World of Warcraft: Current Year

Foggy said:

Every single class feels worse than in a Legion. Every single one.

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Demo warlock is head and shoulder better. Boomkin feels just as good as legion. Beast mastery hunter feel better than legion.

The gcd changes hit some classes way harder than others. Take demo warlock they had basically one power that was even impacted same with boomkin. Some classes like rogues felt really bad till they walked a bunch of those changes back.

Can someone find the worst fyff post

Can you find the needle in the stack of needles?

Foggy said:

Can you find the needle in the stack of needles?

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Ow, my hands.

Noodleface said:

Can someone find the worst fyff post

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What's wrong with my posts? When someone else has a valid point I recognize it and try and discuss it. I ask pointed questions that are generally unanswered because this thread is more autistic screeching by angry dudes who are upset their guild leader fucked them.

I can't help that I was a beloved leader

BFA is slowly improving, but it started off so poorly I'm unsure how well it can recover. I think they kind of doomed themselves with a stat squish, ability pruning & poor transition from legendaries to azerite all occurring around the same time.

Some of the biggest issues imo:

1. Azerite was initially very weak compared to legendaries. The loss of legendaries, the loss of abilities for some classes (ie. artifact weapon abilities removed entirely for some specs) and no new abilities made your character feel weaker. Every time you levelled up, you actually felt weaker than the previous level. Something that should never happen.
2. Islands & warfronts were marketed as a big part of BFA. However, this content ended up being extremely simple, unrewarding and just fell flat.
3. M+ trash was initially overtuned. They wanted to stop the trend of "pulling the entire instance" that we saw in Legion. This resulted in basically every trash pack having some sort of unique ability, trying to reinforce the "dungeon crawl" experience. But it just resulted in annoying dungeons. Even to this day a number of trash packs are just unreasonably strong and people go out of their way to ignore them. The M+ experience has improved, but I think it was better in Legion.
4. Azerite system in general was/is horrible.
   1. You have to grind out AP to unlock azerite abilities (recall in legion if you got the gear, class set etc you could use it immediately). This led to scenarios of getting a nice upgrade that you couldn't even use yet
   2. Initially "good" azerite came from 3 sources.
      1. M+ cache (You had to pray for RNG that 1) you actually got azerite and 2) you got a piece that was actually good out of the like 15-20 different azerite pieces that could drop
      2. Raiding (Removal of Master Looter made this more frustrating to get)
      3. PvP (Rng based from weekly chest, and dependent on your PvP rating. Yes, there were weeks that provided guaranteed AP once reaching 500 conquest, but it was low ilvl azerite until close to the end of the season)
   3. You needed Multiple sets of azerite, because they were not easily interchangeable between specs. The gold cost to use the same azerite piece for multiple specs was insane if you switched consistently, and you had to return to the city everytime you had to change, which was and still is retarded.
      1. Multiple sets wouldn't have been horrible, but due to the above, obtaining multiple sets of azerite that are actually decent pieces of azerite was very, very difficult and took far too long.
   4. Grinding AP simply gave you a 2 ilvl upgrade everytime you levelled your neck. Recall that artifact weapons gave small rewards every few levels that made you actually feel like your character was increasing in power. In comparison, the artifact necklace was pretty lame.
5. Removal of Master Looter. At the beginning of any tier, this change hits mythic raiding guilds the hardest, but as you get farther into any tier, it affects more and more of the playerbase, and it feels quite bad. The biggest issue you see is getting a piece of gear that is absolutely worthless for you, but a big upgrade for another player. However, you cannot trade it. I think the most frustrating example would be trinkets & weapons. Weapons in particular, because you have to have the SAME TYPE of weapon at that ilvl to be able to trade it. So if you have a 415 2 hander that you use, and get a 415 1 hander, you cannot trade it. Sorry. Very stupid, and feels horrible.
6. Titanforging & RNG:
   1. This is relatively similar to Legion. Not a lot changed. But the combination of Master Looter being removed, legendaries being removed & artifact weapons being removed meant that more gear had to be obtained through other means.
   2. The removal of class sets also makes titanforging/warforging more powerful, so not getting a titanforged or warforged piece of gear feels worse in BFA than it did in Legion.
7. Removal of class sets:
   1. This made characters/specs feel even worse. Refer to the first point. Not only did we lose artifact abilites (many specs at least), legendary abilities and just simply lost some abilities due to changes, we also lost class sets, further making specs more 1 dimensional than they were in Legion.
   2. Classes lost unique transmogs. Transmogs are now based on armor type (leather, plate, cloth, mail) instead of class, losing the number of transmog options available. While it is a minor issue, it really sucks for those people who enjoy going after transmogs.
8. The "monthly" Q/A's with Ion & Josh/Lore
   1. I appreciate the attempt to increase communication, but these Q/A's did more harm than good imo. They basically just confirmed to their playerbase that, yes, they understand some things could be better, but no, they don't have any immediate plans to improve things. Without a Q/A, you at least felt like they might make good changes. With the Q/A, they were confirming that they will not be making good changes.

