Affluenza

Medain_sl · Jan 1, 2014

Um didnt the kid tell his buddies as he was running away not to worry, he would get them out of it? Which implies he clearly understood the moral implication of what he did, that he knew he fucked up?

Sixteen is plenty old enough to know right from wrong, anyone who says otherwise is peddling some betamale weepyvagina faggotry.

ZyyzYzzy · Jan 1, 2014

A poor kid raised by parents telling him the only way to get by is by stealing would get a harsher sentence than this rich white kid for a far less severe crime.

Araysar · Jan 1, 2014

foler is in the shaw but he wanted me to tell you guys that money has no bearing on how a child is raised

Haast · Jan 1, 2014

Khane_sl said:
I find it hard to believe that you can take a stance like this. Going to a "rich person's treatment center" will make him a better person than going to jail? Mind telling us how you came to this conclusion? You think sticking him in some institution that costs 450 fucking thousand dollars a year filled with like-minded people who have the same access to money he does is going to be better for him than sticking him with wild animals who will quite literally scare him straight? You might as well just leave him in the care of his parents.

I don't understand how there are people out in the world who agree with this verdict. It baffles the shit out of me. This is quite literally your argument:

"Well the kid didn't know any better because his parents never taught him. So society and the goddamn legal system aren't going to teach him either. But somehow he's magically going to become a better person for never having learned his lesson"

Jesus Christ. So rustled.

I think you may be misunderstanding Dabamf here.

He's saying that much like absentee parents of poor black kids produce shitty kids, the same parenting style by these rich white parents produces an equally shitty kid. Debatably worse, because the rich white kid has money to fund his fucked up actions.

And while we say jail is supposed to rehabilitate criminals, little effort actually goes into rehabilitation. It's really a holding pen full of dregs that breeds more crime. It would be best if we actually tried rehabilitating criminals. But despite spending a shitload of money to keep an inordinate amount of people in jail, very little of that staggering sum goes to fixing them.

He finishes by saying it isn't fair to have a double standard for poor vs rich. Either rehabilitation is worthwhile and we should be doing it regardless, or throw the rich little prick in jail with the rest of humanity's garbage.

I don't see a problem with his post.

Voyce · Jan 1, 2014

It's not the judge's job to fix people, or save a kid's child hood, its literally not their job, that's not what they do.

They're supposed to determine guilt in cases where a jury isn't present, and hand out sentencing to a guilty party that serves the best interest of the public.

Supporting the defense that he is not culpable of his crime because his family is rich, and letting him go free to live with his parents and continue to have a child hood as if what he did was "all just a bad dream" and didn't happen, or more accurately the actual precedent that this judge set: being rich means you don't have to value human worth does not serve the public's interest.

The judge needs to be disbarred and sent to prison.

Tuco · Jan 2, 2014

Voyce_sl said:
They're supposed to determine guilt in cases where a jury isn't present, and hand out sentencing to a guilty party that serves the best interest of the public.

I haven't followed this closely but just thinking about this, jail isn't a very effective rehabilitation system. It's supposed to be but it's not. If a family is wealthy enough to able to spend the money on a real rehabilitation system does it not serve the public to allow them to spend their money on that? You avoid what would likely be turning a kid into a career criminal and avoid causing the kid to be a drain on the system.

I think the kid should have gone to jail and I don't think justice was done, but it goes back to the idea of whether prison time is meant to be a punishment first or a rehabilitation first. Any kind of incarceration or probation will be a punishment, especially to a rich brat, but is not better for society if the kid is rehabilitated?

fanaskin · Jan 2, 2014

Voyce_sl said:
It's not the judge's job to fix people, or save a kid's child hood, its literally not their job, that's not what they do.

You couldn't be more wrong if you tried

It was juvi court not regular court, Those judges are literally are told to consider those things and it literally is their job to consider that.

Pasteton · Jan 2, 2014

Actually been a few high profile cases of really bad accidents here from fall asleep at wheel and texting situations, including fatalities. One thing to note is these are quite often concomitant with the drunk driving, so yea, the drunk driving gets blamed. People don't often realize this.

Get absolutely shit faced drunk like this kid? Then yea, that alone will be enough to make you incapable of driving safely.

Heavily Buzzed but still got enough motor skills to drive? Maybe so, but that alcohol impair your judgment where you start to pick up your phone and text or fbook stupidly? Or get distracted in some other way? Probably happens, but goes down as a dd accident.

Anyways we are just some sensational incident from the fines for texting/fatigue getting changed as well. Just waiting for that trucker who's instagramming on the highway and accidently rams a school bus or something, and you'll see the smartphone rules tighten up as well.

Khane · Jan 2, 2014

Tuco_sl said:
I haven't followed this closely but just thinking about this, jail isn't a very effective rehabilitation system. It's supposed to be but it's not. If a family is wealthy enough to able to spend the money on a real rehabilitation system does it not serve the public to allow them to spend their money on that? You avoid what would likely be turning a kid into a career criminal and avoid causing the kid to be a drain on the system.

I think the kid should have gone to jail and I don't think justice was done, but it goes back to the idea of whether prison time is meant to be a punishment first or a rehabilitation first. Any kind of incarceration or probation will be a punishment, especially to a rich brat, but is not better for society if the kid is rehabilitated?

