Dwarf Fortress

BrotherWu · Dec 15, 2022

This game seems like it is one of those games that is more fun to talk/think about playing than actually playing (Eve?). It sounds good on paper but it's so ugly, complicated and unforgiving that I just don't get it. I tried the original a couple of times but it just seemed so bad.

What am I missing?

I think a 3D version of this game with a good interface could be awesome. Like a Dwarven remix of Valheim and Sims.

Erronius · Dec 15, 2022

So far about half of my issues are stockpile and crafting station specific.

Like...no idea why I could never get a still to pull fruits/vegetables out of a stockpile for that stuff, and refused to work until...I just deleted the direct source setting. Then it just worked. And I spent time chasing my tail on a lot of different stuff because the error messages made it sound like I was just missing empty containers to craft into.

The only thing I could figure out was the small, easy to miss detail that you couldn't pull from a barrel in a stockpile while there was someone actively filling said barrel, but then I made a fuckton of spare barrels and had multiple full barrels in the stockpile and it still wouldn't pull from it.

I made so many fucking barrels because some random dudes in random online discussions were saying that's all that it was (it wasn't)

Another thing that kind of bugs me about it, is that a lot of people want to "WIN" games, in that they want to level and gear their people up to the point that they almost can't lose. And I'm honestly not sure that's even possible with DF. Even some videos I've seen with 'brute squads' of skilled up and capable dorfs, it usually just ends up with something tearing those poor fuckers into tiny little pieces.

A friend of mine was streaming something else last night, and I was trying to explain DF to him. Eventually I just gave up and told him is was a essentially a "game you play until you lose in some fashion...it's a sort of losing simulator" and his response was essentially "yeah, fuck that. That doesn't sound fun at all. Hard pass"

Furry · Dec 15, 2022

Kaines said:
I haven't played it either but I have a similar take on the game. However it seems to me like The Sims only you are playing every family in the whole damn town. Seems a bit much.

Never played the sims, so its hard for me to compare to it. But basically, you don't really directly control your dwarves much of ever, and even if you did they might just straight up ignore you at times. The game is more akin to a city builder. You decide where they'll dig, what workshops they'll build and where, where a dwarf's bed is and what not. But generally, I'm pretty hands off with the dwarves unless I have a legendary crafter, where I'll set them to work exclusively in their one trade skill.

As an example. You can pretty much automate all production in your fort with lots of work orders, so all of the day to day stuff that helps, like cows getting milked just does itself. On top of that, the general autonomy dwarves have leads to all sorts of strangeness, which is what the game is. Ultimately, it's a game where you have to mind not losing, cause fortresses with a lot of people tend to spiral out of control.

Furry · Dec 15, 2022

Erronius said:
The only thing I could figure out was the small, easy to miss detail that you couldn't pull from a barrel in a stockpile while there was someone actively filling said barrel, but then I made a fuckton of spare barrels and had multiple full barrels in the stockpile and it still wouldn't pull from it.

I set a lot of work orders to "Produce x of this" and have them repeat every month. That solves a lot of tedium problems, and it's not like you can end up with too much booze.

Erronius · Dec 15, 2022

Well, for that specific issue I tried that, and all I got were periodic notifications on the left that DwarfX cancelled work because [reasons]

... · Dec 15, 2022

I always explain that DF is a bit like minecraft in that it's basically a playground for you to do what you want. you can get to the point where you basically can't loose*, but that involves knowing how not to loose. in the old version i'd had forts with hundreds of dwarfs, but you have to be very careful with failsafes. you have to be ready to raise draw bridges and strand ancient monsters in the deep and just not engage with them. you have to be mindful to know you won't breach the deepest core.

much like a minecraft or rimworld you can perfect yourself into having a run that is no longer fun to play and you just stop and try some other shit.

TJT · Dec 15, 2022

Erronius said:
So far about half of my issues are stockpile and crafting station specific.

Like...no idea why I could never get a still to pull fruits/vegetables out of a stockpile for that stuff, and refused to work until...I just deleted the direct source setting. Then it just worked. And I spent time chasing my tail on a lot of different stuff because the error messages made it sound like I was just missing empty containers to craft into.

The only thing I could figure out was the small, easy to miss detail that you couldn't pull from a barrel in a stockpile while there was someone actively filling said barrel, but then I made a fuckton of spare barrels and had multiple full barrels in the stockpile and it still wouldn't pull from it.

I made so many fucking barrels because some random dudes in random online discussions were saying that's all that it was (it wasn't)

Another thing that kind of bugs me about it, is that a lot of people want to "WIN" games, in that they want to level and gear their people up to the point that they almost can't lose. And I'm honestly not sure that's even possible with DF. Even some videos I've seen with 'brute squads' of skilled up and capable dorfs, it usually just ends up with something tearing those poor fuckers into tiny little pieces.

