The Sad, sad, state of MMORPG in this brave new era...
- Thread starter Ukerric
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Kreugen
Vyemm Raider
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Hell, the only reason I retreat to a MMO is I get annoyed with simply finding the next game to play. I'll go through a half dozen 9/10 overrated piles of shit just to find something that is good, only to get some % into it before I lose interest.
Reviews aren't helpful at all. Tomb Raider is a top game of the decade and its ranked the same as fucking Gone Home or something made with RPGMaker.
Which isn't to say a game must have a Michael Bay budget. I loved Guaccamelee. But spending time with a game that is just "okay" makes you feel like you are missing out on some great piece of ass somewhere.
Speaking of, blew through the 3 newer Wolfenstein games. Dumped Nier and Nioh in the trash. (huge letdowns after the prologues)
Also spent 2 months doing all the story/dungeon/raids in FF14 from 2.1 onwards and winning the game.
The last PVP game I was hooked on was BF4, but I feel like I invested so much into it that I can give that genre a rest.
Reviews aren't helpful at all. Tomb Raider is a top game of the decade and its ranked the same as fucking Gone Home or something made with RPGMaker.
Which isn't to say a game must have a Michael Bay budget. I loved Guaccamelee. But spending time with a game that is just "okay" makes you feel like you are missing out on some great piece of ass somewhere.
Speaking of, blew through the 3 newer Wolfenstein games. Dumped Nier and Nioh in the trash. (huge letdowns after the prologues)
Also spent 2 months doing all the story/dungeon/raids in FF14 from 2.1 onwards and winning the game.
The last PVP game I was hooked on was BF4, but I feel like I invested so much into it that I can give that genre a rest.
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Siliconemelons
Avatar of War Slayer
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Right, I understand people liking this and that - what I am saying is that a X spec war IS a "class" and a Y spec warrior is a different slightly "class" - they each should kinda be their own thing- all gradients within "class archetypes" - but the way WoW essentially makes any class almost be able to do anything is stupid and destroys character attachment.
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ZyyzYzzy
RIP USA
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That's why I liked vanilla WoW. Want to play a feral druid instead of healing, fine, but you will be shamed
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Siliconemelons
Avatar of War Slayer
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The OG talent trees were WoW's answer to EQ2 (and kinda EQ) and their 30 classes.
Well a blackguard is a rouge but slightly different in this and this aspect- while a swashbuckler is also the same but different...
A Mage is a wizard but a conjurer is also a wizard but not a mage, enchanter is also a wizard but a mixed school of magic and how they work with groups while a beguiler is the same but not.
QQ I started as a wizard but I want to be a mage so now I re roll..
WOW says! Well choose your "base" then your "tree" and that is your "slightly different but the same" while still having individuality and if you dont like it- the cost to change it is small at first, but then is harsh once you get to the "you should be what you want by now"
Now its "QQ Blizzard, I as a shaman should be able to tank 90% as well as a warrior and dps 90% as well as a this, and that etc etc" "Druid here! me2plox" - "Praladan man here, I should tank dps and heal fuckers!"
Well a blackguard is a rouge but slightly different in this and this aspect- while a swashbuckler is also the same but different...
A Mage is a wizard but a conjurer is also a wizard but not a mage, enchanter is also a wizard but a mixed school of magic and how they work with groups while a beguiler is the same but not.
QQ I started as a wizard but I want to be a mage so now I re roll..
WOW says! Well choose your "base" then your "tree" and that is your "slightly different but the same" while still having individuality and if you dont like it- the cost to change it is small at first, but then is harsh once you get to the "you should be what you want by now"
Now its "QQ Blizzard, I as a shaman should be able to tank 90% as well as a warrior and dps 90% as well as a this, and that etc etc" "Druid here! me2plox" - "Praladan man here, I should tank dps and heal fuckers!"
Chris
Potato del Grande
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Only one I haven't played is Legion. Is it significant better now?
Warlords was on rails and Cataclysm was the ground zero of rails. Pandaria was fine though.
Noodleface
A Mod Real Quick
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Namon
Blackwing Lair Raider
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The entire paradigm of MMOs and how they are designed is their biggest hold back. They aren't just online, for many, primarily the base of the fans they have left, the Massively Multiplayer part is what can't be changed, yet that is the part that needs changing. MMOs struggle because you have to have a certain amount of each class type to do anything. You have to have healers and tanks, classes that the majority of people have no desire to play. I was secretly wish that they'd do an open world Diablo. Have the size and scope of a WoW, but use the same class/party dynamics of Diablo. That way people can just jump in and start playing. Either solo or with a group, where any combination of classes will work. The holy trinity thing is just well beyond its welcome. It works for WoW, because it's established, but I don't think any new property has a chance. Thus why Titan became a shooter versus the MMO it originally was being designed to be.
