Affluenza

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a_skeleton_03

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Khane_sl said:
Let's tone it down with the righteous indignation shall we? You know what intent actually means right?
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Yeah intent is making a conscious decision to do something despite knowing it is wrong when it comes to this conversation.

It means it isn't something like eating a burger and ketchup dripping out causing you to swerve a little. There is a huge leap from the myriad of dangerous things you can do and consciously driving with alcohol in your system.

It has a lot to do with the whole attitude though where people brag about how they can handle their liquor or that it's too complicated to figure out their BAC manually. I have seen way too many people at an event do some quick napkin math or in their head to figure out if they think their BAC is too much. Just do not drive at that point, ever. It is really that simple.
 
Noodleface

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I kind of want to get drunk and be handed a shotgun and see what happens. It should be ok as long as I don't understand right and wrong.
 
Tuco

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lol @ driving drunk as intent to kill. Words have specific meanings gentlemen.

1in?tent noun \in-'tent\
: the thing that you plan to do or achieve : an aim or purpose


"Joe drove home drunk. This showed that his plan was to kill innocent pedestrians."
 
Xequecal

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ZyyzYzzy_sl said:
I don't even get Xeq's argument. The kid was well above the 0.08. There is a big difference being blackout drunk and right at the threshold. Even the 0.08 is sort of assinine given such variability amongst people, and if anything should be lower, or google can hurry the hell up with KITT
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Phoenix equated drunk driving with murderous intent and said you should get executed for it. Not just this kid's crime specifically, all drunk driving.
 
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Dabamf_sl

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I got a DUI as an underage kid once for blowing a .034 thanks to different legal limits for underage people

I basically looked at alcohol and it cost me thousands of dollars

As for intent, let's not be ridiculous and change the meaning of words. Its clearly not intent because intent requires...intent.

I also do kind of agree with xeq. Driving at .2+ deserves crucifiction; however, a .09 DUI is not nearly in the same ballpark and isn't even overly dangerous. Yet they are sort of all lumped together, and a .09 DUI can ruin your life almost as much as a .2 can. The indignation people have (not here--people in general) about a just-barely DUI is silly especially when lots of these people are off texting and driving all the time.
 
Khane

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Where do we draw the line with what alcohol does and doesn't do to our wits? Why can women claim rape when they are drunk even if they quite literally consented and intended to have sex? Why is it "intent to kill" if you have higher than .08 BAC and drive a vehicle? Don't be ridiculous.

The kid made a choice with wanton disregard for the consequences and now that ideal is being enforced by the legal system. He should definitely be locked up over this and for a long time. But I seriously doubt he intended to kill anyone or wreck his truck. All he intended to do was drive somewhere.
 
Hachima

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The intent of getting extremely drunk is to put yourself in a state where you will disregard preserving human life, your own and others. This is intent to kill.
 
Big Phoenix

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Khane_sl said:
Where do we draw the line with what alcohol does and doesn't do to our wits? Why can women claim rape when they are drunk even if they quite literally consented and intended to have sex? Why is it "intent to kill" if you have higher than .08 BAC and drive a vehicle? Don't be ridiculous.

The kid made a choice with wanton disregard for the consequences and now that ideal is being enforced by the legal system. He should definitely be locked up over this and for a long time. But I seriously doubt he intended to kill anyone or wreck his truck. All he intended to do was drive somewhere.
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Because we have a "legal" system based on archiac and idiotically defined set of rules and procedures. Law isnt logical. If law was logical and rational women wouldnt be able to claim rape while drunk against a guy who is also drunk and win every time.
Phoenix equated drunk driving with murderous intent and said you should get executed for it. Not just this kid's crime specifically, all drunk driving.
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DUI laws being abused and misused as a form of revenue generation is a problem, but that isnt the case. Kid was hammered drunk and high on drugs.

And my whole he deserves to be executed is a personal belief. Its pretty obvious kid would never be charged with 1st degree murder.
 
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The Foler_sl

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The kid didn't know any better. Look at his parents track record, they a literally terrible people. I don't know if I would call it affluenza but he definitely suffers from the lavish and reckless lifestyle that his parents embellished him in.
 
Noodleface

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Dabamf_sl said:
I got a DUI as an underage kid once for blowing a .034 thanks to different legal limits for underage people

I basically looked at alcohol and it cost me thousands of dollars

As for intent, let's not be ridiculous and change the meaning of words. Its clearly not intent because intent requires...intent.

I also do kind of agree with xeq. Driving at .2+ deserves crucifiction; however, a .09 DUI is not nearly in the same ballpark and isn't even overly dangerous. Yet they are sort of all lumped together, and a .09 DUI can ruin your life almost as much as a .2 can. The indignation people have (not here--people in general) about a just-barely DUI is silly especially when lots of these people are off texting and driving all the time.
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I think there are legal limits for a reason, to avoid any doubt in such a situation. You can disagree and say that a 0.09 is not the same as a 0.2 and you're right it's not; however, we have no idea if the 0.09 would end up driving down the street and killing a family minding their own business. It's foolish to drive when you drink. I don't think there was intent here, but he certainly should go to jail. The verdict just reaffirms in his mind that he can do whatever he wants.

