World of Warcraft: Current Year

Fyff said:

What system is really worse though?

World Quests are the same.

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Literally everything.

World quests work similarly, but are far less compelling with the loss of mount rewards from the caches, and the chance of legendary drops.

Azerite sucks from start to finish, they took the grind from the artifact weapons and dropped all of the interesting parts. Where are the quests ? The lore ? The special abilities ? The sense of progression ? Now it's just - grats on your upgrade scrub, now you get to grind to have the same stuff you had 10 seconds ago. Enjoy.

Mythic+ should be the same, but is too focused on trying to make compelling esports viewing, the trash and layout of everything is designed from the outset to be aids infested as a fuck-you to the people who dared to skip or mass pull their precious trash in legion.

Boat missions are a pale hollow imitation of the order hall - everyone gets the same shit champions, no choice to make, there's no strategy that can 'win', it's just random, and even if there was, the rewards are garbage, so why bother ? The follower equipment is an atrocity.

The boat upgrades are the same for everyone, and they are bland, uninteresting, flaming garbage. Start with x resources in warfront ? What the fuck is this shit ? Compare this to stuff like the demon summons for warlocks, or the plants, or the monk brew keg from Legion. They couldn't have half-assed this one more if they'd tried.

Class balance isn't too bad, I'll give them that - class playability is all over the place though, and there was zero effort put into class quests for BFA.

War campaign vs Suramar - you are fucking kidding right ? Do I even need to say anything here ?

They even fucked up pet battles - if you want to level your pets you have to go to Pandaria, but they also invalidated all previous expansion's currencies, coz fuck you, you'll play BFA and you'll like it.

In fact, I think I'm actually going to suggest that's the official motto for BFA - 'Coz fuck you, that's why'. It's the obvious answer to questions about every design decision they've made.

velk said:

Literally everything.

World quests work similarly, but are far less compelling with the loss of mount rewards from the caches, and the chance of legendary drops.

Azerite sucks from start to finish, they took the grind from the artifact weapons and dropped all of the interesting parts. Where are the quests ? The lore ? The special abilities ? The sense of progression ? Now it's just - grats on your upgrade scrub, now you get to grind to have the same stuff you had 10 seconds ago. Enjoy.

Mythic+ should be the same, but is too focused on trying to make compelling esports viewing, the trash and layout of everything is designed from the outset to be aids infested as a fuck-you to the people who dared to skip or mass pull their precious trash in legion.

Boat missions are a pale hollow imitation of the order hall - everyone gets the same shit champions, no choice to make, there's no strategy that can 'win', it's just random, and even if there was, the rewards are garbage, so why bother ? The follower equipment is an atrocity.

The boat upgrades are the same for everyone, and they are bland, uninteresting, flaming garbage. Start with x resources in warfront ? What the fuck is this shit ? Compare this to stuff like the demon summons for warlocks, or the plants, or the monk brew keg from Legion. They couldn't have half-assed this one more if they'd tried.

Class balance isn't too bad, I'll give them that - class playability is all over the place though, and there was zero effort put into class quests for BFA.

War campaign vs Suramar - you are fucking kidding right ? Do I even need to say anything here ?

They even fucked up pet battles - if you want to level your pets you have to go to Pandaria, but they also invalidated all previous expansion's currencies, coz fuck you, you'll play BFA and you'll like it.

In fact, I think I'm actually going to suggest that's the official motto for BFA - 'Coz fuck you, that's why'. It's the obvious answer to questions about every design decision they've made.

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When did mount rewards come in from world Quests and how did that make it compelling? They sucked before and they suck now. Saying that 10 percent of the expansion you enjoyed getting a 1 percent drop isn't really all that compelling to me.

If you felt progression on artifacts you were the most ultra casual there was. By the middle of the first raid or earlier most people we're done getting new abilities. Even then, on the classes I played two thirds of your artifact powers were for shit abilities so you were spending points for zero gain. Class quests I could see. I'm not really a quests guy so I don't really care but j get it for others who like that stuff.