A friend of mine was streaming something else last night, and I was trying to explain DF to him. Eventually I just gave up and told him is was a essentially a "game you play until you lose in some fashion...it's a sort of losing simulator" and his response was essentially "yeah, fuck that. That doesn't sound fun at all. Hard pass"

Not sure what you were doing wrong? When you make the still specify what you want to make into brew. Most fruits or mushrooms can become alcohol.

My good times. I made a tavern and played a few hours but I completely forgot to make wooden cups and put them in the tavern space. Dwarfs got rowdy and pissed that they had to drink directly out of the barrel and got into a barfight that injured several of them. I had a good chuckle out of that just due to the absurdity.

I've always thought the nobility like the bookeeper is straight brilliant troll ass design. Oh you want the interface to give you mostly accurate information about your food/beer stores? Better assign a dude to take care of that for you.

... · Dec 15, 2022

i always thought the nobles were great design man. you can't tame weird monsters till you get a dungeon master, but once you get a dungeon master he starts making weird directives and wants a fancy room. add some aggrivation to get some benefit.

man i haven't actively played in years. did they ever make the dwarven economy work? with the coins?

I'm midway through a slow ass tribal game of rimworld. when i finish it (or maybe do one more mechanator run), i'll dive deep into DF. i hope i like the new interface. i'm one of those weirdos that had matrix eyes and could just 'see' the ascii art just fine, but everyone thought i was mad.

TJT · Dec 15, 2022

... said:
I always explain that DF is a bit like minecraft in that it's basically a playground for you to do what you want. you can get to the point where you basically can't loose*, but that involves knowing how not to loose. in the old version i'd had forts with hundreds of dwarfs, but you have to be very careful with failsafes. you have to be ready to raise draw bridges and strand ancient monsters in the deep and just not engage with them. you have to be mindful to know you won't breach the deepest core.

much like a minecraft or rimworld you can perfect yourself into having a run that is no longer fun to play and you just stop and try some other shit.

Yeah I don't get why people play like this.

Managing chaos IS the game.

... · Dec 15, 2022

yea I tend to try to do something interesting with the playstyle and avoid the instant death items. so i will never breach super deep (though i do tease a lil mithril out), and i'll make a very redundant set of defenses, or maybe play with artillary. but i don't hermetically seal my base off from the world and live only-in-the-rock. I kind of like the notion of abandoning part of the fort (like moria) because a balrag is running around. it does have a good feel to it. I earnestly hope they fixed the legendary monsters becoming invincible if you tear off too many parts, it'd be nice if, with a full squad of mithril plate mega hammerers you can indeed take them down. though i presume the ones that shit gas and pee lava everywhere won't be taken so easily. time will tell!

Erronius · Dec 15, 2022

TJT said:
Not sure what you were doing wrong? When you make the still specify what you want to make into brew. Most fruits or mushrooms can become alcohol.

I'm not sure either, LOL. I just opened that game back up and I couldn't reproduce it.

Though on second thought, I'm wondering if maybe if I set it up to pull fruits/vegetables from a stockpile, if it then wanted to also pull an empty barrel from the same stockpile, and then it doesn't matter if I have 500 barrels around my fortress or not.

But I remember having empty barrels in the original stockpile so I don't know. All I know is I spent literal hours fucking with it, getting frustrated and going to play Valheim or TW, then coming back, rinse and repeat...

And to be completely honest, the only reason I decided to get so fucking anal about stockpiles and orders and everything else in this run, is that in previous runs I couldn't distill anything because my seeds kept disappearing. Which I assumed was because I wasn't paying attention to cooking and that shit doesn't return the seeds....

It's working now so I'm just like "don't fucking touch it"

TJT · Dec 15, 2022

You most likely mismanaged food or some cheeky dwarf ate your seeds and if you read his log and said that he just loves eating seeds and he was bored.

Kiroy · Dec 15, 2022

BrotherWu said:
This game seems like it is one of those games that is more fun to talk/think about playing than actually playing (Eve?). It sounds good on paper but it's so ugly, complicated and unforgiving that I just don't get it. I tried the original a couple of times but it just seemed so bad.

What am I missing?

I think a 3D version of this game with a good interface could be awesome. Like a Dwarven remix of Valheim and Sims.

Never tried the old one, but this steam one is very easy to pick up if you're at all familiar with rimworld, prison architect, factario or oxygen not included. It's just another game like that, and even easier in some ways because although there's a lot of macro management, there's pretty much zero micro management. I got a good handle on it in like 8 hours and now have probably 20 hours in. Used my first colony to dig deep for science and lost it, started a new colony and feel like I have a pretty good command of everything.

And I'm not a particularly intelligent person.

Hatorade · Dec 15, 2022

Erronius said:
I'm not sure either, LOL. I just opened that game back up and I couldn't reproduce it.

Though on second thought, I'm wondering if maybe if I set it up to pull fruits/vegetables from a stockpile, if it then wanted to also pull an empty barrel from the same stockpile, and then it doesn't matter if I have 500 barrels around my fortress or not.

