, it is more likely to be one of those things than that they are finally "shining a light on the truth" and that aliens and/or their technology is being hidden by practically every world government. I don't think that's a bad position for someone to take, but maybe that's one of those glass half-full/half-empty things. And maybe I am overly dismissive of the half-full people, so I'll admit to that. But just because someone is in an important position or has an important job, that doesn't mean they are any more or less credible than someone else. Hell, our politicians are some of the least credible people in existence. Again, it isn't completely unbelievable that someone that is an esteemed scientist or military officer or any other "respected" position is maybe more likely to believe extraordinary claims or attach extraordinary conclusions to debatable events or evidence. Again, there are plenty of people in all walks of life that believe things most of us do not. Without even jumping to something like Climate Change, plenty of scientists disagree with other scientists about things that should be based on evidence. We should have had cold fusion decades ago if scientists were always trustworthy in what they said.

Anyway, I'm repeating myself. Sorry about that. My TL;DR point being, I don't think it is wrong to be skeptical and require extraordinary proof when the subject is something that is, quite possibly, one of the most earth-shattering subjects in existence if true. This isn't making a claim that someone stole your car. This is making a claim that fucking ALIENS are real. So I'm going to need more than reasonable doubt, so to speak.
 
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Chukzombi

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I think Chuk is maybe getting a bit too much flak over this because he was simply responding to me. Granted, Chuk can handle his own defense, but still, I'm far more skeptical than he probably is. And I'll try to answer these questions a little.

The question of "What would convince me, if everything can be faked?" is a hard one to answer, obviously. Clearly if I saw an actual landing with aliens stepping out, in person, I'd have a hard time explaining that away and would likely believe it in the absence of hallucinogenic drugs. But since they probably won't land where I can see them, I'd say that a "mass" sighting that is broadcast LIVE on multiple networks and multiple thousands of streamers at the very same time, showing what appears to be an alien craft with alien beings coming out of it, and the Emergency Alert System broadcasting nationwide that there is a national emergency would go a long way towards making me believe.

You might say that this is extraordinary proof, but given that so many people purposely "troll" for attention, even before trolling was a term, I don't think I'm being unfair. Thousands of people go on shows like Dr. Phil, Jerry Springer, etc. to confess about things that make them look like complete idiots, and even when they know that is how they will look, they still do it because they get to be on TV. Maybe you and I would never do something that retarded, but millions of people would. So it is hard for me to put my belief in any random person that I've never met giving an eyewitness account, because I don't know if they are one of those attention seekers, or simply mistaken, or actually saw what they say they saw. And that simply mistaken part covers the vast majority of people that aren't actively attention-seeking. People can't give reliable accounts of witnessing the exact same incident that doesn't involve extraordinary events.

So then we get to "video evidence" which should weed out most of the trolls or mistaken people, right? Chuk addressed much of that already, and I won't go over it all again, but again to summarize my thoughts, when confronted by an unknown situation, my first thought is to think of all the things it could be and begin eliminating them. Unfortunately, tons of people jump right to the least believable or likely choice instead of the most likely. Many people WANT to believe. To be honest, I WANT there to be aliens as well, although I realize that meeting them might literally be the last thing any of us ever do. But if there is always some way to explain it away as "possible", then why is that a bad thing? Why is it bad to be skeptical of literally the most extraordinary claims someone could ever make, short of perhaps Baby Jesus returning? Like I said, people want to believe. I have about a dozen women on my Facebook feed right now that I thought were fairly rational people in high school, who now believe that Essential Oils cure everything, or that vaccines are bad for you, or that anything GMO is causing cancer, etc. Those are claims that can easily be researched, and they still believe them completely because some Foodbabe cunt said so, or their multi-level-marketing crook told them they can win a Mercedes if they only sell more, etc. So of course people will easily believe the flimsiest evidence in terms of aliens, bigfoot, etc. There are people that give photographic "proof" of metallic fibers growing from their bodies, and thousands of people believe them despite the fact that no doctor backs them up. And then when one doctor does, for whatever reason, they cling to that like a drowning man. Hell, two girls I work with insist that humans are too stupid to create things like microwaves and computers, and that the only logical explanation is that aliens have been giving us technological help. Why would I ever believe anything they claim to have witnessed? They are predisposed to believe extraordinary claims over reasonable claims. Sure, that is anecdotal evidence, but it isn't crazy to think there are more like them.