As far as Dungeons I would like to see dungeons with more routes and choices but I don't think there are more choices before then there are now. Right now there are three dungeons with real choices on how to approach it. In legion we had Court of Stars and Eye of Azshara. Now we have Atal, Mother lode and Freehold with some choices in Manor and underrot

At the start of Legion you had 1 extra order hall champion you couldn't equip and got more over the course of the expansion? That's a pretty hollow gripe. As far as rewards I'm glad they are useless. The table missions add nothing positive to the game for me. I'm glad that I can skip that shit and not worry over it while in legion I was on my phone all the time doing order hall missions like it was a job.

What classes have bad playability? I'm really curious because all of my alts feel really good. Almost all classes got extra buttons to replace the missing artifact.

I didn't find Suramar very compelling story wise but I'll acknowledge a lot of.people did. I like the alliance story in BFA. The Horde story felt mailed in and generic. Not sure which faction you are playing but I'm going to guess Horde.

Pet battles - I have never gotten a pet higher then level 4 so I have no idea. I do know it was the best way to get azerite and still is so I guess they are useful? They have added two pet battle dungeons this expansion does that help?

Look at Fyff pretending the GCD change and class ability pruning didn’t happen.

Fyff said:

As far as Dungeons I would like to see dungeons with more routes and choices but I don't think there are more choices before then there are now. Right now there are three dungeons with real choices on how to approach it. In legion we had Court of Stars and Eye of Azshara. Now we have Atal, Mother lode and Freehold with some choices in Manor and underrot

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Yea, It was only EoA and CoS. Arcway, DHT, Vault, Nelths Lair. No choices in any of those dungeons... You also didn't NEED a rogue to have a chance at timers in higher keys. There was way less trash in Legion and a lot more decision around which of it to pull. Some of the dungeons were linear but you still had options without needing a rogue to shroud skip or risky brez death skips. You HAVE to skip otherwise unskippable trash in pretty much every dungeon in BfA otherwise you will be over %. The trash was also far less annoying as a whole in Legion.

These are the results from this last East Cup Time Trials for the MDI. The top 8 teams make it to the weekend cup.

WoW Rankings - Raider.IO

There weren't even 8 teams that bothered to complete all 3 time trials. All 8 teams that even bothered to just do 1 dungeon for the time trial are in the cup this weekend. That's a pathetic, and very telling sign of the state of M+.

Class stacking is so extreme in both raiding and M+ right now. Not even entirely because of Soak Mechanics, like we saw with Legion. Just because some classes can ignore most mechanics and out DPS everyone else.

Can we get an IP check on fyff? Is he located in Irvine??

Ao- said:

I'm just gonna stop you here. You may like the game in it's current state, but using an opinion to weigh against someone else's fact-based counter just makes a bad argument.

Just stop.

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I gave facts before I gave my opinion. The fact is we lived 90 percent of Legion without his point so my counterpoint seems pretty valid and my opinion based on fact.

Khane said:

Yea, It was only EoA and CoS. Arcway, DHT, Vault, Nelths Lair. No choices in any of those dungeons... You also didn't NEED a rogue to have a chance at timers in higher keys. There was way less trash in Legion and a lot more decision around which of it to pull. Some of the dungeons were linear but you still had options without needing a rogue to shroud skip or risky brez death skips. You HAVE to skip otherwise unskippable trash in pretty much every dungeon in BfA otherwise you will be over %. The trash was also far less annoying as a whole in Legion.

These are the results from this last East Cup Time Trials for the MDI. The top 8 teams make it to the weekend cup.

WoW Rankings - Raider.IO

There weren't even 8 teams that bothered to complete all 3 time trials. All 8 teams that even bothered to just do 1 dungeon for the time trial are in the cup this weekend. That's a pathetic, and very telling sign of the state of M+.

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Thank you for the very well thought out response. I think the competitive scene is different then "the game". Just like competitive raiding is. Most players won't see it or care so the fact that teams didn't bother to compete is a non-issue for me. I will address your point though. Due to the current points standings entering this weekend's cup there were 6 teams who were not mathematically eliminated. Why bother showing up if you can't win? I think the design of the MDI should be changed and maybe you might see more teams compete in the third time trial.

Do I know for a fact that this is what caused teams to not compete? No. I just want to put that out there for AO.

