Affluenza

Xequecal

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Also, I really should point out that the kid didn't "get off" in a legal sense, he was convicted. The judge just gave him a super-lenient sentence. This type of thing is going to happen from time to time when you give judges as much leeway in sentencing as we do. What do you want to do to fix it? Mandatory minimum sentences have a pretty poor track record when it comes to fairness for the poor and minorities, and implementing binding sentencing guidelines is actually unconstitutional. The Federal Sentencing Guidelines used to be binding, but the Supreme Court struck this down.
 

Khane

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This was an unconscionable decision on the judges part. A friend of mine stupidly drove drunk one night and crashed his truck into a tree. He didn't hurt anyone (even he was OK), there was nobody else in the car with him but he was pretty far over the legal limit. He was also driving without a license but from a different offense. He spent a year in jail.
 

Itlan

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In what world are restless driving and texting while driving not a big deal? Divots exist precisely for the reason of keeping people awake and not driving off the fucking road. You're even told if you're passing out while driving to pull over and nap. Officer will come to your window and just make sure you're not drunk, otherwise you're fine. And texting and driving is the dumbest fucking thing in the world, and the penalties are rising across the country because of it.
 

jooka

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Oh, please. The fanaticism about drunk driving has become goddamn ridiculous. It's not about public safety anymore, just about the demonization of alcohol consumption in general. There's a whole list of things that you can do in a car that are just as dangerous or more dangerous that people do all the time, but because it's not related to evil evil booze, nobody has this attitude about any of those.
name one.


EDIT your post sounds like you are driving drunk and texting.
 

Big Phoenix

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You realize this kid wasnt a .08, right? You also realize the kid was drunk AND using drugs, right?
 

Tuco

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Oh, please. The fanaticism about drunk driving has become goddamn ridiculous. It's not about public safety anymore, just about the demonization of alcohol consumption in general. There's a whole list of things that you can do in a car that are just as dangerous or more dangerous that people do all the time, but because it's not related to evil evil booze, nobody has this attitude about any of those.

I work the night shift. When I was getting used to it, I drove home a few times so tired I fell asleep at the wheel. During those times, I was more of a danger to everyone on the road than all but the worst of the drunks, but I can tell people about this and receive nothing more than mild censure at worst. Some people even have sympathy. Then there's texting while driving. Not only have studies shown that this is many times more dangerous than DUI, but there have been multiple high-profile accidents that resulted in a lot of deaths. It's also much easier to avoid doing than driving under the influence, and of course much easier to avoid driving home tired after working a bunch of hours. But because it's not related to EVIL alcohol consumption, it's not even illegal in many states, and in the others it's just equivalent to a speeding ticket. Nobody really cares if you do it, either.

I'm very skeptical of anyone who claims they've never driven under the influence unless they don't drink at all or very rarely. 0.08 BAC is very easy to hit, everyone metabolizes alcohol at different rates and it can even vary wildly in the same person. If you drink enough sometimes you're still at this level even after going to sleep and waking up in the morning, I'd bet quite a few of Monday morning commuters are still technically "drunk" from the previous night.
0.2 % of drivers are driving drunk yet drunk drivers cause 33% of fatalities from accidents. Yeah the penalties for driving buzzed are harsh but it's a serious problem.
 

a_skeleton_03

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Did we really have somebody "support" drunk driving because you could do other things worse in a car? For real?

For the record since you said you can't believe that we all don't drive under the influence, I personally never have.

Want to know why? Because I can control myself quite easily into drinking NOTHING when I need to drive. You went off on how complicated it is to do the math and metabolizing is different and all kinds of other bullshit. The math of 0 drinks when you need to drive is pretty damn simple.

I think you are just an alcoholic.
 

Xeldar

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Affluenza is when you have already VP decked out P99 toon, but want another decked out alt at the expense of other non-TMO members killing Phara Dar.
 

Xequecal

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Did we really have somebody "support" drunk driving because you could do other things worse in a car? For real?

For the record since you said you can't believe that we all don't drive under the influence, I personally never have.

Want to know why? Because I can control myself quite easily into drinking NOTHING when I need to drive. You went off on how complicated it is to do the math and metabolizing is different and all kinds of other bullshit. The math of 0 drinks when you need to drive is pretty damn simple.

I think you are just an alcoholic.
I don't "support" drunk driving, I just took exception to his assertion that it constitutes intent tonkill. That DUI is somehow worse than all the other irresponsible things you could possibly do that get someone killed that it should be the exception and count as murder instead of manslaughter. I also think this kid should go to prison, but executing him is ridiculous.
 

a_skeleton_03

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I don't "support" drunk driving, I just took exception to his assertion that it constitutes intent tonkill. That DUI is somehow worse than all the other irresponsible things you could possibly do that get someone killed that it should be the exception and count as murder instead of manslaughter. I also think this kid should go to prison, but executing him is ridiculous.
It does equate to intent to kill because you could have just not drank at all, called a cab, called a friend, shit almost anything.

