Vanguard - I don't give a fuck if it's dead, It's still brown as fuck (Download link in 1st post)

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Hateyou

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its been a while since I played, this shit came out in like 2007...but was it always this, janky? Or is this just artifacts from it being an emulator. like no ability to prekey/queue abilities? I get some of the movement/zaxis stuff is due to it being an emulator but I didnt remember the animations and ability queueing to be this shitty
No, there are definitely some issues with the skills, cooldowns, etc. If you watch a video from back then they were all pretty solid. In the emu, something is off, like they don’t solidly trigger/go into cooldown visually properly.

Can see this dude fighting 4:30 in
 
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Xinux

Lord Nagafen Raider
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No, there are definitely some issues with the skills, cooldowns, etc. If you watch a video from back then they were all pretty solid. In the emu, something is off, like they don’t solidly trigger/go into cooldown visually properly.

Can see this dude fighting 4:30 in
I took a disc and copied the first few moves and not really seeing a difference in the cooldowns mind you animation wise yes we have a lot that are off since some abilities can have up to 3 different animations attached to it. There is a list of animations I was able to decode out of the client and could match up a good majority of the spells with the animations by hand. I tried parsing animations via packet logs but the only thing that ever got sent name wise was just the cast bar and damage packets and neither of those have the animation ID attached to it and the client is constanly getting animation packets so I couldn't just start parsing at the start of the cast because of various other animations going on.

Here is a quick video if you can point out which parts of the cooldown are off or can give me a exact timestamp from the video posted I'm more then happy to look in to it.

 
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popsicledeath

Potato del Grande
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reform reform reform reform reform

no serious gamer tolerated that. you had to really hate WoW and current EQ at the time.

Yeah, it was bad, but if I recall related to chunking and greatly mitigated by waiting until everyone got into the zone to form up.

The chunk system really fucked the game. Should have still built the world with natural choke points and zone lines, just incorporated them more cleverly and to blend in more. Seems a ton of their issues were related to trying to get a seamless world working.
 
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Hateyou

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I took a disc and copied the first few moves and not really seeing a difference in the cooldowns mind you animation wise yes we have a lot that are off since some abilities can have up to 3 different animations attached to it. There is a list of animations I was able to decode out of the client and could match up a good majority of the spells with the animations by hand. I tried parsing animations via packet logs but the only thing that ever got sent name wise was just the cast bar and damage packets and neither of those have the animation ID attached to it and the client is constanly getting animation packets so I couldn't just start parsing at the start of the cast because of various other animations going on.

Here is a quick video if you can point out which parts of the cooldown are off or can give me a exact timestamp from the video posted I'm more then happy to look in to it.

I actually didn’t have the problem today. Maybe I had lag problems last night. The abilities just wouldn’t trigger immediately after the cooldown finishes, I had to press multiple times. Today when I played it was just like the video. So, not sure what was going on but if I see it again I’ll take better notes. Thanks for looking at it.
 

Sylas

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I still have it happening to me which makes me think it is client/server latency related. I am playing from Japan so i'm used to latency on actions in mmos but this seems different/coded weird. Not sure if its because of emulator or if vanguard was just coded like this. I was playing from the US when i played originally back in 2007 so I never noticed this stuff. Also not knocking you at all i'm guessing this is how the game was coded. you are doing a great job with bringing this dinosaur back to life.

Keep in mind i'm no coder/network guy I could be completely out of left field here, just describing what it seems is happening:

so say I'm fighting a mob. the first melee attack I use goes normally, this triggers the hotbar wide GCD. then once the gcd is complete I have to hit my next ability multiple times before it triggers, after the gcd has been completed for half a second or more. sometimes up to 1 full second delay from when my client shows the GCD has completed and when my next ability will trigger with me spamming the button. There is no indication in the game that it has "seen" my ability request and something's wrong so it's not performing it (ie like out of range, you cant do that yet, etc)

Most games have an ability "queue" to handle client/server disagreements like this, because we're talking miliseconds here it shouldn't matter. Client thinks the GCD is complete it accepts the next ability request and sends to the server. Server takes the request and waits until it sees the GCD is completed on its end and then it performs the action. Once client side gets the confirmation that the server has the request, it starts the animation of the attack and by the time the animation is rolling the server and client are back in sync and server has done the math, then dmg is displayed.