The biggest issue with BFA, however, is that it didn't introduce anything that was better than Legion. If you wanted a TLDR for the above, BFA is basically a pruned version of Legion, where nothing is better but a few things are worse.

My personal belief is that the BFA team put class design at the bottom of their priority list, and they are paying for it. They basically just copy and pasted the Legion classes to BFA, but didn't consider what removing a number of abilities/items would do to the playstyle of each spec. You can add the greatest content in the world, but if the actual character you are playing is not fun, than why would you bother doing any of the content? Unfortunately, they didn't add the greatest content in the world, so they fucked up on all levels.

The same thing that Cataclysm suffered from. It was basically a pruned WoTLK where nothing was better but a few things were worse. Which was what people were predicting the second they got their hands on beta for BfA.

I would argue with warfronts being non rewarding. They may not be the most engaging content but the once per warfront quest offers what for all but higher end raiders a pretty significant gear upgrade and the highest level of appearance of that item. The warfront armor sets are really good looking and being able to access the advanced look and extra armor geometry without needing to be a top end PVP'er is pretty nice. Also the zones once they unlock had some nice mounts and are amazeballs for fresh alts. Just go there join a farm group and you probably get 2-3 upgrades that are 340+ ilevel.

The problem with Warfronts is they only switch factions once per month.

Yes they should have launched both of them right at the launch. Once there are two generally one is up or will be up shortly for most of the month. When there was only one it was a bit to uncommon although still pretty good way right off the bad to get your set of 340 gear for alts or fresh players.

Warfronts are the easiest most boring things in the game lol

I am really curious how the heroic warfront coming in 8.2 will work out.

It will take longer but be just as easy? It'll be like LFR (I assume) where they have to allow a certain amount of derp, or else no one will run the content.

OneofOne said:

It will take longer but be just as easy? It'll be like LFR (I assume) where they have to allow a certain amount of derp, or else no one will run the content.

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Exactly. It will take longer, thus will be 10x more annoying. The gear won't be good enough for raiders, so only idiots will be doing them, which is another 10x more aggravation on top of them being 10x more annoying.

Warfront mobs actually hit hard as shit and if left completely unchecked they easily take base bases, I imagine in heroic you actually have to actively participate or you will just lose.

Trinkets, rings, and weapons can't be obtained that way so you'll still need to raid for your most important pieces on every single class.

It's a pretty large grind to get them to 430, and will probably take you longer than if you just pugged half of heroic every week. Or did a m+. Or did arenas. Or crafted.

If you complain about the new gear vendor you're fucking stupid because it's what people have been asking for, for 2 expansions. NONE of the stats are random, and it can't titanforge. On top of that the gear has little bonuses when in the zones they come from, which is far more interesting than it's been before.

Is it really catchup gear if it still takes like 4 weeks to get one single piece to max?

& who even cares at this point, we're like 10 years past the point of gear mattering for anything other than the top 1% of the 1%. I'd like it to go back to 2 pieces dropping for 40 people but that will never happen in all of videogames again.

(outside of nostalgia re-releases)