World of Warcraft: Current Year

Can all but guarantee slapping a one floor only rule on 10min buffs (lust, loh, etc) is a lot easier than a random debuff which is sometimes magical sometimes physical that changes and increases every 2 minutes.

Or, very unpopular opinion, do what they do in RBGS and Arenas and just make them completely disabled.

Set all the really fancy cooldowns to only recharge when specific conditions are met rather than their regular timer. You can use them whenever you want but you only get them back if you do X or complete Y.

Or just let people sit and wait 10 minutes if they want to tryhard themselves to the top in 7 hours and let the rest of the people who are too impatient or DGAF go through it however they want as well.

It's literally not a problem. Blizzard just doesn't want Limit and Method to "artificially" inflate their guild/player power by doing this for the world first race.

I'm still gonna wait until what it actually plays like since the tower on alpha has been stated way more than once not what will be live, but there for testing reasons (like difficulties), but I still really fucking hate this stupid debuff. They are like "It's not enough to feel like you need to rush" but the fact that it is literally a timer is more than enough???????

Torghast looks fucking sick and this is the weirdest choice.

If being competitive requires doing something shitty people will do it and complain and the people not willing to do it will also complain.

Khane said:

Or just let people sit and wait 10 minutes if they want to tryhard themselves to the top in 7 hours and let the rest of the people who are too impatient or DGAF go through it however they want as well.

It's literally not a problem. Blizzard just doesn't want Limit and Method to "artificially" inflate their guild/player power by doing this for the world first race.

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They can just cap the legendary progress possible in a single run so going to floor 500 carries no advantage.

Arbitrary said:

If being competitive requires doing something shitty people will do it and complain and the people not willing to do it will also complain.

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You will never fix that human behavior. A timer sure as shit won't fix it. As such it's not a meaningful explanation, they're doing it to handcuff the bleeding edge, like they do with every interesting system with meaningful rewards in the game.

Khane said:

You will never fix that human behavior.

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You don't need to fix that human behavior. You need to not provide incentives for it.

Arbitrary said:

You don't need to fix that human behavior. You need to not provide incentives for it.

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So you think Torghast shouldn't have any rewards?

Khane said:

So you think Torghast shouldn't have any rewards?

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Like, I don't know why you're all pissy about people not being that keen on the optimal strategy to be several ten minute pauses. There's a bunch of ways to address that design flaw. You don't like Blizzard's proposed solution? Take it up with them.

How is that optimal? Who ever said the entirety of Torghast was designed around bloodlust or that waiting is somehow efficient?

If there is a reward people want and they are inclined to reach the goal of attaining that reward they will use whatever tools at their disposal to get it. This is not exclusive to Blizzard games, or games at all in fact. This is a fact of life and part of the human condition. The only way to "not incentivize" it is to remove any meaningful rewards from the activity, which I think everyone would agree is not reasonable or logical.

Slapping a timer on something because you don't like that the .01%ers are going to use it to beat your precious Mythic raid encounters faster than you'd like is also not a reasonable action to take. It's also a really fucking lazy "solution" that has wider reaching effects than just fixing that one thing they deem a problem.

Every game has gameplay loops similar to this and most of the companies who make said games do not go to the lengths Blizzard does to be your gaming nanny and force you to play their way under the false auspices of making it more fun for the playerbase as a whole.

And by the way I have taken it up with them. I've cancelled all my subs and likely won't buy another Blizzard product for a long, long time. Torghast would have changed that, but as things are shaking out right now that doesn't seem likely.

Ukerric said:

FTFY

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leveling in old MMOs was the most mind numbing boring shit ever “oh boy, I sit in a basement and pull skeletons for 6 hours”

Khane said:

If there is a reward people want and they are inclined to reach the goal of attaining that reward they will use whatever tools at their disposal to get it. This is not exclusive to Blizzard games, or games at all in fact. This is a fact of life and part of the human condition. The only way to "not incentivize" it is to remove any meaningful rewards from the activity, which I think everyone would agree is not reasonable or logical.

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This is just complete garbage masquerading around as insight. All that is called for here is putting some more work in to the systems themselves. That's it. "Wait ten minutes, repeat" as a strategy just reveals an oversight in design. Oh, you guys are going to wait so you can use all your cooldowns. Huh. Guess we should put some more thought in that. We'll get back to you.

I feel like realistically there isn't going to be a point of "wait ten minutes, repeat" because eventually the mobs are just going to fucking one shot you and there's nothing you can do about it... that's the entire point of an "infinite" floor design

They need to remove the death punishment of the big boi oneshotting you or they need to remove that debuff tbh, not have both

TJT said:

Absolutely wrong. It wasn't until wow decided that the game starts at max level as design philosophy that this became the case.

That began around wrath era more or less.

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That's a pretty straw man argument. I don't know how WoW is coded but putting some abilities on special timers for content and not others seems much more difficult from a coding standpoint than their current stance of all.

Fyff said:

That's a pretty straw man argument. I don't know how WoW is coded but putting some abilities on special timers for content and not others seems much more difficult from a coding standpoint than their current stance of all.

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Battle Rezzes. They already did it.

Fyff said:

Leveling in MMOs is not fun or engaging. Why they make it take so long is beyond me. The fact that their goal is to make max level for a new player take the time it would currently take without the exp buff or hierlooms is so stupid. I haven't leveled anything during this time but so many of my friends and guildies came back to play because of the exp buff.

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BFA leveling did seem to drag, but I get it being the pace it was initially to go through the new zones and fill out the little stories they want you to see in them. Maybe just have alt leveling bonuses always be at where they are now after you hit cap initially on your main, it would feel better. You do the grind once at the start, and never have to again.