Shonuff
Mr. Poopybutthole
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DC Universe Animated Movies
- Thread starter Araysar
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radditsu
Silver Knight of the Realm
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You know what i mean. Damian, of all people in comics, needs a happy ending. The little guy had it the worst. If they were going to get rid of him, I would hope it would be in a way to be happy and at peace with life. A great bookend to the batman mythos is to have the son of Batman be at peace with the world, thus preventing Batman 666 from going down.
But we are talking about the DC that had Red Arrow's kid die, have him lose an arm, get strung out on drugs and beat people up with a dead cat. So happy endings just don't happen anymore!
Caliane
Avatar of War Slayer
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yeah. Batman and Robin. and, Batman, Inc, not being the finale of the Bruce wayne story, and beginning of Dick Bats, Damien Robin, was a GIANT, GIANT mistake. Like, totally broke comics, ala death of superman mistake. Like, Landis's "supermans return broke death", The return of Batman, broke any chance of happy endings, or storys ending at all. Its a cancer killing american comics. everything is in limbo, going on and on and on. Character development is wiped out, and rebooted, over and over. a team finishes up a story. and instead of a new team, with a new story. they take the old timeline, and totally undo everything, taking it in new directions, retconning, and reimagining.. there is no permanence, "power levels" flux wildly, etc..
The Torch had been passed. Dick was Batman, Damian was Robin, and the brother relationship was perfect. Bruce retiring to be a FATHER, like his father before him, would have been the perfect ending.
Writers that fuck that up, are fucking pieces of shit, killing comics, and the character.. For Bruce, a guy with such issues with dead parents, being effectively a deadbeat dad to Jason, Tim, and Damien is complete horseshit. Same to Cass and steph.... nevermind fucking and having a kid with Barbara... (don't cockblock your son.)
Shonuff
Mr. Poopybutthole
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Bad Blood really wasn't that good. In Fact it's been awhile since I've seen anything really good from them.
They need to do less new 52 stuff.
They need to do less new 52 stuff.
Batman as Patriarch was the clear editorial intention (for years) up to a majority of fans killing it in favor of more grim and gritty bullshit. Forget where I heard it but there was an interview with some DC insider a while back that made it clear there were long range plans for a shift in the status quo that had to change due to pushback from fans.
Of course that could be a result of choosing to market mainstream comics to adults who prefer only their particular versions of their heroes, but clearly some of the blame rests with fandom.
Of course that could be a result of choosing to market mainstream comics to adults who prefer only their particular versions of their heroes, but clearly some of the blame rests with fandom.
Caliane
Avatar of War Slayer
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yeah, not direct input from fans. but market forces you can argue. "every comic is someones first comic" This is why we have constant reboots, retellings of origin over and over and over and over.
If it was marking of mainstream comics to adults, GN formats would make more sense. you could have a mini featuring Bruce, run alongside a mini featuring Dick. The Dark Knight a prime example of this.
If it was marking of mainstream comics to adults, GN formats would make more sense. you could have a mini featuring Bruce, run alongside a mini featuring Dick. The Dark Knight a prime example of this.
Arbitrary
Tranny Chaser
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Where DC goes wrong and continues to go wrong is that it doesn't take them all that long after a reboot to make their product inaccessible again. They constantly have to reset to the status quo so anyone can have any idea what the fuck is going on. Let's just look at Batman for a second.
I've said this before but the Batman and Robin run after Final Crisis (which is a mountain of incomprehensible Morrison meta-wank) is maybe my favorite run ever. It's got Dick Grayson taking on the mantle of Batman and Damien as Robin. Dick is trying to cope with everyone (and I mean everyone) seeing him as a pretender and a young and headstrong Damien giving him shit all the time and being near uncontrollable. Over time they learn and grow as a team, start to build their own Rogue's Gallery, and goddamn if it isn't just great story-telling.