Jail does indeed rehabilitate people. Not everyone, but the people it doesn't rehabilitate are usually too far gone. How could you say it doesn't work for anyone? It's a very sobering experience and for people like this kid it would probably scare the shit out of him (assuming he isn't isolated and treated differently because of his affluence). Some of those rehab centers are probably just as bad or worse than jail in some regards I suppose but this kid violated a law severely and 4 people ended up dead so if we are setting some sort of precedent with this case that's a little scary. I don't really know exactly what the kid was like. Who knows, maybe he wasn't a bad kid and his parents and lawyer decided to find some crackpot psychologist to drum up this defense. I just think it's a made up condition and bullshit diagnosis. You can kind of say "well I didn't know any better" in any number of scenarios. Especially since this kid had to know better because they make you sit through a class during driver's ed about this exact topic. There's no way this kid didn't know what can and does happen when you get behind the wheel of a vehicle drunk. So if he didn't understand the consequences every 16 year old in America should get one "free pass" (no jailtime).

EDIT: I know you were saying you believe he deserves jail time too but I just don't think it's a good idea to try to "help" people by not putting them in jail for committing crimes and instead sending them to a rehab center unless they have a real, legitimate mental condition that warrants it

wormie · Jan 2, 2014

fanaskin_sl said:
You couldn't be more wrong if you tried

It was juvi court not regular court, Those judges are literally are told to consider those things and it literally is their job to consider that.

Holy shit. Mark this day and this post boys and girls. Fanaskin got something right.

Voyce · Jan 2, 2014

fanaskin_sl said:
You couldn't be more wrong if you tried

It was juvi court not regular court, Those judges are literally are told to consider those things and it literally is their job to consider that.

Then the system was wrong for sending this case to a family court, family courts deal in domestic isssues, this issue concerned the public not a family, four people were killed, they were not part of this person's family.

The judge should be disbarred for choosing to hear a case that falls outside of her venue.

fanaskin · Jan 2, 2014

uh no, you can kill/rob/maim/ people and still be tried in juvi court, it's age restricted, it's not purely "family court", if they feel it's warranted the prosecution asks that the defendant be tried as an adult.

here's another example

Adult v. juvenile justice: Judge to decide legal path of teenage murder defendant - Times-Standard Online

There are two pervasive points of view on the subject.

The first says that when someone commits an adult crime, like murder, they should face adult consequences to ensure they are punished severely and society is protected. The other says that children's brains are still forming and that they are incapable of making adult decisions -- which is why society doesn't allow them to vote or serve in the military. Consequently, they shouldn't spend the rest of their lives paying for an offense committed in childhood, but instead should receive the services and guidance they need to be rehabilitated and, ultimately, contribute to society.

~

David Levine, a law professor at University of California Hastings School of Law, said the whole aim of the juvenile justice system is rehabilitation and the point of a fitness hearing is to determine if that's possible for a defendant.

"The idea is that whatever crimes these people have committed, the hope is they can be rehabilitated, returned to their communities and returned to their families," he said.

Prior to the 19th century, Levine said, common held that anyone below the age of 7 was an infant and everyone else was an adult. Sometime in the 19th century, Levine said, popular opinion changed as people realized children aren't fully formed adults and that it's appropriate to treat them differently.

Where things get a bit complicated, according to Levine, is when you have a child defendant who stands accused of a horribly violent offense. States deal with the situation differently, but all have some mechanism that allows juveniles to be tried as adults for certain offenses and it is estimated that about a quarter of a million are prosecuted as adults each year, according to the Juvenile Law Center.

the arguement is whether it was warranted to try him as an adult not whether the judge should be disbarred for following a system that's been in place for centuries.

Voyce · Jan 2, 2014

Then the judge should be disbarred and sent to prison for not acting in the interest of the public.

Chesire_sl · Jan 2, 2014

Voyce_sl said:
Then the judge should be disbarred and sent to prison for not acting in the interest of the public.

Agree however the judge is going too retire soon and waltz off into the sunset , probably with a suitcase full of bills or even a USB stick full of crypto currency.

I have a passing interest in this , a high school chum failed to make a turn while drunk .Killed the passenger and demolished a house .
He got out when he was 41 , after doing 24 years in the state prison.

Voyce · Jan 2, 2014

Chesire_sl said:
Agree however the judge is going too retire soon and waltz off into the sunset , probably with a suitcase full of bills or even a USB stick full of crypto currency.

I have a passing interest in this , a high school chum failed to make a turn while drunk .Killed the passenger and demolished a house .
He got out when he was 41 , after doing 24 years in the state prison.

that would have made him 17 at the time correct? I take it his net worth wasn't very high.

Big Phoenix · Jan 2, 2014

Voyce_sl said:
Then the judge should be disbarred and sent to prison for not acting in the interest of the public.

Judges are special people in the same category as Congressman/Senators.

Voyce · Jan 2, 2014

Big Phoenix_sl said:
Judges are special people in the same category as Congressman/Senators.

Ah so you're telling me that judges can also be considered "affluent". I think I get it, the judge also suffers from affluenza too.
I guess that makes everything ok.

Big Phoenix · Jan 2, 2014

Voyce_sl said:
Ah so you're telling me that judges can also be considered "affluent". I think I get it, the judge also suffers from affluenza too.
I guess that makes everything ok.

People treat you the way you let them. Society lets it happen so it happens over and over.

Kedwyn · Jan 2, 2014

Killing several people due to your own negligent act, being able to say "my bad, my Dad is rich I don't care or know any better" and going to work out and play tennis for a year while you get as clean as Lindsey Lohan isn't justice in any sense of the word.

Prison is hardly perfect but its better than having that ass hole walking around essentially free after getting a year in a celebrity retreat. Some acts deserve punishment regardless of possibility of rehabilitation. Driving drunk and killing several people fit that bill perfectly.

I wonder if the Judge's second cousin got a nice new do nothing job.

Voyce · Jan 2, 2014

Affluenza

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