It is worse than almost anything else you can do in the car because you know ahead of time you need to make the right decision and you didn't. There isn't a person in the USA that doesn't know "drunk driving is bad". I mean come on now.
 

Xequecal

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It does equate to intent to kill because you could have just not drank at all, called a cab, called a friend, shit almost anything.

It is worse than almost anything else you can do in the car because you know ahead of time you need to make the right decision and you didn't. There isn't a person in the USA that doesn't know "drunk driving is bad". I mean come on now.
I disagree. Texting and driving is the example I used because its clearly and obviously much easier to avoid doing. There's no possibility for confusion at all.

Also, I'm not trying to say that because texting is worse, that DUI is somehow OK. But the fact is, if this kid had instead had his face glued to his iPhone when he wiped out this family and received this sentence, no one would really care. It certainly wouldn't make the front page of CNN with people calling for his head. This is despite the fact that texting and drivinghas been shownto be more dangerous than DUI. This logical disconnect is a problem.

Also, in regards to your other post, I'm not skeptical when people say they don't habitually drive under the influence. I'm skeptical when they claim they've never done it once in their entire life, even in their stupid teenage years. I think this is an important point to make when people start saying we need to execute drunk drivers, because at that point we need to execute almost everyone.
 

Chanur

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Pretty sure states have started giving out manslaughter for texting and driving in these kinds of situations also.

Execution for drunk driving is stupid. How ever probation for mass killing is more so .
 

chaos

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I don't "support" drunk driving, I just took exception to his assertion that it constitutes intent tonkill. That DUI is somehow worse than all the other irresponsible things you could possibly do that get someone killed that it should be the exception and count as murder instead of manslaughter. I also think this kid should go to prison, but executing him is ridiculous.
Tuco just gave you real talk about why it is worse than other irresponsible things you can do. Other things are bad, fo sho. DUI is the worst, testably. Maybe driving while blind is worse, idk, I wasn't able to find data on that.

Also I think "intent" in the legal sense doesn't necessarily pair up with the real definition. Like, he didn't intend to kill people so much as he had absolutely no regard for the lives of other humans. There is more evidence than just the fact that he drove drunk to back this up. But that is definitely part of it.

Executing anyone is stupid, much less this kid. Pretty sure that was just hyperbole. But he should be in prison most definitely.
 

Khane

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It does equate to intent to kill because you could have just not drank at all, called a cab, called a friend, shit almost anything.

It is worse than almost anything else you can do in the car because you know ahead of time you need to make the right decision and you didn't. There isn't a person in the USA that doesn't know "drunk driving is bad". I mean come on now.
Let's tone it down with the righteous indignation shall we? You know what intent actually means right?
 

ZyyzYzzy

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I don't even get Xeq's argument. The kid was well above the 0.08. There is a big difference being blackout drunk and right at the threshold. Even the 0.08 is sort of assinine given such variability amongst people, and if anything should be lower, or google can hurry the hell up with KITT
 

Big Phoenix

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Tuco just gave you real talk about why it is worse than other irresponsible things you can do. Other things are bad, fo sho. DUI is the worst, testably. Maybe driving while blind is worse, idk, I wasn't able to find data on that.

Also I think "intent" in the legal sense doesn't necessarily pair up with the real definition. Like, he didn't intend to kill people so much as he had absolutely no regard for the lives of other humans. There is more evidence than just the fact that he drove drunk to back this up. But that is definitely part of it.

Executing anyone is stupid, much less this kid. Pretty sure that was just hyperbole. But he should be in prison most definitely.
No he should be executed.
 

Haast

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I don't even get Xeq's argument. The kid was well above the 0.08. There is a big difference being blackout drunk and right at the threshold. Even the 0.08 is sort of assinine given such variability amongst people, and if anything should be lower, or google can hurry the hell up with KITT
Yeah, in this case the kid blew a mind-blowing 0.24 and that was 3 hours AFTER the incident. He was ridiculously shitcanned. He was also going 70 in a 30 when he wrecked. In my opinion, he was so reckless an argument could be made for intent.

However, stepping away from this incident, I think texting while driving is nearly as dangerous and irresponsible as driving buzzed (at or near the 0.08 limit). It shows even more disregard, because you might not realize you are around 0.08 but you made the conscious decision to text while driving. However, driving staggering, slurry drunk is by far worse than texting.