The Zionists are whining thread

Beef Supreme_sl said:

And Gaza's already not? How much past being in an open air prison do you need them to be?

GTFO

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There is amassivedifference between the conditions that lead to Germany/Japan's capitulation and these "wars" in Gaza. All the "wars" in Gaza over the last two decades wouldn't even have been a significant battle in WW2. It's just not comparable, it's not on the same scale, not even close. Just to put it into perspective though, Germany lost almost12%of it's population, 8 million people died, a few million of them civilians. On top of that, during the occupation,a few million MORE Germans died; starvation, malnutrition and fairly brutal behavior by all the allies (Not just the Russians.) Our goal was to literally reduce the citizenry to a level of poverty before making them dependent on us for rebuilding--and wedidit.

If Gaza was being treated the same way as Germany post WW2; we'd call it agenocidetoday,easy. And again, that's NOT including the terrible losses suffered in WW2. By the end of allied occupation there was, most likely, not one German family that didn't lose a few members, or face eviction/looting/destruction of their property. Notone. By comparison, in the last two decades, about 3-4k Palestinians have died--this total, is about.001% of their population. And while 3000 people dying is horrific; it's such a small number that MOST Palestinian families probably haven't lost anyone within their immediate household (The total opposite of the Germans).

The total effect on society is just not even comparable. There is just a massive difference between the "total war" we used to engage in and our modern, westernized version of PR war that sprang up due to Vietnam. It's just a lot easier to continue "resistance" when you still have most of the young male members of your society; it's just nothing like it was. People forget the horrors that allowed the Marshal plan to work; there is no way a modern war can institute those changes.

Do you even realize how many people in JUST Gaza would need to die before you aproached that death toll (As a % of population, btw)? We are talking close to 200k--and for it to be as impactful, it would need to happen in a 4 year period--and that's not including the millions of Germans who died in the occupation, that's JUST the war. I'm so sorry, Gaza doesn't know obliteration because it's facing a modern Westernized opponent; if you believe it does, then you need to crack open a history book.

fanaskin_sl said:

you can be brutal even extremely brutal for short periods of time, but 60+ years is a little too long. Shit or get off the pot israel.

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What? If you use your analogy they did shit, they won the land via a war. Now its just continuous fighting because the people who lost the land want it back.

fanaskin_sl said:

you can be brutal even extremely brutal for short periods of time, but 60+ years is a little too long. Shit or get off the pot israel.

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Even then, the sum total for the wars between 47 and the 80's is around 15k. That's 18-20k so far, of a total population (Since we need to include the WB now) of over4 million. It's just not comparable, man. If the argument is to be made that the current conditions are bad by our modern sensibilities--that's fine, hell I even agree. But compared to WW2? No. Even if you counted ALL the wars from 47, until now, the number of lives loss, evenadjusting for population, is not even 5% of the losses just incurred by Germany. (And yes, I totally understand death is not the only factor of brutality; but it IS a significant one for completely destroying a society--and the Palestinians have not experienced it yet.)

The Jews, for all their other ills (Which again, I'll agree with)--have shown remarkable restraint in terms of lives lost. It's just not an "obliteration" by any stretch of the imagination. Again, the total losses of life, in every war, wouldn't even be a significant battle in WW2.

What I find fascinating at the moment is how political allegiances have changed in a way I could have never even fathomed. Egypt/Saudi Arabia semi-silently standing behind Israel, while Qatar and Turkey rally behind Hamas.

I'm also curious as to why, despite whitewashed "formal" interviews with Khaled that skips over questions about human shields and their "charter", the media doesn't bother posting shit likethis, which is practically a daily occurrence in the middle east. Out east with ISIS, you get the same narrative, except it's Christians. I wonder how the Islamist's feel about Atheists? You could basically take that dude on the pulpit, replace him with Hitler, and you wouldn't be able to tell the two apart based on the speech. Whether you're Hamas/Islamic Jihad/ISIS, Jews/Christians are just the appetizer.

fanaskin_sl said:

in no way is ww2 comparable to "mowing the grass" shit was literally the worlds most powerful states using powerful new models of propaganda to mobilize and engage in total war against each other.