Which brings me to the "credible" people making claims that they have seen things or were part of secret projects. Sure, maybe they are telling the truth. But again, people think they are telling the truth all the time, and they aren't. Other people blatantly lie for attention/fame. And other people are truly messed up and see things that are not there. To me, it is more likely to be one of those things than that they are finally "shining a light on the truth" and that aliens and/or their technology is being hidden by practically every world government. I don't think that's a bad position for someone to take, but maybe that's one of those glass half-full/half-empty things. And maybe I am overly dismissive of the half-full people, so I'll admit to that. But just because someone is in an important position or has an important job, that doesn't mean they are any more or less credible than someone else. Hell, our politicians are some of the least credible people in existence. Again, it isn't completely unbelievable that someone that is an esteemed scientist or military officer or any other "respected" position is maybe more likely to believe extraordinary claims or attach extraordinary conclusions to debatable events or evidence. Again, there are plenty of people in all walks of life that believe things most of us do not. Without even jumping to something like Climate Change, plenty of scientists disagree with other scientists about things that should be based on evidence. We should have had cold fusion decades ago if scientists were always trustworthy in what they said.

Anyway, I'm repeating myself. Sorry about that. My TL;DR point being, I don't think it is wrong to be skeptical and require extraordinary proof when the subject is something that is, quite possibly, one of the most earth-shattering subjects in existence if true. This isn't making a claim that someone stole your car. This is making a claim that fucking ALIENS are real. So I'm going to need more than reasonable doubt, so to speak.
yep, this reminds me very much of the people who not only believe, but they KNOW there is a bigfoot out there. and they base this on debunked evidence and when shown the debunked evidence is debunked, they wave it all away as if it didnt matter in the first place. people literally WANT to believe and so they do. when it comes to Ancient Civs, i want to believe, but i make sure to get myself out of the echo chamber and watch some more grounded in reality videos to counter it. Science channel has been doing incredible work for the last year on ancient and lost civilization documentaries. Unearthed, Secrets of The Lost, What On Earth?, Strange Evidence, etc. they show so many Ancient Egypt videos that their main sponsor is Egypt's tourism bureau.
i think this was linked before, but it needs to be linked again.

i dont agree with all the counterpoints, but thats fine, there needs to be a healthy balance of disbelief for every side. the bigger the claim, the bigger the disbelief should be.
 
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Void

BAU BAU
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Please stop associating UFOs with little green men / aliens.
Fair enough.

Can I include anti-grav technology in that though? Because that's what is being claimed on a lot of this stuff in relation to government-funded explanations. And there is literally no evidence whatsoever that we have any type of anti-grav technology, or similar technology that would allow a manned object to perform the maneuvers shown in some of the videos. And in terms of un-manned, there is no propulsion technology in evidence anywhere in the world that would allow for those maneuvers either.

You might claim that there is evidence of such things, but replace all my talk of aliens in the above with "secret government technology" and specifically apply it to anti-grav or instant start-and-stop propulsion then, and you'll get what amounts to the same exact argument from me.

I completely believe, without evidence, that the government hides things from us. But even if I didn't know a thing or two about aeronautics, I'd still need more than just visual sightings of unknown objects doing strange things to believe in the existence of such advanced technology without even a hint of it being in use somewhere else. Until I see an official release of an official video showing an aircraft doing similar things, I see no reason to speculate that it actually exists and is just being kept hidden because the Chinese might steal it. There is no anti-grav or instant start-and-stop propulsion technology as far as I'm concerned. I'd love for someone to prove me wrong. Can they, though?
 
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TJT

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I think the most interesting part of the Frisland map thing was that the island had cities and shit on the map on it. Frisland was ubiquitous on maps for only one century from what he says 1560-1660.

The idea here is that Frisland was submerged 12k years ago during the Young Dryas. Why did it end up on maps only in the 16th century after death? Keep in mind that Greek Hisotrians were aware of the Cornish Isles (sometimes referred to as the Tin Islands because that is what they traded for there) even during Herodotus' time. Given during that period the Cornish Isles were somewhat, "myth" even to the Greeks of that period.

It is well known that the British Isles have been inhabited for more than 20k years.
 

