War Dogs PvPvP 100 Person Tactical Shooter
- Thread starter Xevy
- Start date
gauze
Molten Core Raider
- 1,246
- 490
I'm the opposite; I think they need to increase vehicle prices aggressively. I personally enjoy the idea that your kits are leaning you into wanting to live longer than 10 seconds but vehicles don't seem to adhere to the same concept.. as the weeks has gone on, it's a little less apparent.. but when people started breaking into T4 and the endgame gear, they were far less risk oriented.. but there was an overtime progression, I never felt that for the attack vehicles minus havoc and tank(not arty). It's pretty funny killing an attack little bird knowing in about 5 minutes he is going to return.. an infantry man is the same, but only if they're in a midtier kit. I rarely see T4/FAL guys return, let alone solo, non-zerg/deathball.. though I had one game where these 6 Ghilli suit guys kept keeping each other alive and/or not giving up because they wanted to keep their ghillie suits... probably got upwards to 20 kills off of them and not counting my duos.
I don't start doing whispy shit til I make atleast half my kit back in profit. I think there will be a rude awakening when the parachute nerf hits.. first few days will be glorious. Also if to be understood as true, water accumulating on heli's(guessing all vehicles?) and T4 helm visors; should be interesting
Brammer also mentioned something regarding streaks, which was specifically regarding driving progression. I wouldn't mind that being something that is applied across the board to alleviate costs. As of now, Driving has a "round trip bonus" but said by S2, it'll be a compounding bonus. If it were the same for Infantry, would be pretty cool. Do job, and get more for doing it consistently.
Also a ton of PKM videoes have started popping up, and it shreds.
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Xevy
Log Wizard
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Vehicles either need to be expensive and you have to be good with them to pay off or if they're cheap they need some limit/cooldown so people can't just spam them. I actually had like ONE game where the game was where I envisioned it where a Havoc was trying to blow up FOB's and vehicles and the little birds were all trying to blow up the havoc and other little birds were fighting THOSE little birds. Vehicle vs Vehicle combat rather than some unkillable 10k buzzsaw 3 shotting me in 3 armor/4 helmet because he only gets neck shots (new cheat, btw!). I've done a few double MAAWS/Verba runs now and for the 4 or so MAAWS and one Verba I get MAYBE one vehicle kill and it's usually a shitty little bird RTB after dodging a Talon already. I've also done Verba 6 RPG shells while under heli attack and it's just too hard to get the window when peope don't mark helicopters. Rocket choppers are actuallly bugged and you don't hear them fire rockets but hear them hit you and the audio channe is fucked or something so you don't hear it flying at all. It may be an audio cone thing with all vehicles, I had a humvee show up 6 feet from me, kill my teammate, no audio until they shot, then drive away and I had a MAAWS. Worried I was going to miss my opportunity but they came back (didn't hear it) until they commed they were rezzing some guy. If they hadn't done that I would've peaked it with my gun and gotten splattered.
Some of this is their servers just not holding up. Happens in every large scale persistent game like this and BRs. The more objects the more people the more explosions the worse server performance. I don't know how their audio channels work for prio but you're getting more and more Heavy's running up to you completely silent. A complete wipe next week will probably make audio work much better at least temporarily.
I go from games where we deathball and nothing happens and we win. Deathball vs Deathball and it's fun. Or both teams just lock down our entire team for some reason and I just lose 80k trying to combat infinite vehicles. It's a weird place, but it's all data for collection and analysis in the end.
Some of this is their servers just not holding up. Happens in every large scale persistent game like this and BRs. The more objects the more people the more explosions the worse server performance. I don't know how their audio channels work for prio but you're getting more and more Heavy's running up to you completely silent. A complete wipe next week will probably make audio work much better at least temporarily.
I go from games where we deathball and nothing happens and we win. Deathball vs Deathball and it's fun. Or both teams just lock down our entire team for some reason and I just lose 80k trying to combat infinite vehicles. It's a weird place, but it's all data for collection and analysis in the end.
Xevy
Log Wizard
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Just rewatched it and there is Humvee audio but it's intermittent. Could've been just start/stopping or if they're an ol H1Z1/PUBG pro just ghosted around with the engine off. There's definitely patches of no audio when it's within 25m of me though. Also I triple kill it and I got a whopping 10k total for a vehicle kill, 2 normal kills, and 1 "shutdown" kill. That's kind of shit for the amount of effort it took to hunt down and walk super heavy with 6 stims to the spot where I could POSSIBLY kill it before it killed me. $1500 for a gunner humvee straight up seems kind of shit.
Sludig
Potato del Grande
- 12,274
- 13,404
I think a lot there would be resolved just with some buff to verba tracking. I got really sick of baiting a flare, and watching a rocket miss from a moderate distance, no tree's or anything. (vs trying too close or so far that the flare resets)
Other than the 5 havok night, I've only seen one other one. and actually not seen tanks in ages. (Too much easy jeep c4, sneaking up one way or another, my favorite now is c4 on top of supply boxes, drop them via little bird onto tank swapping co pilot and blowing)
I've not had those audio issues so might be more individual hardware issue person to person. I've had people yelling at me for not hearing my ural running over them.