I agree that there is too much trash. I would love to see some trash pruned or the needed percentages lowered. I don't remember DHT, Arcway or Nelths having much choice other then one or two packs but I will take your word for it. You did a lot more dungeons then I did.

As far as class stacking that someone mentioned, I haven't seen it in non-competitive guilds at all. I'm currently looking for guild so I have done a lot of raids with random guilds in mythic and none seem to class stack like the top point one percent.

Foggy As far as the GCD change, that effected everyone. I'm not pretending it didn't happen. I have been asking for months now every time this conversation comes up for someone to tell me which class feels bad. I've played half of them and none of them feel bad to me. Do I think the GCD change was dumb? Yes. Do I think the game is worse then legion because 1 or 2 abilities are on the GCD? No.

Every single class feels worse than in a Legion. Every single one.

hot take: with how powerful secondaries have become already, most classes feel pretty fine if you get geared

GCD changes are still completely fucking retarded though. Prot paladin fuckin.. wings->gcd->seraphim->gcd->trinket->gcd->can finally pull ..whoever though that shit was acceptable should be shot in the dick

Foggy said:

Every single class feels worse than in a Legion. Every single one.

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Havoc has one ability that changed from off GCD to on. It makes no difference to anything in the world. They made several abilities stronger and with azerite traits you have options to how you want to play and it massively changes your burst windows. It feels so much better then Legion where you spammed movement keys to try and pick up little floating balls and mashed two keys.

Demonology got nerfed but it feels better then legion. Blood DK feels the exact same as legion it's just not as powerful. The other two classes I have at max I didn't play in legion so I can't comment on if they feel better or worse but I know they feel fine.

So no, not every class. In fact, my Hunter felt like shit in legion. You know why? I got shit legendaries. After I got three bad ones I shelved the character because I was 15 percent damage behind someone with the same ilvl and skill level. So I guess in legion for your toon to feel good you had to win the lottery.

I think if you aren't top 200 world you aren't class stacking except to emulate what top guilds did. I know for sure we never class stacked and we were one of those mediocre mythic guilds that hovers around 1000 world

Only class stacking necessary is having at least 1 dh and 1 monk for +physical and +magic dmg

preferably also a mage and priest but you can get away with shitty scrolls for int/fort

The monk isn't even needed if you prune your melee down to 1 DH

Foggy said:

Every single class feels worse than in a Legion. Every single one.

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It was hilarious levelling from 100 to 110 and getting less powerful!

Shut the fuck up.you idiots it's exactly the same as legion retard fags

Kuro said:

The monk isn't even needed if you prune your melee down to 1 DH

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That's true, I forgot nobody takes melee but I main a ret paladin and offclass a feral druid so you could say I'm on the spectrum

xzi said:

That's true, I forgot nobody takes melee but I main a ret paladin and offclass a feral druid so you could say I'm on the spectrum

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Ret paladins are fucking insane right now on certain fights. I think paladin is the most underrated class in the game right now. All three specs can be monsters.

Fyff said:

Havoc has one ability that changed from off GCD to on. It makes no difference to anything in the world. They made several abilities stronger and with azerite traits you have options to how you want to play and it massively changes your burst windows. It feels so much better then Legion where you spammed movement keys to try and pick up little floating balls and mashed two keys.

Demonology got nerfed but it feels better then legion. Blood DK feels the exact same as legion it's just not as powerful. The other two classes I have at max I didn't play in legion so I can't comment on if they feel better or worse but I know they feel fine.

So no, not every class. In fact, my Hunter felt like shit in legion. You know why? I got shit legendaries. After I got three bad ones I shelved the character because I was 15 percent damage behind someone with the same ilvl and skill level. So I guess in legion for your toon to feel good you had to win the lottery.

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The demo nerfs are not even that much unless you were stacking multiple explosive potentials and that was a nerf a blind man could see coming. My haste with two was fucking stupid haha. Still demo is way way more fun than in legion and my damage in dungeons/raids is really high. Even the classes that were lacking early are starting to feel solid again as the secondary stats come up to full force and people have enough haste so you don't get gaps in your rotations. The come down from legion was just extra brutal which made them feel a lot worse initially.