World of Warcraft: Classic

suineg

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The discussion is whether there'll be "progression raids" in classic or not.

If you think 15 years of knowing the strategies, mechanics, bis gear, specs haven't mostly eliminated the need to spend all night learning how to down one or two bosses then please explain why

PS

The current train of thought is that Bosses on Northdale have higher armour than they will in classic, so if anything content will be easier
The people who play on private servers are different.
The codebase on private servers are different.

Everything about it is so different.

This is where I would normally say to most people “I can’t understand how you are this dense” but right now it feels like picking on a child.
 

a c i d.f l y

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So to take it a step further let's look at some of the stacking people do on the private servers and intend to do on the live game.

These are just possible world buffs on top of your normal class buffs and consumables. It is not uncommon for groups to stack as many of the above buffs and get to the raid instance and log out just to keep the timers. It is also one of the reasons fury warriors are so strong is due to the way they scale.

Take a look at the list below to get an idea of the consumables you should bring if you want to min/max.

Comprehensive Classic WoW Consumables List

Then it just keeps going. If you are going to be useful to your raid and min/mix there are tons of potions buffs and other items you will need to get which pretty much all but flasks are wiped upon death. So having everything from potions, food buffs, whiper root tubers, engineering items, the list goes on and on.

Then you get to the point of how much mix, max do you want to go. There absolutely will be split runs of content such as MC with a mix of peoples alts and mains. Running MC, Ony 4-5 times a week funneling peoples mains through for gear.

Then we have the PVP grind pushing Rank 14's through week after week running 12+ hour days or even more likely account sharing by some. Because make no mistake the Rank 14 gear is better than BWL gear in many cases.

These are just some examples of what to expect out of the ultra hard core guilds going into Classic. What level of prep is reasonable and what is too much? This is actually a decent question I would be interested in your guys thoughts.

Also don't forget that classic is a game beyond just raiding in no small part because of consumables and prepping the best you can before you even step foot in a raid.
Irony is you don't even need any of that shit to do the content quickly. Unless I just happened to have a buff on hand, what's the fuckin point? Saves a couple minutes? At most used flasks for Naxx and latter AQ fights, maybe nature absorb pots for Huhu. Didn't even bother in MC/BWL.

How fast are they clearing with all of that bullshit (that's gonna be pared down heavily in classic to match true vanilla)? MC+BWL clears were down to 90ish min at the end of vanilla with half the raid as alts before the 2.0 patch.
 

Noodleface

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Irony is you don't even need any of that shit to do the content quickly. Unless I just happened to have a buff on hand, what's the fuckin point? Saves a couple minutes? At most used flasks for Naxx and latter AQ fights, maybe nature absorb pots for Huhu. Didn't even bother in MC/BWL.

How fast are they clearing with all of that bullshit (that's gonna be pared down heavily in classic to match true vanilla)? MC+BWL clears were down to 90ish min at the end of vanilla with half the raid as alts before the 2.0 patch.
They're killing bosses in 60-90 seconds IN NAXX with those buffs
 

Archmage Lightning Lord Rule

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Blizzard should do something similar to the second quest in the original Legend of Zelda and just completely change up all the raid mechanics for all the bosses, and what stats are on what items.
It wouldn't slow down the poopsockers that much, but the salt would be absolutely glorious!
 

Kaige

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Blizzard should do something similar to the second quest in the original Legend of Zelda and just completely change up all the raid mechanics for all the bosses, and what stats are on what items.
It wouldn't slow down the poopsockers that much, but the salt would be absolutely glorious!
Or do a Light/Dark world like Link to the Past where you switch factions with the whole world being a mirror reverse and have to fight weird new bosses.
 
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a c i d.f l y

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They're killing bosses in 60-90 seconds IN NAXX with those buffs
Curious about total clear times. In Wrath, Naxx was cleared in less than an hour before Ulduar came out. Obviously not an equal comparison, I just don't remember Naxx clear times back in vanilla other than it being over 4 hours, depending on how shit lordy folks were on Thaddius or DDR.
 