Went in -40k (svd kit + doing a maaws delivery box to fob, 50/50 anyone buys it but pretty good supply xp if they do) and still managed to end up +30k. Ran out of ammo and took a guys 20 round mp5 with flesh, oh boy that tore folks up. SVD w/ 10 rounder esp if you can get the scope off indoors has been pretty good for me, it's clunky to use but I actually like the 4x/iron sight a lot, a bit better than 3x but not so awful to use as the 3-6x. Really looking forward season 2 the final unlock 2-10 or whatever it is. I did like the 1.5x acog that was on the dudes mp5 though.
Saw a post about hidden stats, like 50 round galil is 100% not worth running. 20% nerf to aim sway, recoil etc
Other than the 5 havok night, I've only seen one other one. and actually not seen tanks in ages. (Too much easy jeep c4, sneaking up one way or another, my favorite now is c4 on top of supply boxes, drop them via little bird onto tank swapping co pilot and blowing)
I've not had those audio issues so might be more individual hardware issue person to person. I've had people yelling at me for not hearing my ural running over them.
Went in -40k (svd kit + doing a maaws delivery box to fob, 50/50 anyone buys it but pretty good supply xp if they do) and still managed to end up +30k. Ran out of ammo and took a guys 20 round mp5 with flesh, oh boy that tore folks up. SVD w/ 10 rounder esp if you can get the scope off indoors has been pretty good for me, it's clunky to use but I actually like the 4x/iron sight a lot, a bit better than 3x but not so awful to use as the 3-6x. Really looking forward season 2 the final unlock 2-10 or whatever it is. I did like the 1.5x acog that was on the dudes mp5 though.
Saw a post about hidden stats, like 50 round galil is 100% not worth running. 20% nerf to aim sway, recoil etc
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BrotherWu
MAGA
- 3,691
- 8,427
Yeah I'd be okay with decreasing kit costs and increasing aircraft costs. Kits could be halved and choppers doubled, for that matter. It might decrease the number of choppers being flown, which would be a good ting. I also think the countermeasures are a little pricey at 750 each considering it's not uncommon to have to pop a couple on a drop.
One other thing I have noticed is that FOBs are becoming almost irrelevant. Part of the problem is that you frequently have several being built just because people want to do their own thing and level their skills. That dilutes resources and manpower and makes all the FOBs weaker. Many are never finished or are built like shit.
The deathball meta is generally so much of a stronger play than trying finish a secure FOB. It can be a win if you can pull the HZ and hold it but I don't see that happening as much right now. I hope they can make some tweaks balance it all out and make supply lines important again.
gauze
Molten Core Raider
- 1,246
- 490
Nah, I think the kit costs are fine(if not, needs to be more for some of the power you can get from it); if anything I would love to see the price fluctuate based on usage but that math is probably too tough in an already convoluted atmosphere of tings.. aka the more an item is used the more expensive it becomes from its base price but goes down to the base price the less its used. I would rather the avenues of rewards go up for infantry before their kits cost lowered(streaks, survival, or defending bonuses).. a 20k kit becoming a 150k-200k return, and a 8k easily becoming a 90k return is pretty wild. I could only imagine what would happen if 20k was 5-10k kit and making 150-200k or 8k becoming 2k and getting 90k.. While not every game wildly profitable for me, i'm rarely more than -5k in the hole at the end of the game and have some games that are only 10-20k profit. The problem relies in a sorta mentality of play, where a lot of people have cod brain and are immediately into action without perimeter security; a mistake I make too. I see 8 people ahead of me, so I try to move up and get waxed by the 3 man between. Kit value translates into the importance of living due to making your money back and then some. Join a game half way in, get a lowerprice kit to test the waters.. team getting waxed, same thing. Got a squad, spend some money and start rolling. I can't seem to get my kits out of the 20k margin personally, and every game; even losing.. i'm walking out with profit majority of the time.. but I also don't try to get into fire fights where i'm taking on 12 dudes at a time rotating revives. Once things get too hot, I fall back to the next potential stronghold.. but often i am trying to find my way to the middle of the map so that I can fight both teams trying to move when i'm solo and/or trying to be parrellel with the people trying to fight inside the hotzone.
I also come from Counter-Strike, where "Saving" and "Playing your life" are incredibly valuable strategies.