Chukzombi

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I think the most interesting part of the Frisland map thing was that the island had cities and shit on the map on it. Frisland was ubiquitous on maps for only one century from what he says 1560-1660.

The idea here is that Frisland was submerged 12k years ago during the Young Dryas. Why did it end up on maps only in the 16th century after death? Keep in mind that Greek Hisotrians were aware of the Cornish Isles (sometimes referred to as the Tin Islands because that is what they traded for there) even during Herodotus' time. Given during that period the Cornish Isles were somewhat, "myth" even to the Greeks of that period.

it is well known that the British Isles have been inhabited for more than 20k years.
I think the theory is that its basically that the people contracted to make maps were using much older (and possibly more inaccurate) maps for reference. Then others with no other reference started copycatting those maps for their maps. Eventually shit gets a big update, especially around that time when you have a boom in travel by sea because of New World opportunities. this happens even today with news stories. an outlier story goes out, then others share it until eventually the real story comes out and then its too late because everyone believes the old bullshit story. I'm not saying thats what happened here, but there clearly are times in our history where people believed a bunch of bullshit that was being fed to them by scholars.
 

Chukzombi

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Thats one of the reasons i get so pissed off at these Ancient Aliens shows. you got these artifacts of strange looking creatures and objects thousands of years old and these AA guys are pointing to them as, "yup aliens" or they use some old drawing to prove that ancients civs had jets and rockets and even fucking Apache helicopters.
Heli-Hyrp-641465.jpg

i know studying ancient civs can be boring and very mundane at times, but its things like this that probably piss off the gatekeeper science world from taking any other theories seriously.
 

Chris

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I think the most interesting part of the Frisland map thing was that the island had cities and shit on the map on it. Frisland was ubiquitous on maps for only one century from what he says 1560-1660.

The idea here is that Frisland was submerged 12k years ago during the Young Dryas. Why did it end up on maps only in the 16th century after death? Keep in mind that Greek Hisotrians were aware of the Cornish Isles (sometimes referred to as the Tin Islands because that is what they traded for there) even during Herodotus' time. Given during that period the Cornish Isles were somewhat, "myth" even to the Greeks of that period.

It is well known that the British Isles have been inhabited for more than 20k years.
I really like the theory, but it's stretching credibility to have such a massive landmass sink so recently. How far below the sea is it compared to Doggerland I wonder? Doggerland could be Atlantis.

The map thing also just looks like a mistake compiling old maps together and duplicating somewhere like Iceland or enlarging a Scottish island, with other map makers copying the mistake.
 

TJT

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I really like the theory, but it's stretching credibility to have such a massive landmass sink so recently. How far below the sea is it compared to Doggerland I wonder? Doggerland could be Atlantis.

The map thing also just looks like a mistake compiling old maps together and duplicating somewhere like Iceland or enlarging a Scottish island, with other map makers copying the mistake.

I like the Doggerland idea too. But it is missing the key component of advanced society. Which is why I like Santorini/Thyra the most. It had it all. Advanced society relative to the rest of civilization known at that time, refugees among the other isles that spread their language and culture after the volcano destroyed their civilization. The Greeks we know of called their language the language of the True Greeks that came before them.

Their culture wasn't totally lost and was eventually assimilated into Hellenic Greece and many artifacts remain. As they were on Crete and a few other islands of the Aegean sea. The volcano in 1600 BC gives it a time frame that would have it eek its way into the historical record easier.

They had advanced artwork, textile factories, multi storied palaces, and other things. I mean its not as fantastic as other theories but it does have a strong basis in realism. It also feeds into the Greek Dark Ages period which would add further wonder and mystery towards, "Atlantis."
 
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Chris

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I like the Doggerland idea too. But it is missing the key component of advanced society. Which is why I like Santorini/Thyra the most. It had it all. Advanced society relative to the rest of civilization known at that time, refugees among the other isles that spread their language and culture after the volcano destroyed their civilization. The Greeks we know of called their language the language of the True Greeks that came before them.

Their culture wasn't totally lost and was eventually assimilated into Hellenic Greece and many artifacts remain. As they were on Crete and a few other islands of the Aegean sea. The volcano in 1600 BC gives it a time frame that would have it eek its way into the historical record easier.