In vanguard i've noticed that the math is displayed instantly after resolution before the animation even plays, even the mob death happens before animation. Thats what leads me to believe that the client is waiting on server confirmation before it lets me key abilities. the whole "handshake" has to complete before it starts animating.

I only have like 150-200ms latency so it should be only 0.15-0.20 second delay at best. In other games it translates into having everything happen 0.2s after i press it, but otherwise everything happens normally. But with Vanguard emu it seems like the server refuses to accept inputs until after it receives word from my client that my GCD has completed, which adds a full round trip Japan > Canada > Japan latency before I can key abilities, so up to half a second or more.

I'll try and illustrate what i'm talking about with a shitty timeline:

Every MMO i've ever played, starting with the 2nd ability (ie after the first GCD):
GCD complete, press next ability---->server receives/Client begins animation---->Server does math/sends results to client for display--->Repeat
1.5s...............................................................................1.7s..............................................................................1.9s...........................................2.0s

Vanguard:
GCD complete on client------->Client tells server GCD is complete------->Server tells client GCD is complete------>Client sends ability to server---------->Server sends results back------->repeat
i'm spamming ability--------------> still spamming-------------------------------->Client finally allows ability to go thru----------->GCD starts on client--------------------->dmg is show then animation plays
1.5s...........................................................1.7s...........................................................1.9s......................................................2.0s.................................................2.2s.................................2.3s
 
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Xinux

Lord Nagafen Raider
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I still have it happening to me which makes me think it is client/server latency related. I am playing from Japan so i'm used to latency on actions in mmos but this seems different/coded weird. Not sure if its because of emulator or if vanguard was just coded like this. I was playing from the US when i played originally back in 2007 so I never noticed this stuff. Also not knocking you at all i'm guessing this is how the game was coded. you are doing a great job with bringing this dinosaur back to life.

Keep in mind i'm no coder/network guy I could be completely out of left field here, just describing what it seems is happening:

so say I'm fighting a mob. the first melee attack I use goes normally, this triggers the hotbar wide GCD. then once the gcd is complete I have to hit my next ability multiple times before it triggers, after the gcd has been completed for half a second or more. sometimes up to 1 full second delay from when my client shows the GCD has completed and when my next ability will trigger with me spamming the button. There is no indication in the game that it has "seen" my ability request and something's wrong so it's not performing it (ie like out of range, you cant do that yet, etc)

Most games have an ability "queue" to handle client/server disagreements like this, because we're talking miliseconds here it shouldn't matter. Client thinks the GCD is complete it accepts the next ability request and sends to the server. Server takes the request and waits until it sees the GCD is completed on its end and then it performs the action. Once client side gets the confirmation that the server has the request, it starts the animation of the attack and by the time the animation is rolling the server and client are back in sync and server has done the math, then dmg is displayed.

In vanguard i've noticed that the math is displayed instantly after resolution before the animation even plays, even the mob death happens before animation. Thats what leads me to believe that the client is waiting on server confirmation before it lets me key abilities. the whole "handshake" has to complete before it starts animating.

I only have like 150-200ms latency so it should be only 0.15-0.20 second delay at best. In other games it translates into having everything happen 0.2s after i press it, but otherwise everything happens normally. But with Vanguard emu it seems like the server refuses to accept inputs until after it receives word from my client that my GCD has completed, which adds a full round trip Japan > Canada > Japan latency before I can key abilities, so up to half a second or more.