So, it's only a theory from experience really.. but whenever I join the "Official Servers" it feels like it's very much if you know you know kinda gameplay where players try to stack on one team and steamroll games, farming money; and there is no incentive against it.. winning cash is moot and mostly comes from "participating." There is no "bounty" system and beating up the lesser team is just as much reward as killing the leading team.. the other half of the player are either slow pc's that don't get to participate because they didn't load in fast enough and/or players who believe in the blue curse(which is self fulfilling via the faster pc's joining the other two teams). I've seen more endgame spam in Official Servers than I have in community servers.. second endgame gear spam would be some of the infantry servers.. The other community servers i've played on, I have seen some wild swing games.. Literal 84-93-100 type games. The strategies have been interesting, impenetrable bases ect. I'm not a huge base guy, and hate when I see the whole team in one.. but i've been on a teams that do the base thing. We're at 5pts, while the other two teams are at 40-50pts ahead.. we finally call the drill multiple times while taking artillery/mortars; dog fight the ever living fuck out of it, come back 40-50pts to 50 - 60pts.. sometimes they try to recuperate the base after the onslaught and other half of the team after the basing is now running it back into the hot zone obliterating. It beats being pushed to the edges of the circle being farmed as we come in.. which I don't see as often as I did in Officials.. Shit the other day, we ran it down to 99 on Blue.. we had 3 or 4 fobs we built, I was apart of a team that was holding the stadium hostage between Red/Green.. Red started a generation run from 60pts and Green had been going back and forth with us.. Red basically came in took out our fobs, and were full on targetting blue.. because of the nature of 99, our team was so in the rush to get back in that they were freekitting and zerging for the one point.. to the point that Red was now 93, Green was 97, and we had been 99 forever now.. Eventually my friend sat in spawn yelling buy a kit we just need to win one fight, you'll get refunded.. and within less than 5 minutes we finally got the last point after losing 2 apc's and a full blackhawk crash while sitting on 99. I wish I clipped the heli crash because he was flying low, nobody could bail.. tail got hit by I assume a maaw.. so it just tumbled and the killfeed blue on blue death.. I just thought to myself fuck thats GG.
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Xevy
Log Wizard
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Surefour, a former OW fragger pro played this nonstop and he said it best:
To make money: play infantry with people who will revive you. That's it.
Infantry costs me ~21k to go out and I can make it back IF I have people with me and people with defibs/smokes. Often I'll go HZ with 4-5 other guys and we'll get creamed by the deathball and that's it, That's 21k gone. The kits are only worth it if you have teammates. You're not getting a 25k kit and going rambo and making it back, that shit's not happening. Outside picking on Bobs (every kill streak clip you'll see is people killing 60 yeard old Bobs with no armor/probably no guns over and over) you WILL get fucked eventually without team assistance. Whether it's them rezzing you, suppressing, flanking, or just tanking bullets so you can spot people, infantry ONLY works as a team.
Vehicles you can do whatever you want. You can fuck around and get your 10k back with like 6 or 7 kills and then it's free money and if you're not dogshit or the other team IS dogshit, that's easy money. It's not the best money, but it's money. I've had a few 100k+ kit-lifes as infantry but only with 2-4 other people I knew in my squad and it's literally the duration of the game. I probably still died 2-5 times in that kit-life, but I had people to rez me and get us safe and secure. Johnny rocket chopper can just find their APC if it's not in a building and blow it up in 6 rockets for like 15k and then jerk off until they try to drive it in zone again.
Kit prices for infantry are high investment, medium reward. Most of that kit is going to be replaced if you're doing really well. You're going to need new ammo from dead guys, probably a new vest at some point, definitely more healing, and other tacticals like smoke/batteries. So that 20k+ isn't even a onestop go. I'll fucking put 200+ AP 5.56 into every little bird that challenges us and that's that's something like 600 bucks right there and then I have to repack mags and find more ammo eventually. I was doing RPG shit but waddling everywhere and sacrificing shit like a defib and smokes is just not worth it unless you're on FoB defense and even then some naked Bob is going to be screaming for a rez even though he's naked and you still have enemies inside/outside the FoB.
The real money farm, unless the other team is competent, is probably Driver Gunner shit. You can load up a gunner humvee with 5.56 for like 6k and then slap on armor and just bully everyone unless they shoot tires or run MAWS. It APPEARS they fixed the gunner desync shit, but it's still hard as fuck to kill them even with AP when the gunner is in the lean-back position. And the ballistic glass, as my clip showed, is no fucking joke. MAAWS work great, but you're fatboying it and you need your team to mark/call it out before it shows up on you and insta gibs you.
I think vehicles should get rewards based on what they do. Farming infantry with a little bird? Outside the Hot Zone it should be dogshit exp. Inside Hot Zone? Sure, you're actually helping. Rocket Choppering infantry? Nah, that's not your job. Rocket Choppering FoB defenses/APCS/Tanks/Humvees? Kudos! That's what you're SUPPOSED to do! Give them the money. I honestly don't know what Havoc's job is right now once you get 3/4 armor unless they blow your toes off you can eat like 9 shots pretty easily. I guess it's supposed to be an-rounder for anti vehicle/infantry, but you rarely see them anywhere but FoB harassment.
Like I said, I'm a big fan of vehicles used for a purpose rather than just as a better armored/armed infantry. Why play a 21k soldier when I can be a 6k giga tank with a lazer SAW. I believe some one said the SAW itself is like 5k and the SAW humvee is like 6500. That's a fucking bargain!
I think they'll figure it out I really enjoyed watching like 9 helicopters all fighting each other, that was cool. Some dingus just hovering over us never getting rocketed because he's 20m away and 20m off the ground is super shit. Same with Battle Buses and Humvees. Watching a battle bus pull up with two gunners in a pile of team corpses to cover while rezzing them is badass. That shit is actaully cool. Humvees running recon or baiting bullets is also cool. Humvees just driving into 9 guys and killing them all instantly, driving away, waiting for rezzes, coming back and doing it again is lame.
TL
R Vehicles shouldn't be the cheapest/most powerful kit, even if you can make more money as infantry. You're only making more money as infantry if your team plays well together, and vehicles don't necessarily need that.
To make money: play infantry with people who will revive you. That's it.