But I remember having empty barrels in the original stockpile so I don't know. All I know is I spent literal hours fucking with it, getting frustrated and going to play Valheim or TW, then coming back, rinse and repeat...

And to be completely honest, the only reason I decided to get so fucking anal about stockpiles and orders and everything else in this run, is that in previous runs I couldn't distill anything because my seeds kept disappearing. Which I assumed was because I wasn't paying attention to cooking and that shit doesn't return the seeds....

It's working now so I'm just like "don't fucking touch it"

View attachment 447959

Never really want always on, make a work order. Set it to like make 50 when less then 100 or whatever.

... · Dec 15, 2022

Erronius said:
I'm not sure either, LOL. I just opened that game back up and I couldn't reproduce it.

Though on second thought, I'm wondering if maybe if I set it up to pull fruits/vegetables from a stockpile, if it then wanted to also pull an empty barrel from the same stockpile, and then it doesn't matter if I have 500 barrels around my fortress or not.

But I remember having empty barrels in the original stockpile so I don't know. All I know is I spent literal hours fucking with it, getting frustrated and going to play Valheim or TW, then coming back, rinse and repeat...

And to be completely honest, the only reason I decided to get so fucking anal about stockpiles and orders and everything else in this run, is that in previous runs I couldn't distill anything because my seeds kept disappearing. Which I assumed was because I wasn't paying attention to cooking and that shit doesn't return the seeds....

It's working now so I'm just like "don't fucking touch it"

View attachment 447959

Yea I just don't cook seeds. Though I go beyond and grow.... quarry bushes for most meals which handle seeds better

Furry · Dec 15, 2022

You lose the spawn if you cook plump helmets, make sure to set them to only brew.

One of my dwarf children decided to go into a mood. She then promptly started asking for skeletons and cut gems, which I have plenty of. Another child wandering buy got bit by a cave spider and for some reason got it real bad. So he's trying to crawl to safety and might not make it. Perhaps his bones will suffice for her creation. Somehow some troglodytes got in my fort. Noticed when they attacked a dog. Apparently my cook was in the zone today, as he killed 3 of them in only a few seconds barehand, two of them by "exploding the head into gore" when he punched them.

There's lots of peaceful goblins in my fortress. I'm not sure what to make of that. I've also had goblins raiding too. I guess I must be peaceful with one of the goblin tribes?

Furry · Dec 15, 2022

Okay, this fortress is getting stupid. -Most- of my fortress is goblins, elves or humans poets. A lone dwarven spearman even appeared to attack my fortress head on. He passed out from exhaustion on the charge and then died in the snow, but we've taken it as a sign. The council of elder dwarves has been convened. The order to dig has been given. We dwarves must return to our roots!

I mean just have a look at my tavern.

Now that we've moved on, I checked the map and goblins are hostile. Is this because I had a legendary instrument? They were literally all poets. What a bizarre and unnatural fort.

Koushirou · Dec 15, 2022

Furry said:
Okay, this fortress is getting stupid. -Most- of my fortress is goblins, elves or humans poets. A lone dwarven spearman even appeared to attack my fortress head on. He passed out from exhaustion on the charge and then died in the snow, but we've taken it as a sign. The council of elder dwarves has been convened. The order to dig has been given. We dwarves must return to our roots!

I mean just have a look at my tavern.
View attachment 447986

Now that we've moved on, I checked the map and goblins are hostile. Is this because I had a legendary instrument? They were literally all poets. What a bizarre and unnatural fort.

Looks like you should have built a wall. They have to go back.

TJT · Dec 15, 2022

Furry said:
Okay, this fortress is getting stupid. -Most- of my fortress is goblins, elves or humans poets. A lone dwarven spearman even appeared to attack my fortress head on. He passed out from exhaustion on the charge and then died in the snow, but we've taken it as a sign. The council of elder dwarves has been convened. The order to dig has been given. We dwarves must return to our roots!

I mean just have a look at my tavern.
View attachment 447986

Now that we've moved on, I checked the map and goblins are hostile. Is this because I had a legendary instrument? They were literally all poets. What a bizarre and unnatural fort.

Man you sure fagged up this fortress. More poets than dwarfs huh?

Chris · Dec 15, 2022

Furry said:
Okay, this fortress is getting stupid. -Most- of my fortress is goblins, elves or humans poets. A lone dwarven spearman even appeared to attack my fortress head on. He passed out from exhaustion on the charge and then died in the snow, but we've taken it as a sign. The council of elder dwarves has been convened. The order to dig has been given. We dwarves must return to our roots!

I mean just have a look at my tavern.
View attachment 447986

Now that we've moved on, I checked the map and goblins are hostile. Is this because I had a legendary instrument? They were literally all poets. What a bizarre and unnatural fort.

Why are you so weak and allowing this nonsense to continue?

Dump them in a pit and let them eat each other.

Dwarf Fortress

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