Ossoi

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The people who play on private servers are different.
The codebase on private servers are different.

Everything about it is so different.

This is where I would normally say to most people “I can’t understand how you are this dense” but right now it feels like picking on a child.
Calls me dense and ignores the following

"The current train of thought is that Bosses on Northdale have higher armour than they will in classic, so if anything content will be easier"

Actually you didn't rebuff any of my points at all

Majority of Progression in original wow = figuring out mechanics of each fight and how to overcome those mechanics

Everyone knows them now, therefore the challenge is reduced significantly. How is this not obvious.
 

yamikazo

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You could just as easily say majority of progression in BfA wow is figuring out mechanics, but how many people can't even live through LFR bosses?
 

Chris

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So to take it a step further let's look at some of the stacking people do on the private servers and intend to do on the live game.

These are just possible world buffs on top of your normal class buffs and consumables. It is not uncommon for groups to stack as many of the above buffs and get to the raid instance and log out just to keep the timers. It is also one of the reasons fury warriors are so strong is due to the way they scale.

Take a look at the list below to get an idea of the consumables you should bring if you want to min/max.

Comprehensive Classic WoW Consumables List

Then it just keeps going. If you are going to be useful to your raid and min/mix there are tons of potions buffs and other items you will need to get which pretty much all but flasks are wiped upon death. So having everything from potions, food buffs, whiper root tubers, engineering items, the list goes on and on.

Then you get to the point of how much mix, max do you want to go. There absolutely will be split runs of content such as MC with a mix of peoples alts and mains. Running MC, Ony 4-5 times a week funneling peoples mains through for gear.

Then we have the PVP grind pushing Rank 14's through week after week running 12+ hour days or even more likely account sharing by some. Because make no mistake the Rank 14 gear is better than BWL gear in many cases.

These are just some examples of what to expect out of the ultra hard core guilds going into Classic. What level of prep is reasonable and what is too much? This is actually a decent question I would be interested in your guys thoughts.

Also don't forget that classic is a game beyond just raiding in no small part because of consumables and prepping the best you can before you even step foot in a raid.
Why do people keep posting this "private server" shit? We did this in vanilla.

We didn't get the full list, the 30 min and maybe the Dire Maul ones are ridiculous (I think the Tanks may have done Dire Maul before a raid occasionally), but we got the reasonable ones.

We would do something like kill Onyxia before the real raid then proc the buff either before the raid for farming or once we knew we only needed a little boost to get a new kill.

And yeah there were definitely situations with the whole raid going Orgrimmar for a buff, then STV for a buff then on to BLW while popping anything else they had before the boss.
 

Ossoi

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So to take it a step further let's look at some of the stacking people do on the private servers and intend to do on the live game.

These are just possible world buffs on top of your normal class buffs and consumables. It is not uncommon for groups to stack as many of the above buffs and get to the raid instance and log out just to keep the timers. It is also one of the reasons fury warriors are so strong is due to the way they scale.

Take a look at the list below to get an idea of the consumables you should bring if you want to min/max.

Comprehensive Classic WoW Consumables List

Then it just keeps going. If you are going to be useful to your raid and min/mix there are tons of potions buffs and other items you will need to get which pretty much all but flasks are wiped upon death. So having everything from potions, food buffs, whiper root tubers, engineering items, the list goes on and on.

Then you get to the point of how much mix, max do you want to go. There absolutely will be split runs of content such as MC with a mix of peoples alts and mains. Running MC, Ony 4-5 times a week funneling peoples mains through for gear.

Then we have the PVP grind pushing Rank 14's through week after week running 12+ hour days or even more likely account sharing by some. Because make no mistake the Rank 14 gear is better than BWL gear in many cases.

These are just some examples of what to expect out of the ultra hard core guilds going into Classic. What level of prep is reasonable and what is too much? This is actually a decent question I would be interested in your guys thoughts.