Infantry costs me ~21k to go out and I can make it back IF I have people with me and people with defibs/smokes. Often I'll go HZ with 4-5 other guys and we'll get creamed by the deathball and that's it, That's 21k gone. The kits are only worth it if you have teammates. You're not getting a 25k kit and going rambo and making it back, that shit's not happening. Outside picking on Bobs (every kill streak clip you'll see is people killing 60 yeard old Bobs with no armor/probably no guns over and over) you WILL get fucked eventually without team assistance. Whether it's them rezzing you, suppressing, flanking, or just tanking bullets so you can spot people, infantry ONLY works as a team.
Vehicles you can do whatever you want. You can fuck around and get your 10k back with like 6 or 7 kills and then it's free money and if you're not dogshit or the other team IS dogshit, that's easy money. It's not the best money, but it's money. I've had a few 100k+ kit-lifes as infantry but only with 2-4 other people I knew in my squad and it's literally the duration of the game. I probably still died 2-5 times in that kit-life, but I had people to rez me and get us safe and secure. Johnny rocket chopper can just find their APC if it's not in a building and blow it up in 6 rockets for like 15k and then jerk off until they try to drive it in zone again.
Kit prices for infantry are high investment, medium reward. Most of that kit is going to be replaced if you're doing really well. You're going to need new ammo from dead guys, probably a new vest at some point, definitely more healing, and other tacticals like smoke/batteries. So that 20k+ isn't even a onestop go. I'll fucking put 200+ AP 5.56 into every little bird that challenges us and that's that's something like 600 bucks right there and then I have to repack mags and find more ammo eventually. I was doing RPG shit but waddling everywhere and sacrificing shit like a defib and smokes is just not worth it unless you're on FoB defense and even then some naked Bob is going to be screaming for a rez even though he's naked and you still have enemies inside/outside the FoB.
The real money farm, unless the other team is competent, is probably Driver Gunner shit. You can load up a gunner humvee with 5.56 for like 6k and then slap on armor and just bully everyone unless they shoot tires or run MAWS. It APPEARS they fixed the gunner desync shit, but it's still hard as fuck to kill them even with AP when the gunner is in the lean-back position. And the ballistic glass, as my clip showed, is no fucking joke. MAAWS work great, but you're fatboying it and you need your team to mark/call it out before it shows up on you and insta gibs you.
I think vehicles should get rewards based on what they do. Farming infantry with a little bird? Outside the Hot Zone it should be dogshit exp. Inside Hot Zone? Sure, you're actually helping. Rocket Choppering infantry? Nah, that's not your job. Rocket Choppering FoB defenses/APCS/Tanks/Humvees? Kudos! That's what you're SUPPOSED to do! Give them the money. I honestly don't know what Havoc's job is right now once you get 3/4 armor unless they blow your toes off you can eat like 9 shots pretty easily. I guess it's supposed to be an-rounder for anti vehicle/infantry, but you rarely see them anywhere but FoB harassment.
Like I said, I'm a big fan of vehicles used for a purpose rather than just as a better armored/armed infantry. Why play a 21k soldier when I can be a 6k giga tank with a lazer SAW. I believe some one said the SAW itself is like 5k and the SAW humvee is like 6500. That's a fucking bargain!
I think they'll figure it out I really enjoyed watching like 9 helicopters all fighting each other, that was cool. Some dingus just hovering over us never getting rocketed because he's 20m away and 20m off the ground is super shit. Same with Battle Buses and Humvees. Watching a battle bus pull up with two gunners in a pile of team corpses to cover while rezzing them is badass. That shit is actaully cool. Humvees running recon or baiting bullets is also cool. Humvees just driving into 9 guys and killing them all instantly, driving away, waiting for rezzes, coming back and doing it again is lame.
TL
R Vehicles shouldn't be the cheapest/most powerful kit, even if you can make more money as infantry. You're only making more money as infantry if your team plays well together, and vehicles don't necessarily need that.
gauze
Molten Core Raider
- 1,246
- 490
I love being held in a building by little birds, but once they give me the ability to paint a location or vehicle from an infantry perspective.. I'll be in heaven. Sure the pilot will be hearing warning signals for 30 minutes straight, but atleast they'll have to time their flares approperiately.. Grabbing an empty verba just to target an aircraft only to watch them panic flare and attempt evasive manuevers into the ground is pretty fucking great.
Mao
Trakanon Raider
- 767
- 1,793
All you people saying you barely ever see havocs or GL Helis, please let me in your matches. We have multiple GL helis on one fob, from opposing teams even. I see at least 1 havoc every match, usually multiples. Yesterday I had 3 green Havocs that just rotated around the map with a little bird or two that would join them. Try to build a CWIS or a Talon with that going on. They usually won too. Not always. We did have one where we were able to keep a FOB up cause it was inside an indestructible warehouse, but normally its just roaming gangs of ground troops supported by a couple birds and once they get the AA down they just rotated around keeping everyone's sandcastle knocked flat.
You can try and hit them with Verba's or MAWS, but they can fly back to repair and rearm a lot easier than you can get more Verbas/SMAW ammo.
It is oppressive, and I'm coming to the point I won't do fobbitry if there are attack helis unless there are indestructible buildings.