We had something similar happen right across the street from my house. Bunch of kids got high on weed and got drunk and were speeding down the street. There was a very large boulder on the side of the road and they hit it, spiraling into the air and landing upside down. Everyone but the driver died, and he went to jail. He made a terrible decision to do what he did and he paid for the consequences.
 
Khane

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Hachima_sl said:
The intent of getting extremely drunk is to put yourself in a state where you will disregard preserving human life, your own and others. This is intent to kill.
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No, it's intent to get drunk. Once you get there you tend to not think clearly. That doesn't mean that every time I get drunk I am intending to kill someone. By your logic even if I get drunk in my house and never step foot through my door I am still intending to kill someone, so I better be alone otherwise I should go to jail.

Lots of soap boxes in this thread.
 
Khane

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The Foler_sl said:
The kid didn't know any better. Look at his parents track record, they a literally terrible people. I don't know if I would call it affluenza but he definitely suffers from the lavish and reckless lifestyle that his parents embellished him in.
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That doesn't excuse him. That can happen to any kid regardless of social and financial status, which I've already explained. If his parents aren't teaching him, and society isn't teaching him then who the fuck is and when/how will he ever understand?
 
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The Ancient_sl

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Dabamf_sl said:
I also do kind of agree with xeq. Driving at .2+ deserves crucifiction; however, a .09 DUI is not nearly in the same ballpark and isn't even overly dangerous.
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You are wrong about .09. Sure it isn't in the same ballpark but it's dangerous enough that you shouldn't be behind the wheel. If you need to drive somewhere, don't drink that much. If you really want to drink that much, don't drive. It's not complicated. One minor mistake is all it takes to ruin multiple people lives, just because you are only sort of drunk or "buzzing" doesn't mean that's a risk to take.

Just because texting and driving is just as bad doesn't make driving above the legal limit okay.
 
Big Phoenix

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Khane_sl said:
No, it's intent to get drunk. Once you get there you tend to not think clearly. That doesn't mean that every time I get drunk I am intending to kill someone. By your logic even if I get drunk in my house and never step foot through my door I am still intending to kill someone, so I better be alone otherwise I should go to jail.

Lots of soap boxes in this thread.
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Youre equating just getting drunk to murderous intent. Pretty sure its easy to see were talking about getting drunkanddriving.
 
ZyyzYzzy

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There was no intent to kill. However he is guilty of reckless endangerment and manslaughter.

I don't get the affluenza or even the simpler unable to distinguish right and wrong defense. It is completely irrevelvant, just how using neurological disorders as defense is flawed. You and are your brain, nothing more, nothing else.
 
Khane

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The Ancient_sl said:
You are wrong about .09. Sure it isn't in the same ballpark but it's dangerous enough that you shouldn't be behind the wheel. If you need to drive somewhere, don't drink that much. If you really want to drink that much, don't drive. It's not complicated. One minor mistake is all it takes to ruin multiple people lives, just because you are only sort of drunk or "buzzing" doesn't mean that's a risk to take.

Just because texting and driving is just as bad doesn't make driving above the legal limit okay.
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.08 is 1 or 2 beers for most people. It isn't dangerous to drive in that state. The limit is purposefully set to a very low BAC to avoid grey areas in people's ability to still make a coherent decision about public safety.
 
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The Ancient_sl

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Khane_sl said:
.08 is 1 or 2 beers for most people. It isn't dangerous to drive in that state. The limit is purposefully set to a very low BAC to avoid grey areas in people's ability to still make a coherent decision about public safety.
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No, it's not 1 or 2 beers for most people, it's 2+ beers in a hour and immediately getting behind the wheel of a car. It's uncommon that someone just pounds 3 beers and then drives somewhere, why would they, it's silly behavior. Usually the .08 requires some sustained drinking over a period of time and yes people should not be driving at that point.

Not to mention that if it's .08 when you blew, it was higher than that when you got behind the wheel.
 
A

a_skeleton_03

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The Ancient_sl said:
No, it's not 1 or 2 beers for most people, it's 2+ beers in a hour and immediately getting behind the wheel of a car. It's uncommon that someone just pounds 3 beers and then drives somewhere, why would they, it's silly behavior. Usually the .08 requires some sustained drinking over a period of time and yes people should not be driving at that point.

Not to mention that if it's .08 when you blew, it was higher than that when you got behind the wheel.
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Don't drop that soapbox holier than thou attitude full of common sense and science up in here.

Khane is trying to make himself feel better about every night that he gets behind the wheel drunk....
 
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