Byr
Potato del Grande
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i cant tell if your serious with this example related to what you said before it.
Wildstar Launch Thread - Server: Stormtalon | Faction: Dominion
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Lithose
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What was said before was said by him, the quotation on this board only puts things in italics unless you pull it from the reply with quote button (Which I edited in later)
Byr
Potato del Grande
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Valderen
Space Pirate
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I do my socializing in MMO in guild chat, and to a limited extent in general and trade chat, and more importantly, I do it in teamspeak with a group of friends who have been playing MMO with me for over 10 years, or with current guild member who have access to our teamspeak.
Dungeons...seriously not a place to socialize for me, that is when I am actively playing the game and focused on getting shit done period. Most of the time anyways I do dungeons with my friends and we are on teamspeak anyways.
When I use the LFD tool it is to fill a spot, and honestly I don't really give a shit about the person as long as they can decently perform.
To be honest, if anything has killed socializing in dungeons in the last 10 years it's teamspeak and ventrilo. Talking is simply more efficient than typing. Even they were to bring back old style dungeons with camps, it would not bring socializing back to the way it was since most people in the group would just be on teamspeak or ventrilo anyways.
That's just me though.
Dungeons...seriously not a place to socialize for me, that is when I am actively playing the game and focused on getting shit done period. Most of the time anyways I do dungeons with my friends and we are on teamspeak anyways.
When I use the LFD tool it is to fill a spot, and honestly I don't really give a shit about the person as long as they can decently perform.
To be honest, if anything has killed socializing in dungeons in the last 10 years it's teamspeak and ventrilo. Talking is simply more efficient than typing. Even they were to bring back old style dungeons with camps, it would not bring socializing back to the way it was since most people in the group would just be on teamspeak or ventrilo anyways.
That's just me though.
I blew a gasket over a very specific point that had been brought up in other games dungeon designs when I entered this thread. Here is what I could have said. I firmly believe that the the individual player is there for the group, the group is not there for the individual player. To me that should be a common view. In a perfect world the group would be there for the individual player when it comes to helping the player with unknown mechanics or that lore item behind the pack that doesn't need to be pulled to complete the instance, etc. The world is not perfect though and sometimes, it may feel like more often than not in a daily run of a McDungeon, the group doesn't want to do it the way you do. Your options are now to adapt to the group or find another group. I could have said all that or something similar when I entered the thread instead of blowing a gasket but to me the concept the group over individual is such a basic concept and such a basic part of human interaction that in my mind I shouldn't have to explain the concept.
@Lithose-If you are going to quote me, apply the same context to the quote that I used, not your own. You're the second person in one page to fudge the context so you can take off running in a different direction. If you had applied the correct context to thethat's not it's job. It's job is to put together groups as fast as possible.quote you would have realized that the person I was railing at said that current LFD tools do not have the ability to group people with people they have grouped with before over people they haven't. I said that's not it's job. I left out "part of it's current" in between not and job, sorry. What I didn't type, nor have I ever typed in this thread is that current/future LFD tools should be limited to just forming groups quickly. That is not my view of what a LFD tool should be, I never typed that....ever. Taking what I have typed, removing my context/the context of the conversation the quote was cherry-picked from and then adding your own context will cause you to think I said something like that, but just because you think I did does not mean that I actually did. I am pleasantly surprised you caughteven if it's base premise remains the same.and all that went with it in your post and edited it out since it undermined the primary point of you post regardless of who's context was applied to my quote. I still have my full response, I'll pm it to you if you want. Up to you.
@Lithose-If you are going to quote me, apply the same context to the quote that I used, not your own. You're the second person in one page to fudge the context so you can take off running in a different direction. If you had applied the correct context to thethat's not it's job. It's job is to put together groups as fast as possible.quote you would have realized that the person I was railing at said that current LFD tools do not have the ability to group people with people they have grouped with before over people they haven't. I said that's not it's job. I left out "part of it's current" in between not and job, sorry. What I didn't type, nor have I ever typed in this thread is that current/future LFD tools should be limited to just forming groups quickly. That is not my view of what a LFD tool should be, I never typed that....ever. Taking what I have typed, removing my context/the context of the conversation the quote was cherry-picked from and then adding your own context will cause you to think I said something like that, but just because you think I did does not mean that I actually did. I am pleasantly surprised you caughteven if it's base premise remains the same.and all that went with it in your post and edited it out since it undermined the primary point of you post regardless of who's context was applied to my quote. I still have my full response, I'll pm it to you if you want. Up to you.
Ukerric
Bearded Ape
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That's not what market research companies see.
Yep, the MMO market is sinking (oh wait, the subscription-based MMO market is indeed shrinking... replaced by B2P/F2P models).Newzoo_sl said:
Not that I don't agree that the current crop of MMO offerings are relatively lacking in features that would play to the perceived strengths of Massively Multiplayer. But that they have to change because the sky is falling is incorrect.