You can try and hit them with Verba's or MAWS, but they can fly back to repair and rearm a lot easier than you can get more Verbas/SMAW ammo.
It is oppressive, and I'm coming to the point I won't do fobbitry if there are attack helis unless there are indestructible buildings.
Xevy
Log Wizard
- 9,774
- 4,887
We just had a little bird pilot, either regular gunner or rockets go 105 and 15. He only made 230k which is kind of funny, but that's still retarded. Dude lost 15 helis and still got 100+ kills.
Got a 5.56 AP headshot on a pilot before he killed me. 37 headshot damage through a 2 helmet, but hit him in the arm for 1.5 damage. I guess it's headshots or nothing.
Got a 5.56 AP headshot on a pilot before he killed me. 37 headshot damage through a 2 helmet, but hit him in the arm for 1.5 damage. I guess it's headshots or nothing.
Mao
Trakanon Raider
- 767
- 1,793
We just had another match with 2 GL little birds and a Havok. If you have a CWIS you can usually get one, but you don't live long enough to get all of them. Its too easy for them to come in low and just grenade the entire fob. Once they get the CWIS and Talon's down, they just do orbits. If you can spawn in you can often kill them with a Verba or a MAW if they are doing the low orbits, but again. The GLs also blow up structures so they just reduce everything to rubble and fly off.
They did die, but each gunner came out 100k positive and they won the game handily. Just bought more helis and GLs and did it again. You can try and shoot them, but they fly in T4 armor. Its oppressive and honestly, rather just stupid. Too easy to do and do profitably and I really think they should add more anti air options, like an optical or wire guided that if you can keep the sight picture on the bird it tracks.
Anyway. I pretty much only like playing the rail yard map anymore, the Z one.. You can build inside warehouses and that lets people survive the GL Heli spam.
Ohh, added in its bad enough people are just suiciding other little birds into them. This is US East fwiw.
They did die, but each gunner came out 100k positive and they won the game handily. Just bought more helis and GLs and did it again. You can try and shoot them, but they fly in T4 armor. Its oppressive and honestly, rather just stupid. Too easy to do and do profitably and I really think they should add more anti air options, like an optical or wire guided that if you can keep the sight picture on the bird it tracks.
Anyway. I pretty much only like playing the rail yard map anymore, the Z one.. You can build inside warehouses and that lets people survive the GL Heli spam.
Ohh, added in its bad enough people are just suiciding other little birds into them. This is US East fwiw.
Xevy
Log Wizard
- 9,774
- 4,887
There's some pretty easy counters to a lot of the bullshit:
-GL's do reduced damage to lower body and/or you can't pinpoint shoot them. They should lob more than they do, and maybe lose damage at distance. They need to be the anti-infantry RPG equivalent for battlefield fights and fortified positions. Not cheap 1-shot ordinance.
-Vehicles unlock as score progresses like the APC.
-Vehicles have restrictions on amount/user cooldown that decreases as score goes up so you can spam vehicles when it's closer to end game. No tanks/Havocs off the rip.
-RPG does only anti vehicle damage but has a huge projectile hit box so you can blast vehicles, but can't spam infantry. RPG direct hits doing 35 damage guaranteed on infantry probably fine for rez cleanups and window peakers after they're dinged up.
-BMR/FAL I'm not sure about. BMR should just have a headshot modifier, but it's still easy to 1-2 tap heads. But 2-3 body shots killing is dumb. FAL is 3 shot full auto and that's pretty dumb. Maybe major damage falloff for FAL and minimum distance for BMR.
-Reduce the weight of anti vehicle shit and MINIMALLY make RPG shells 2x1 slots, not 3x1. The fucking MAWS is 2x1.
-Mortars can't triple spam. That's a no brainer. They could easily remove the RNG built in to counter this.
-HP Ammo I'm unsure on. It's definitely a strategy, but being able to kill 10 people in a 30 round MP5 HP mag is absurd. Probably just make it do more to armor, slightly less than fmj, with a bonus to limbs. The complete opposite of AP. Having a +30% damage bonus vs FMJ and 30% penalty on armor makes it worth it if you're legging still, but not nearly triple damage.
-Free kits that are free, I'm SICK of seeing like 5 dead fully naked guys in a crucial battle because they're trying to free kit up. These fuckers can't drop 300 dollars on a free gun, bag, and two mags with bandages. Wasting defibs and smokes to rez them in an absolute kick in the dick.
-One Drill per Fob. Limited pull time as I think with enough logi currently with fuel pallets you can basically infinitely suck it. Also maybe make Drills unlocked based on scores/game progression. The Tower system was supposed to do this but outside the beta and day 1/2 I don't think ANYONE has ever free tower sucked in the hundred games I've played. It just doesn't happen.
-Overall outside CERTAIN vehicles, I think most shit should do reduced damage to infantry and increased damage to vehicles/buildings. I don't want chopper cucks farming us for less than the cost of my armor and gun. Beefier RPG changes would help, but they gotta do one or the other.
-FOBs need another use. Drills are fine if toned down, but kind of annoying when the Tower system exists. They need a way to resupply troops or guarantee respawns, especially with the changes to parachutes coming where pilots have to land. The APC is nice, but it's fodder for rocket choppers unless you build a shell FOB around it. Even then they don't have to kill it if they camp it.