They had advanced artwork, textile factories, multi storied palaces, and other things. I mean its not as fantastic as other theories but it does have a strong basis in realism. It also feeds into the Greek Dark Ages period which would add further wonder and mystery towards, "Atlantis."
Yeah I've heard the Thera theory before, that's an interesting possibility too which makes a lot of sense. It doesn't fit Plato saying that Atlantis was out past the "Pillars of Hercules" though which is meant to be the Stright of Gibraltar or possibly even The Bospherus.

In the Ancient Archetects video he quickly mentioned The Azores being an option, which is in a straight line past Gibraltar.

It'd be hilarious if it never existed though, after people spent so long speculating.
 

TJT

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Even if it veritably never existed. I still enjoy the fantasy of it.
 
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Chris

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Even if it veritably never existed. I still enjoy the fantasy of it.
That's exactly it for me.

I love history and astronomy. I don't belive any of this shit but I love reading the theories.
 
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MusicForFish

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Thats one of the reasons i get so pissed off at these Ancient Aliens shows. you got these artifacts of strange looking creatures and objects thousands of years old and these AA guys are pointing to them as, "yup aliens" or they use some old drawing to prove that ancients civs had jets and rockets and even fucking Apache helicopters.
Heli-Hyrp-641465.jpg

i know studying ancient civs can be boring and very mundane at times, but its things like this that probably piss off the gatekeeper science world from taking any other theories seriously.


Upper right

hero.png
 
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Hekotat

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I was an emotional wreck after 9/11 happened (shattered my world view). We we're drinking alot in my tiny home town after it had happened and decided to go for a drive. I remember it being a really starry night, no clouds with tons of visibility.

All of a sudden something flew over us, making no sound. It was gigantic and you could see it's outline against the stars but otherwise we couldn't tell what it was. It was also going very, very fast. Needless to say I was freaking out, and all night we had no idea wtf it could be and it was really fucking with me so close to 9/11.

The next morning we are watching the news and it turns out a damn satellite fell out of orbit and landed right across the border in Oklahoma.

That's my only real ufo story.
 
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Chukzombi

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Prehistoric art hints at lost Indian civilisation

"Our first deduction from examining these petroglyphs is that they were created around 10,000BC," the director of the Maharashtra state archaeology department, Tejas Garge, told the BBC.
"Most of the petroglyphs show familiar animals. There are images of sharks and whales as well as amphibians like turtles," Mr Garge adds.

But this begs the question of why some of the petroglyphs depict animals like rhinoceroses and hippos which aren't found in India. Did the people who created them migrate to India from Africa? Or were these animals once found in India?
_103477394_18katalshilp.jpg

_103477344_05katalshilp1.jpg

_103477392_17katalshilppig.jpg

_103477346_11katalshilp.jpg

_103477396_26katalshilp.jpg
 
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Himeo

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The reason no one ever found Atlantis is because it didn't sink. Check out the "Eye of the Sahara" and compare it to the description of Atlantis. It fits perfectly.

Unfortunately, it's a thousand feet above sea level and in the middle of the fucking Sahara desert.
 

Chukzombi

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The reason no one ever found Atlantis is because it didn't sink. Check out the "Eye of the Sahara" and compare it to the description of Atlantis. It fits perfectly.

Unfortunately, it's a thousand feet above sea level and in the middle of the fucking Sahara desert.
we have been discussing the Richat Structure for a few weeks, its an interesting anomaly. but until it's excavated we have to just toss it on the maybe pile for now. thats assuming Atlantis was really a thing. i think it was, but we cant know for sure. we may never knoow.
 

TJT

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I think the error a lot of people have is scale. I expect Atlantis to be advanced for the period. Like they may have had an advanced writing system, architecture, crafting and so on before when our historical narrative likes to start. The idea that Mesopotamia was the first is just not accurate. A lot of the historical narrative we get is extremely inaccurate. I do not believe that Atlantis was some hyperadvanced society hitherto never seen on this earth.

That being said, the Richat structure is yuge and impractical for the design they claim Atlantis had. Just look at cities that came thousands of years later.

This is the cothon port of Carthage in the present day compared to how it is imagined and drawn. This is one of the better ones. This is one of the biggest artificial ports in history for over a thousand years. But Atlantis was supposedly a city of 25 mile wide centric rings? That part is not reasonable to me.

24e030b567f2093366c25632e22742bf.jpg


Compared to:

zBL03CJ.jpg
 
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