Then you get The Return of Bruce Wayne which isn't great, the conclusion is delayed in its release so Bruce is back doing stuff before the story of him getting back is completed, that story is also super complicated (Darkseid used the Omega Sanction on Bruce Wayne so he's trapped in a loop of lifetimes being chased by the Hyper Adapter, a meta-fiction entity thing and oh nos, Doctor Hurt is possessed by the Hyper Adapter, Doctor Hurt already being a complicated Grant Morrison meta-villain as it is from Batman RIP and other shit), Bruce starts Batman Incorporate which isn't all that great, we get Flashpoint which is cool and then that reboot basically restarts almost every character and wipes an unspecified amount of history from each character so any member of the Bat-Family is probably different now than they were. Did you like The Spoiler and then Stephanie as Batgirl? Good fucking luck with that. Did you like Oracle? Complete character overhaul, now Babs is Batgirl again with no explanation as to why. Harley Quinn? Total revamp.
It's just all so fucking complicated and it'salwaysbeen fucking complicated. It's almost fun trying to explain to someone the history of a character like Jason Todd. See, he took over as Robin after Dick Grayson left to become Nightwing and then he wasn't super popular so there was a 1-900 line where people could call in to vote to have him killed so he got killed off that way but later after Crisis on Infinite Earths Superboy Prime punched reality so hard he came back to life oh wait let me stop and explain that Crisis to you and the aftermath and the fallout with The New 52 or whatever the fuck that was hey wait where are you going come back.
The way to go is to just read the good stories in isolation and let the nerds do the sifting to find them. Actually trying to keep up week to week month to month year to year is going to piss you off.
I've said this before but the Batman and Robin run after Final Crisis (which is a mountain of incomprehensible Morrison meta-wank) is maybe my favorite run ever. It's got Dick Grayson taking on the mantle of Batman and Damien as Robin. Dick is trying to cope with everyone (and I mean everyone) seeing him as a pretender and a young and headstrong Damien giving him shit all the time and being near uncontrollable. Over time they learn and grow as a team, start to build their own Rogue's Gallery, and goddamn if it isn't just great story-telling.
Then you get The Return of Bruce Wayne which isn't great, the conclusion is delayed in its release so Bruce is back doing stuff before the story of him getting back is completed, that story is also super complicated (Darkseid used the Omega Sanction on Bruce Wayne so he's trapped in a loop of lifetimes being chased by the Hyper Adapter, a meta-fiction entity thing and oh nos, Doctor Hurt is possessed by the Hyper Adapter, Doctor Hurt already being a complicated Grant Morrison meta-villain as it is from Batman RIP and other shit), Bruce starts Batman Incorporate which isn't all that great, we get Flashpoint which is cool and then that reboot basically restarts almost every character and wipes an unspecified amount of history from each character so any member of the Bat-Family is probably different now than they were. Did you like The Spoiler and then Stephanie as Batgirl? Good fucking luck with that. Did you like Oracle? Complete character overhaul, now Babs is Batgirl again with no explanation as to why. Harley Quinn? Total revamp.
It's just all so fucking complicated and it'salwaysbeen fucking complicated. It's almost fun trying to explain to someone the history of a character like Jason Todd. See, he took over as Robin after Dick Grayson left to become Nightwing and then he wasn't super popular so there was a 1-900 line where people could call in to vote to have him killed so he got killed off that way but later after Crisis on Infinite Earths Superboy Prime punched reality so hard he came back to life oh wait let me stop and explain that Crisis to you and the aftermath and the fallout with The New 52 or whatever the fuck that was hey wait where are you going come back.
The way to go is to just read the good stories in isolation and let the nerds do the sifting to find them. Actually trying to keep up week to week month to month year to year is going to piss you off.
radditsu
Silver Knight of the Realm
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Yep, bleeding heart liberal.
Or I am a guy with two boys who wants to see a young man to grow up to be happy.
Fuck me right?
radditsu
Silver Knight of the Realm
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The entirety of the universe being built and rebooted continuously by the "trinity" , Martha Wayne's pearls being the representation of the multiverse is just FANTASTIC. The end of time issue of "Return of Bruce Wayne" was just about the greatest meta wankery awesomeness I have ever read. Then Tim (the best Robin) Drake basically hugging Bruce Wayne back into reality sealed the deal.