Basically they need to horn in the bullshit while tailoring niches to niches. Vehicles should be made for fighting vehicles and provide a presence, but they can't be better, cheaper, stronger, faster infantry with limited weaknesses. SMG's should be rewarded for <10m engagements and quick movement, but not shooting my toes off at 45m in 3 bullets. AR's should be the king of mid range, but shouldn't out dps an smg with hipfire like the M4 often does. Snipers are good early wipe, but shit later unless it's the 50 cal. I'm not sure if it's balanced or not, maybe it should do 90% damage to 2 armors instead of instakill and obviously ALWAYS 1 shot headshot. Shotguns work pretty well if you can get flesh shots and are cheap and effective. LMG's are disgusting with bipods and insane recoil if not crouched otherwise and even then pretty rough, SAW especially. PKM you can tap fire because it's shooting fucking sniper rounds. FOB's should be useful, but not the end game. I'm not trying to dodge mortars and helis for 45 minutes while drill A-C all recycle cooldowns. Hot Zone needs to be more required. Too many people just go for kills where they can get them, stale fights from HZ areas from 15 minutes ago, Bob farming, etc.
They got the parts they just need to smooth the edges and grease the right wheels.
-GL's do reduced damage to lower body and/or you can't pinpoint shoot them. They should lob more than they do, and maybe lose damage at distance. They need to be the anti-infantry RPG equivalent for battlefield fights and fortified positions. Not cheap 1-shot ordinance.
-Vehicles unlock as score progresses like the APC.
-Vehicles have restrictions on amount/user cooldown that decreases as score goes up so you can spam vehicles when it's closer to end game. No tanks/Havocs off the rip.
-RPG does only anti vehicle damage but has a huge projectile hit box so you can blast vehicles, but can't spam infantry. RPG direct hits doing 35 damage guaranteed on infantry probably fine for rez cleanups and window peakers after they're dinged up.
-BMR/FAL I'm not sure about. BMR should just have a headshot modifier, but it's still easy to 1-2 tap heads. But 2-3 body shots killing is dumb. FAL is 3 shot full auto and that's pretty dumb. Maybe major damage falloff for FAL and minimum distance for BMR.
-Reduce the weight of anti vehicle shit and MINIMALLY make RPG shells 2x1 slots, not 3x1. The fucking MAWS is 2x1.
-Mortars can't triple spam. That's a no brainer. They could easily remove the RNG built in to counter this.
-HP Ammo I'm unsure on. It's definitely a strategy, but being able to kill 10 people in a 30 round MP5 HP mag is absurd. Probably just make it do more to armor, slightly less than fmj, with a bonus to limbs. The complete opposite of AP. Having a +30% damage bonus vs FMJ and 30% penalty on armor makes it worth it if you're legging still, but not nearly triple damage.
-Free kits that are free, I'm SICK of seeing like 5 dead fully naked guys in a crucial battle because they're trying to free kit up. These fuckers can't drop 300 dollars on a free gun, bag, and two mags with bandages. Wasting defibs and smokes to rez them in an absolute kick in the dick.
-One Drill per Fob. Limited pull time as I think with enough logi currently with fuel pallets you can basically infinitely suck it. Also maybe make Drills unlocked based on scores/game progression. The Tower system was supposed to do this but outside the beta and day 1/2 I don't think ANYONE has ever free tower sucked in the hundred games I've played. It just doesn't happen.
-Overall outside CERTAIN vehicles, I think most shit should do reduced damage to infantry and increased damage to vehicles/buildings. I don't want chopper cucks farming us for less than the cost of my armor and gun. Beefier RPG changes would help, but they gotta do one or the other.
-FOBs need another use. Drills are fine if toned down, but kind of annoying when the Tower system exists. They need a way to resupply troops or guarantee respawns, especially with the changes to parachutes coming where pilots have to land. The APC is nice, but it's fodder for rocket choppers unless you build a shell FOB around it. Even then they don't have to kill it if they camp it.
Basically they need to horn in the bullshit while tailoring niches to niches. Vehicles should be made for fighting vehicles and provide a presence, but they can't be better, cheaper, stronger, faster infantry with limited weaknesses. SMG's should be rewarded for <10m engagements and quick movement, but not shooting my toes off at 45m in 3 bullets. AR's should be the king of mid range, but shouldn't out dps an smg with hipfire like the M4 often does. Snipers are good early wipe, but shit later unless it's the 50 cal. I'm not sure if it's balanced or not, maybe it should do 90% damage to 2 armors instead of instakill and obviously ALWAYS 1 shot headshot. Shotguns work pretty well if you can get flesh shots and are cheap and effective. LMG's are disgusting with bipods and insane recoil if not crouched otherwise and even then pretty rough, SAW especially. PKM you can tap fire because it's shooting fucking sniper rounds. FOB's should be useful, but not the end game. I'm not trying to dodge mortars and helis for 45 minutes while drill A-C all recycle cooldowns. Hot Zone needs to be more required. Too many people just go for kills where they can get them, stale fights from HZ areas from 15 minutes ago, Bob farming, etc.
They got the parts they just need to smooth the edges and grease the right wheels.