Also don't forget that classic is a game beyond just raiding in no small part because of consumables and prepping the best you can before you even step foot in a raid.
Others have claimed here that world buff stacking was a thing in vanilla

Onyxia handins have a reduced respawn on ND so won't be possible in classic, unless your guild coordinates with other guilds to sync their hand ins, which is unlikely if you're on different schedules

ZG buff persisted through death until 1.12, so perhaps we'll start with 1.12 in classic

World buffs were probably the biggest "why didn't we think about that" moment I had on northdale.
 

Daezuel

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Imagine thinking people clearing Naxx the first time didn't know about bis gear, specs, and world buffs.

Private servers had no access to boss scripts or the server side databases, they've been shown to be incorrect many times because all they could do is best guess. I seriously doubt them overestimating armor is going to make raids easier than private servers considering how much they have wrong.

Sure, shit will go down faster but private servers have faster spawn rates on shit like Black Lotus (1-2 hours in classic), shorter timers for world buffs, and the like. I mean duh, knowing the boss strats and having done them many times in the past is going to make the content way easier, especially using 1.12 and not having the raids being bugged to fuck.

So some poopsockers will level alts and raid multiple times a week and down everything immediately but the majority of people are not some no life Euro that can ditch work for 3 months at a time.

The majority of people won't even hit 60, then the casuals will take a long time to get there and probably be carried through the content anyways.

The people that would play on a private server at all, then raid and get full world buffs and shit like that are nothing like the typical wow player.
 
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Ukerric

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5 skill points or whatever it is = more dps = more tps.

Not sure about the health Regen thing. I guess that could be more threat
5 skill points also drops 1% of your +hit requirements, which changes a bit which items you want since you need only +8% instead of +9% to max a boss.

(if I remember right a wowhead discussion)
 

suineg

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Calls me dense and ignores the following

"The current train of thought is that Bosses on Northdale have higher armour than they will in classic, so if anything content will be easier"

Actually you didn't rebuff any of my points at all

Majority of Progression in original wow = figuring out mechanics of each fight and how to overcome those mechanics

Everyone knows them now, therefore the challenge is reduced significantly. How is this not obvious.
I can’t understand how you are this dense.
 

Ossoi

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I can’t understand how you are this dense.
Ok clarify for me then, do you think classic progression will be identical or similar to how it was in 2004-TBC when guilds were slowly clearing their way through MC, trying to figure out how Onyxia worked, cock blocked by Vael, gearing up additional tanks 4HM etc etc and when people only had forums like this one to share ideas and potential strats

How many people knew nature resistance gear was necessary for Visc and Huhu? Or that Sappers cheese the shatter phase of Visc. And Frost Res for Sapphiron?

Every aspect of the game has been figured out, regardless of pvt server accuracy, there's very little if anything left to learn. Every encounter has the strategies with videos on YouTube

Sure, bad players and guilds will always be present, there are guilds on ND that haven't entered AQ yet, but the content is not going to be the obstacle to progress this time round.
 
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ZyyzYzzy

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Ok clarify for me then, do you think classic progression will be identical or similar to how it was in 2004-TBC when guilds were slowly clearing their way through MC, trying to figure out how Onyxia worked, cock blocked by Vael, gearing up additional tanks 4HM etc etc and when people only had forums like this one to share ideas and potential strats

How many people knew nature resistance gear was necessary for Visc and Huhu? Or that Sappers cheese the shatter phase of Visc. And Frost Res for Sapphiron?

Every aspect of the game has been figured out, regardless of pvt server accuracy, there's very little if anything left to learn. Every encounter has the strategies with videos on YouTube

Sure, bad players and guilds will always be present, there are guilds on ND that haven't entered AQ yet, but the content is not going to be the obstacle to progress this time round.
Have you ever played with the average WoW player? Also I'm going to say a lot of current WoW players who are currently playing and will play the classic server, weren't playing classic or even TBC