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Chris
Potato del Grande
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Problem is that if you drop the support classes like tank or healer, or even party buffs to avoid that problem - then why have your game even be multiplayer?
Every class being like Druids with options for everything could work but then why have different classes?
It's a hard problem to solve.
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Umm, thats what mmos set out to be though, class interdependence, group play inside of a persistent world. Teaming up to kill formidable foes dungeon crawling. Have different classes with different predefined roles to garner that interdependence inside of group play. I mean whats the point to all of it if everyone can just jump on into a lobby and "solo" inside of a group in some instance? Go play Diablo or PoE then, bro, no one is stopping you. Or any of the shooters that do just that if thats more of your liking.
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Malakriss
Golden Baronet of the Realm
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Everything from different classes to different loot types to lockouts and scarcity is there to sell you the idea that you need to keep playing something that would otherwise be done in a month or two and go stale. Devs don't even try to deliver "buttloads of new content" at a rate to keep people subbed all year, they do just enough fluff and recycling with each patch to stretch it out. Let the grinders and collectors do their thing and fleece where able to make up for the rest who game hop for new and entertaining things.
Khane
Got something right about marriage
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They don't let grinders and collectors do their thing. They artificially block the rewards behind time gates that you cannot grind around. Even if you wanted to you can't. That's how they stretch out content as well, make them log in each day to get 1/60th of the necessary reputation for the reward they want. And that's the only way they can get that reputation.
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BAH, mmorpgs had plenty of content to keep people engaged for months if not years. I know of people that played EQ for a few years and never had a end game character. Same with WoW in the beginning, took weeks, some even months to get to end. Btu this was already ruined with WoW because the problem became when things shifted, sometime around Late EQ Kunark or maybe Velious is my guess, to "end Game" so now everyone just wanted to rush past the grand tutorial of lv 1-50 or 70 or 85 or wehatever the fuck the cap is and then the "real game" starts. Thats where mmorpgs went wrong IMO. And WoW basically started already with this mindset in 2004. They need to get back to the entire fucking game, lv 1-cap mattering and being fun again, also design like 80% of the content for group play. Because thats where the core of the market is. They want to log on, have a few adventures with a few friends. Not make grand raiding parties of 40-100 people to kill some one dragon and 1/100 chance at a piece of loot. Now dont get me wrong, raids are cool and should be a part of it all, just not the main focus.
Sadly I think people are so preconditioned to "end game" and RAIIIID mentality, that no matter what the devs do in future games, they will never break the mmorpg players from this mindset.
Sadly I think people are so preconditioned to "end game" and RAIIIID mentality, that no matter what the devs do in future games, they will never break the mmorpg players from this mindset.
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Chysamere
<WoW Guild Officer>
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Fucking feral druid took the first Drake Fang Talisman from me that dropped for our guild and it was like our 30th kill.
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Like take wow for an example today, why even have the 1-100 game anymore? Its essentially a lobby game now. Log on, hit instance button, rinse and repeat. Even servers dont matter anymore. And yeah, jack offs will come and tell me, no, we still have daily quests and shit, lul, but its essentially what it is when you boil it all down.
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Namon
Blackwing Lair Raider
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This too. Raiding kind of ruined the genre for me. I don't want to discount those who enjoy raiding as this entire site is grounded in hard core raiding. But I enjoyed EQ the most in the Vanilla and Kunark days. It was when they transitioned to the raiding focused game play in Velious, is where it lost its luster.
I'd say impossible, because you are right. And that was the point of my first sentence. MMORPG is an acronym where every letter really is integral to what the game is. However, the sad reality is, the market today is not interested in the time and patience required to fully realize the MM part of that. Personally, I'd say I'm no longer a fan of MMORPG's but I'd love to see a diablo that isn't just 4 maps. I'd love to see one in a fully open world the size of an Elder Scrolls or modern Fallout.
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Khane
Got something right about marriage
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Daily quests are the worst thing ever brought to gaming. And they just nerfed the shit out of exp gain from 1-100 in the last patch. It's way, way slower now and let me tell you. The game is not better off for it.
They claim it's to get people out of the dungeon queue and into the open world and that it's better for new players to experience the game while leveling. But it's just to sell more level 110 character boosts.
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Yeah last time I played was the tail end of panda expansion so I would not really know. It was only for a short stent, I think I got a pally to lv 80 or some shit before falling asleep at the keyboard. But essentially back then you got to lv 10, the requirement for dungeon finder, than sit in your city spamming dungeon finder over and over. Who the fuck wants to do bear ass quests in the open world? People hated that shit since beginning of WoW in 2004. (Well some thought it was great, im sure, but that shit gets old REAL fast.