Mao
Trakanon Raider
- 767
- 1,793
Cheats are also back today. Seeing the full auto SVD again. I guess its in response to the GL Helos, cause if I was a cheater I'd fire up the old tools to just nuke GL Helos.
The problem with the game is I don't think they can balance it honestly. When it works, its fun, and that when it works is why I'm still slamming my dick in the door jam over and over, but...
I don't see how they balance it well with vehicles and bases. Attack and GL helos are just ridiculous. The map is small enough that they can fly over, mostly wipe a base of people and AA weapons, then fly back to rearm and be back by the time we've gotten everyone rezzed and back up again. The maps honestly should be bigger. I think that would change a lot of maps were bigger and people had more ground to cover with helos so they couldn't just do a lazy circuit around the CZ and knock everything down, land, rearm, return, repeat.
Also, bigger maps would put some stuff out of range of mortars more.
Bases are also a problem. How do you make them defensively good, but not overpowered? As it is they are too easy to crack, especially if the enemy has any coordination. Last three games are good examples. GL helo's in pairs. If something shoots at 1, the other snuffs it out. CWIS, Talons etc. Last game was 2 GL Helos and Rocket Helo following an upgunned humvee. It was the start of the match. We'd just gotten the FOB placed So your idea of timing unlocks might help. An 'escalation' timer that starts it with a meeting skirmish and as time goes by the stakes upgrade and we get more and more toys. There might be a good playable solution there, but I don't really know if the devs are interested in that. My impression is... not really.
The problem I see is you can individually balance a lot of this shit, but its way tougher to balance at scale. You can have your single helo vs a talon, or even two. Or vs a CWIS, but... when you start flying multiple Helos in one sortie and poor Bob the builder can only get up 1 Talon and maybe a CWIS before they arrive? Yeah, he's fucked. If you make the base stronger and requiring great effort to crack, we're just going to see tonnes of base spam. We'll optimize the fun out of anything
Anyway its late and I'm tired. I'm gonna go sleep and see if I have more rational thoughts tomorrow
The problem with the game is I don't think they can balance it honestly. When it works, its fun, and that when it works is why I'm still slamming my dick in the door jam over and over, but...
I don't see how they balance it well with vehicles and bases. Attack and GL helos are just ridiculous. The map is small enough that they can fly over, mostly wipe a base of people and AA weapons, then fly back to rearm and be back by the time we've gotten everyone rezzed and back up again. The maps honestly should be bigger. I think that would change a lot of maps were bigger and people had more ground to cover with helos so they couldn't just do a lazy circuit around the CZ and knock everything down, land, rearm, return, repeat.
Also, bigger maps would put some stuff out of range of mortars more.
Bases are also a problem. How do you make them defensively good, but not overpowered? As it is they are too easy to crack, especially if the enemy has any coordination. Last three games are good examples. GL helo's in pairs. If something shoots at 1, the other snuffs it out. CWIS, Talons etc. Last game was 2 GL Helos and Rocket Helo following an upgunned humvee. It was the start of the match. We'd just gotten the FOB placed
So your idea of timing unlocks might help. An 'escalation' timer that starts it with a meeting skirmish and as time goes by the stakes upgrade and we get more and more toys. There might be a good playable solution there, but I don't really know if the devs are interested in that. My impression is... not really.The problem I see is you can individually balance a lot of this shit, but its way tougher to balance at scale. You can have your single helo vs a talon, or even two. Or vs a CWIS, but... when you start flying multiple Helos in one sortie and poor Bob the builder can only get up 1 Talon and maybe a CWIS before they arrive? Yeah, he's fucked. If you make the base stronger and requiring great effort to crack, we're just going to see tonnes of base spam. We'll optimize the fun out of anything
Anyway its late and I'm tired. I'm gonna go sleep and see if I have more rational thoughts tomorrow
gauze
Molten Core Raider
- 1,246
- 490
Not to go over everything, but I think Brammer has stated that he doesn't want to "limit or cap" things, via a convo on vehicles, as it goes against the sandbox design pillar and followed by a subtle "go play battlefield.." to boot. So while saying one thing and doing another is certainly a choice.. I think we will see a price increases first... and personally, I don't mind a lot of them in the sky, esp if countermeasures increase; aka re-introduction of the Gepard and how good it might be.. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if we get an LTD at some point too.. Ontop of Jets are confirmed coming.. Outside of dogfights and bombs.. pretty sure birds will be its main source of easy return on investment; but I don't know that, I just hope jets are as fast as the ones we see flying over where doing strafe runs isn't killing 10-20 infantrymen running around outside of a well placed bomb. Similar to Mortars, where firing on field infantry is almost a waste due to it's poor splash and lack of reward versus destroying bases and 'stationary' targets.
I do think small arms should be stronger against the pilot to the point the pilot doesn't want to fly too close.. not to say "kill him" but enough where 30 rounds into the glass should hurt enough //potentially kill him and/or blind him enough that he will fuck off, kamikazi, shoot from afar, or rely on strafe runs. I learned there is a trick, not exactly sure how, that you can clear your glass of bulletholes; which is bs. iirc, ah-6 canopies aren't bullet proof at all and while for the gamification, it makes sense that you can't just take him out because us as video game soldiers are far more accurate than real soldiers in a combat situation; so some deterrence makes sense.. they're definitely not scared of small arms at all, and they should be to some extent. Havoc, I still haven't witnessed pure oppression from one.. at most a call of duty kill streak run.. but i've also ran a number of games where the person i'm playing with uses a maaw against them with great effect.