Israel already won the wars, they just are doing a shitty job of winning the peace, it's much more comparable to colonial policing if anything

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Can there be peace with the current people in charge of that little strip of land? Those same people who's goal is to get all the land they lost back. Not to mention religious differences. Would take a awful lot of complete 180s for it to happen.

Cad_sl said:

Israel is being a lot nicer than I'd be.

One idea I had was loading up cargo planes full of Palestinians with parachutes and air-dropping them over various countries in the middle east, kinda like presents.

Or picking a nice unsettled portion of Brazil or Siberia and establishing some Palestinian "settlements", by air drop.

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This post does sound nicer when you read the "with parachutes" part versus reading without.

Tuco_sl said:

Haha I did the same thing, I read it as "One Idea... cargo plane... Palestinian... air dropping..." uhoh...

If Israel had the ability to easily bus Palestinians into say, southwest Egypt, I wonder what would happen.

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The answer is quite easy, Egypt would either kill them or put them in an internment camp that would make Gaza look like Club Med. Egypt doesn't want Palestinians there, because even they see them as radicals now. Sissi may be a dictator, but he's no friend of radical Islam atm.

Phazael_sl said:

My point still stands. It is possible for a country to be vanquished in war and end up much improved down the road, if the victor cares about more than butchering the loser. Israel is not interested in victory, it wants to "mow the lawn". That's is also the answer to Tuco's question. Israel does not give a fuck about peace and has zero interest in integrating more Islamic people into their society at large, so the answer is to periodically "mow the lawn" and maintain the status quo. If a backward fucked up nation like ours can nuke someone and still help set them on the right path for the long haul, what does that say about Israel's handling of such a small subjugated group?

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Look how that worked for Iraq? I won't say it doesn't work, but its not a simple "the occupier has to want to help". It's even worse because there are religious reasons involved. When groups hate each other and have been for who knows how long, it's not a simple "We conquered you, now come live next to us and we will help". That hate doesn't go away. What you are talking would require both sides to agree and come together, which won't be happening. As neither side wants the other near it or by it, hell one side doesn't like the existence of the other at all in the area.

Very different situation then say japan(your example).

Well it's not like they rigged the election either. When Hamas won it they would have been happy with a do over. They demanded one.

If the accusation is that when engaged in conflict they try not to lose it, then sure. I know it's more than that, but I think there may be a standard being misapplied or applied unevenly.

Cad_sl said:

Israel is being a lot nicer than I'd be.

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And that there is what most people don't realize. Put in the same situation, most would do far, far, worse. People who either have no exposure to living within middle-eastern culture, haven't payed attention to history, or simply find it easy to take a moral stance on a situation they've never even been exposed to.

If Texans were able to tune the channel to Mexican TV whenever they wanted, and were flooded with endless shows calling for and depicting their TOTAL extermination, AND a lot of those viewers actually had grandparents that WERE indeed exterminated, I doubt Texans would roll their eyes and say "oh, we can make peace with them". In fact, I'm pretty sure the response would be far in excess of what Israel has done. I don't even want to think of what Rick Perry would propose.. But if you're an Israeli, you are watching people calling for your genocide every day, and the prospect of genocide is far from an intangible concept to you..

So in order for the Palestinian conflict to be serious, they need to compete with the losses from WW2? That's some nice logic.

You guys act as if Gaza is just some Somali-like terrorist nation state that kills and terrorizes with weapons from Syria, etc, when it's nothing more than an open air prison under the iron Jewish jackboot; a testament to how close Israel will come to eradication without having the cajones to pull the trigger. They just let them fester and swell, enough to get some rockets tossed their way so they can justify invasion, destruction and humiliation of the Palestinian people. Some pittly rockets hit our shit, time to send in some Apaches, a few merkava tanks and some white phosphorus munitions. All in a days work for the IDF.

Noam Chomsky: My Visit to Gaza, the World's Largest Open-Air Prison

Ralph Nader: Pounding Gaza s largest open-air prison

Tales from Gaza: What is life really like in ? - Middle East - World - The Independent

Israel is allowed by the West to commit the largest ethnic cleansing this side of Africa. And with our money! And weapons!

Their farce of a country will get gobbled up into oblivion once the West tires of their obligation to pity them over the Holocaust. Or when the Saudis can't pump enough oil. Or when Syria or Lebanon buy a nuke from the Indians.