I'll try and illustrate what i'm talking about with a shitty timeline:

Every MMO i've ever played, starting with the 2nd ability (ie after the first GCD):
GCD complete, press next ability---->server receives/Client begins animation---->Server does math/sends results to client for display--->Repeat
1.5s...............................................................................1.7s..............................................................................1.9s...........................................2.0s

Vanguard:
GCD complete on client------->Client tells server GCD is complete------->Server tells client GCD is complete------>Client sends ability to server---------->Server sends results back------->repeat
i'm spamming ability--------------> still spamming-------------------------------->-Spamming then Ability triggers----------->GCD starts on client--------------------->dmg is show then animation plays
1.5s...........................................................1.7s...........................................................1.9s......................................................2.0s.................................................2.2s.................................2.3s
Would you mind doing a short video for me. Here is the process Press Ability ----> Client checks itself if the ability cooldown is on cooldown or under global cooldown if not sends cast request packet to the server ----> server does it's own check to see if ability is on cooldown or under global cooldown if it is sends error back to the client if not ----> processes ability sends global cooldown packet along with related ability packets back to the client -> client processes those packets and starts the cooldown timer/display that was sent in the packets.
 
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LachiusTZ

Rogue Deathwalker Box
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shabushabu

Molten Core Raider
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Logged in . Created a toon any folks looking for heals or Cc or tank for some grouping let me know just level 5 atm
 

Sylas

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Would you mind doing a short video for me. Here is the process Press Ability ----> Client checks itself if the ability cooldown is on cooldown or under global cooldown if not sends cast request packet to the server ----> server does it's own check to see if ability is on cooldown or under global cooldown if it is sends error back to the client if not ----> processes ability sends global cooldown packet along with related ability packets back to the client -> client processes those packets and starts the cooldown timer/display that was sent in the packets.
Well I logged in today and to try and figure out how to screen grab and got distracted with running some dungeons with the forum bros.

What I can say is there is no visual indication (no indication on the hotbar that i'm pressing abilities, no error messages popping up on screen or in chat that would indicate the ability can't be used)so not sure if a video will even help. The only thing you will see is GCD complete and then a brief delay before the next ability is activated. There is a sound that is played tho, the default "chk chk" sound when you press a hotkey that can't be used yet. I dont know if that even helps.

Like I said it basically results in a split second delay from when the client is showing me the GCD has completed vs when the GCD has actually completed and the game will let me queue another ability. about 0.5s but if its laggy closer to 1s. It's not game breaking just jarring more than anything, especially when you are used to smoother combat/transitions. I wouldn't waste too much of your time on it since I doubt this affects many people other than me.
 

Daidraco

Golden Baronet of the Realm
9,071
9,098
Wasnt there a build floating around the game in the first couple months of launch that had pieces from high and low end dungeons that increased crit damage to some obscene level? All of the pieces had high crit rating, so as long as your tank could hold aggro - you could just dunk on shit. Probably got nerfed now that I think about it. :rolleyes:
 

Xinux

Lord Nagafen Raider
91
177
Did some work on animations over the weekend and won't be live till I update the server this week.

Code:
Added: Secondary animation and play animation to SpellHeal LUA function
Added: Check to spells with a duration timer to not remove buff/dot until all ticks have been processed
Added: Heals spells you cast on yourself should say Your and you instead of your name twice
Added: Animation ID define for when there should be no animation played
Added: Storing animation sequence and master animation sequence value per chunk
Update: Rework on how we were doing packet animation sequence/master values
Update: Removed IRC from the project
Update: Animation test commands to default to the caster if no target
Update: Changed default value for current_slot and current_equipped_slot when mailing items
Update: Change how current_slot and current_equipped_slot are handled when swapping equipped items between slots ie..Ring, Earring etc etc
SQL Update: Rev 4205 - Remove irc commands.sql
 
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Xinux

Lord Nagafen Raider
91
177
Is there a preview function to see what items look like if you cant equip them? Would love to see the cosmetics for this stuff.
You can preview a item if you are able to mouse over the item itself for instance items in your inventory, on the exchange inspecting, loot window etc etc. It does not work for item links or tooltips.
 
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