Keep the mortar triple, reduce the precisio. Much like the vehicles, the whole chaos derived from a barrage is part of the "epic" experience.. if a mortar wants to maintain precision, it should have to rely on a slower rotation.. but running around dodging mortars in the base, timing revives around guessimations, and having explosions all around you; its pretty cool.. imo.. but having your shit taken out instantly feels oppressive. I blew the gates off for my friends attacking a fob with a mortar from another fob we had taken, and still probably top 5 experiences my group has had. After I called hitting the gates, they rushed in and killed people before the dust settled and we had another fob. I do think the mortars talons and cwis need an ammo pool similar to the arty tank though.
The problem with the game is I don't think they can balance it honestly. When it works, its fun, and that when it works is why I'm still slamming my dick in the door jam over and over, but...
I don't see how they balance it well with vehicles and bases. Attack and GL helos are just ridiculous. The map is small enough that they can fly over, mostly wipe a base of people and AA weapons, then fly back to rearm and be back by the time we've gotten everyone rezzed and back up again. The maps honestly should be bigger. I think that would change a lot of maps were bigger and people had more ground to cover with helos so they couldn't just do a lazy circuit around the CZ and knock everything down, land, rearm, return, repeat.
Also, bigger maps would put some stuff out of range of mortars more.
Bases are also a problem. How do you make them defensively good, but not overpowered? As it is they are too easy to crack, especially if the enemy has any coordination. Last three games are good examples. GL helo's in pairs. If something shoots at 1, the other snuffs it out. CWIS, Talons etc. Last game was 2 GL Helos and Rocket Helo following an upgunned humvee. It was the start of the match. We'd just gotten the FOB placed
The problem I see is you can individually balance a lot of this shit, but its way tougher to balance at scale. You can have your single helo vs a talon, or even two. Or vs a CWIS, but... when you start flying multiple Helos in one sortie and poor Bob the builder can only get up 1 Talon and maybe a CWIS before they arrive? Yeah, he's fucked. If you make the base stronger and requiring great effort to crack, we're just going to see tonnes of base spam. We'll optimize the fun out of anything
iirc I think they've accepted or have stated that there will never be a "true balance." There will always be powerful stuff, but I think they're aiming for a paper rock scissors approach; without a couple patches, hard to say if they'll be a 'nerf the fun' or 'add more fun' kind of developer. Though I don't really know how that'll work with the GL Helo, as that is probably one of the single most oppresive things i've seen. To me, the attack birds don't even hold a candle..
I've been trying to think of a comeback mechanic that isn't just overtly giving you points, cutting costs, or increasing arsenal capabilities... but the idea of a map being bigger.. ugh. There is so much interesting stuff outside the combat zone's main area.. one map has an incredibly high tower that 40% of its surrounding is damn near sheer cliff face. I almost wish the combat zone would morph like an amoeba based off deficit.. start building drills further back pulling the HZ closer to HQ.. some kind of BF Rush element to have the map ebb n flow.
Could be a hot take, but I think the FAL/RFB is perfect in the sorta Revive meta, and the problem is the other guns.. a 308 hitting you in 3-5 shots on T4 depending on FMJ/AP is absolutely perfect, balanced, and feels great.. 5.56? 5.45? 8-11 shots; criminal. It should be a third~ less than that.. will make HP rounds feel more in line with just an overall TTK decrease. It'll also shift how fights are handled because a person can be equally oppressive with strong positioning.
also give me a 308 or 3030 for the scout; I want to use that thing so badly.
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Sludig
Potato del Grande
- 12,274
- 13,404
Sludig
Potato del Grande
- 12,274
- 13,404
Maybe another t4 nerf is you can't fly with it in any of the pilot/door gunner. Would need to let passengers unfortunately .
They did say a lot to add, id love a fixable rocket though they might be adverse to making a hyper controllable one like in bf.
I already said direct fire weapons, base 50bmg or even like a small 20mm cannon.
I see 249 humvees which still seem tough to aim with the sensitivity forces so low, but not really any minigun humvees, hard to get 308 ap but I imagine that would actually be a really good aa. Just comes long after weeks of helo rape.
Sludig
Potato del Grande
- 12,274
- 13,404
Also lot to read so sorry for a few short replies fanaskin style but I'm at work so hard to work a thesis at once.
GL probably should go. You don't see it a lot in games imo because it's too hard to balance having 6 he rounds on hand fast unless they need to be almost unusable small radius, damage, etc. Should replace with single shot break action, or maybe try just a pretty long refire delay. From the free times I've picked up one I was at pretty close to cqb distance and still just hip fitting it into ground/wall as people appeared to great effect.
GL probably should go. You don't see it a lot in games imo because it's too hard to balance having 6 he rounds on hand fast unless they need to be almost unusable small radius, damage, etc. Should replace with single shot break action, or maybe try just a pretty long refire delay. From the free times I've picked up one I was at pretty close to cqb distance and still just hip fitting it into ground/wall as people appeared to great effect.