Abefroman
Naxxramas 1.0 Raider
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Honestly I'm thinking we just have a bunch of people here that don't know how to make friends or something.
Only one mechanic makes dungeons social, downtime. That's it no secret to it.
The only real thing I would like added to LFD is the ability to plus or minus people so I have a better chance of grouping with them or not.
Only one mechanic makes dungeons social, downtime. That's it no secret to it.
The only real thing I would like added to LFD is the ability to plus or minus people so I have a better chance of grouping with them or not.
Kirun
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This is it, right here. Dungeons nowadays are active and require a bit of paying attention, so the need to pass time by "socializing" is no longer there. You can complete anentiredungeon in the amount of time it used to take for one mob to respawn. I didn't give a shit about you or your life in EQ either. I just pretended like I did, because there was fuckall to do for the 30 minutes it took for a camp to respawn. Fuck, even if that game existed nowadays, most people would alt-tab and look at the internet for that 30 minutes. A luxury we didn't really have 14 years ago.
Lithose
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The thing about market research is you have the be very careful in understanding their methodology and nomenclature. Newzoo takes into account a lot of games we wouldnotcall MMOs, as MMOs. Like for example,League of Legends is considered an MMO in this report.In fact League of Legends is the number 1 fastest growingMMOin America (Did you guys know that?? LoL #1 MMO America!!!)
Also, manyApp/Browser based persistent strategy "P2W" games are "MMOs". In fact, this awesome game,Wizard101is the second fastest growing MMO in America. (World of Tanks is the fastest in Europe and it's high in the U.S. too.)
Now, does anyone here consider the above MMOs? Anyone? No (Well maybe Wizards 101)? Didn't think so.
I also covered this growth, though I admit I was nebulous in describing it....
So yeah, I'll say again, if the MMO space wants to continue to get their shit pushed in by browser based, resource management games, or small arena Pay2Win games which will soon all be designed for tablet/phone play, then by all means, they are headed in the right direction.
But the actual MMO market that WE understand as MMOs? Shrinking.
I haven't read this whole debate on mmo friends and the lfg tool, but what if after completing a dungeon or disbanding a group a little box popped up and you could rate the group 1-5. Then when using the lfg tool if those people are also in que the tool would take people's past votes into consideration and group you together. Does the WoW one already do this? It's been a while since I played.
Ukerric
Bearded Ape
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But I do. I've played some of these. In fact, on this very sub-forum, there's an entire thread devoted to one of those "non-MMO". You group up with a few dozens/hundreds of people, with objectives, on a shared world with thousands. What's not MMO in that?
It's not a MMORPG. Granted. But then, RPGs in general are on the wane, replaced mostly with "action RPGs". The golden era of RPG games was.. second half of the nineties + the first half of the noughties. Quite unsurprisingly, it appears to also have been the golden era of MMORPGs as well.
Abefroman
Naxxramas 1.0 Raider
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Last time I played WoW was cata. I remember several times when a group was real good and I simply said "Wanna requeue?" Majority of time people said yes and we did more dungeons together. I would later exchange battletags and contact those people to do dungeons. People everyday make friends with other people in WoW. Would it be nice if LFD had more options? Yes. I think the problem is we have a lot of people who are shy and have trouble meeting or making friends and want something to almost force people to talk to them.
Tmac
Adventurer
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So, you basically want more LFD options, but feel like everyone else who wants them are nerds, so you don't want them.
Flawless argument.
Tmac
Adventurer
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Abefroman_sl said:
I think the point you're continuing to miss is that modern MMO's do some pretty cool things, but they're moving away from what made MMO's great in the first place. The solution isnotforcing people to talk in groups...for the umpteenth time. The solution is creating tools that allow people to jump in the action while promoting social circles.
The current iteration does the former, but not the later.
Abefroman
Naxxramas 1.0 Raider
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No, I simpley don't blame the downfall of MMO society on a LFD tool and act like it's impossible to keep track of people you want to group with. Everything in MMOs can be improved.
Tmac
Adventurer
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We're talking about improving LFD. What's your beef? I'm not the drama queen here.
Ambiturner
Ssraeszha Raider
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Why? It's a thread about Wildstar that got derailed because people weren't happy it had LFD and blamed it on everything bad the world has experienced in the last 5 years. If want pointless discussion on ideas you'd like to see in future MMOs take it to the EQnext forum with the other tards
Abefroman
Naxxramas 1.0 Raider
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The tools are already there and have been there for awhile. Friends lists, battletags, ignore lists etc. The system you want actually promotes LESS social interaction because it automates everything for you. It really isn't that hard to add someone to a friend list and then invite them in the future and fill in the blanks with the LFD.I'm sorry I hurt your feelings.
I think the point you're continuing to miss is that modern MMO's do some pretty cool things, but they're moving away from what made MMO's great in the first place. The solution isnotforcing people to talk in groups...for the umpteenth time. The solution is creating tools that allow people to jump in the action while promoting social circles.
The current iteration does the former, but not the later.