Then they had zombies. Then they struck the flash with lighting twice. The green lanterns had a dust up or two.
As for an (ever growing) list of comic books ranked from good to bad:
Every Story Ever | War Rocket Ajax
The only reason they reboot a lot is to infuse capital.
Some indie artist wrote an article recently, and he said number 1 issues of anything do ridiculous sales. Yeah Captain Obvious right? But it's shed some light on why they don't do yearly seasons, and instead elect to reboot everything to get new readers for a very short time.
Marvel/DC comics for the most part are a mess there really is no way to fix them.
Some indie artist wrote an article recently, and he said number 1 issues of anything do ridiculous sales. Yeah Captain Obvious right? But it's shed some light on why they don't do yearly seasons, and instead elect to reboot everything to get new readers for a very short time.
Marvel/DC comics for the most part are a mess there really is no way to fix them.
I think its right between GO and JLA. It's not 100% anime influenced like GO, and not 100% Bruce Timm's designs.
It's interesting to see all the characters that are in the background on that poster.
Caliane
Avatar of War Slayer
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you know...
there was a thread on /co/ the other day about the dearth of non-sitcom American animation.
we make fun of anime being largely trash here, sure. But, at least they do get Ergo proxy, Cowboy bebop, Madoka, etc...
How does this relate to comics? Comics crashed due to the CCA. There used to be pirate comics, romance comics, horror comics, westerns, etc. etc. The CCA killed everything that was not superhero. With general fantasty and sci-fi "barely" surviving, largely in the form of Licensed IP. aka, starwars, DnD, etc.
Now, back to DC Universe Animated...
It occurs to me, DC's focus on animated IP being exclusively Superhero focus is a GIANT mistake. They are one of a very few houses in the US in a place to actually fill the gaps with action and adventure IP.
No one is forcing them to make exclusively superhero related action animation. They are doing it to themselves here.
people wonder what the appeal of SU, Adventure time, even My little pony... Because they aren't sitcoms, certainly might be the answer, if nothing else..
there was a thread on /co/ the other day about the dearth of non-sitcom American animation.
we make fun of anime being largely trash here, sure. But, at least they do get Ergo proxy, Cowboy bebop, Madoka, etc...
How does this relate to comics? Comics crashed due to the CCA. There used to be pirate comics, romance comics, horror comics, westerns, etc. etc. The CCA killed everything that was not superhero. With general fantasty and sci-fi "barely" surviving, largely in the form of Licensed IP. aka, starwars, DnD, etc.
Now, back to DC Universe Animated...
It occurs to me, DC's focus on animated IP being exclusively Superhero focus is a GIANT mistake. They are one of a very few houses in the US in a place to actually fill the gaps with action and adventure IP.
No one is forcing them to make exclusively superhero related action animation. They are doing it to themselves here.
people wonder what the appeal of SU, Adventure time, even My little pony... Because they aren't sitcoms, certainly might be the answer, if nothing else..
Shonuff
Mr. Poopybutthole
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j00t
Silver Baronet of the Realm
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That poster is everything that is wrong with DC mentality. It looks cool, but all we want you to care about is the big three. There's also some other characters that we have, but you have to look really hard for them and most of the time, the big three are in the way.
Edit: also, batman smiles now.
Edit: also, batman smiles now.
radditsu
Silver Knight of the Realm
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Blackyce
Silver Knight of the Realm
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Agreed, it was meh. Definitely something you'll want to torrent and not actually purchase.
I'm hoping the new Justice League vs. Teen Titans will be good but I have my doubts.
Still wishing they'd go back and revive their plans to do the Teen Titans "Judas Contract". That is one of the best DC stories in my opinion. Done right at the time that The New Teen Titans and Uncanny X-Men were at the height of their popularity when we were getting incredible stories from both teams.
I understand they might want to make these movies kid friendly but come on, these stories are coming from Comic Books, something that when originally written, were for both kids and adults. Why can't we get another great animated movie like Batman: Under the Red Hood?