Everquest - Selos Server - 20th Anniversary Casual Server

Pharone

Trakanon Raider
1,143
1,017
Hey straight up, anyone that puts 40 straight hours in to any game in order to be the first to do something deserves a congratulations.

That is nothing I will ever willingly do myself because life.

I do find it ridiculous though that some people think that just because Faceless competes on keying/flagging inherently means they are racing. Of course they are going to compete on keying/flagging. If they didn't, then I would be worried about them.

Just because they are choosing not to do 40 straight sessions to race should not mean they don't deserve the right to compete.

I applaud Amtrak on their server firsts, and at the same time, I applaud Faceless' approach to try to ensure a healthy guild environment for the long haul. I think both guilds deserve respect for what they do.
 

a_skeleton_03

<Banned>
29,948
29,762
I do find it ridiculous though that some people think that just because Faceless competes on keying/flagging inherently means they are racing.
Of course they should compete, it's just funny that its such a conflicting message from a lot of the members.

"We aren't racing so it doesn't matter"
"We totally went 1 for 1 with you in Storms" (they did not)
"Basically we beat you in Storms even with you cheating" (definitely did not)
"We got way more keys than you guys and you ran off when you saw us and couldn't hack enough picks"

Those are all statements that I have seen recently and multiple variations. The total delusion is actually full on hilarious. They could have literally counted exactly how many keys they got and figured out how wrong they were but to do so would shatter the narrative. If they did shatter the narrative the new one would just be "well they hacked picks". It's like politics on the right or left putting their blinders on.

This expansion was legit from all players as far as I could tell and it was a good time because of it.
 

Janx

<Silver Donator>
6,319
17,043
Not sure who Quelaag is in Faceless but dudes a baller. Guess he is PL up a cleric but randomly invited people into the PL group one of which was my necro. Pretty damn cool of him. Also I hate the flagging system of PoP. At what point does it switch from flagging to just having level reqs? Seems like I'll be spending most of this expansion leveling new classes.
 

Regime

LOADING, PLEASE WAIT...
<Aristocrat╭ರ_•́>
16,441
37,864
Well as many know my playtime has been limited so I’m still leveling and can’t raid yet. I just wanna point out to Sieger Sieger that I think you should take comfort in knowing at least from my small time leveling up that I’m really digging the server.

I feel like it is a lot of fun and very healthy. I’ve had excellent groups and lively chats with few boxers. (Not that I give 2 shits about boxers but some do.)

Now yes I’m playing a cleric but sukik sukik is a necro and he’s rocking groups easy too. Just my two cents. I think it’s surpassed my fondness of other TLPs.
 

yerm

Golden Baronet of the Realm
6,013
15,501
Of course they should compete, it's just funny that its such a conflicting message from a lot of the members.

"We aren't racing so it doesn't matter"
"We totally went 1 for 1 with you in Storms" (they did not)
"Basically we beat you in Storms even with you cheating" (definitely did not)
"We got way more keys than you guys and you ran off when you saw us and couldn't hack enough picks"

Those are all statements that I have seen recently and multiple variations. The total delusion is actually full on hilarious. They could have literally counted exactly how many keys they got and figured out how wrong they were but to do so would shatter the narrative. If they did shatter the narrative the new one would just be "well they hacked picks". It's like politics on the right or left putting their blinders on.

This expansion was legit from all players as far as I could tell and it was a good time because of it.

On day 2 I heard two statements:
1. Faceless claims they weren't racing but were raiding until 7am.
2. Faceless claims they went 50/50 on pos medals but no way they did.

Now that we know there were bonus pos picks open, I actually kinda believe faceless now. They eventually did get just as many medals and they weren't necessarily racing, just getting the most out of pos while they could.


What I do not see is a lot of amtrak hoorah-ing about race wins this time. We even all agreed to decline any sort of bling bling here. A little trash talk sure but we all kinda agree it wasn't a real race like server launch was. So more just lingering shit talk than anything.
 

Sieger

Trakanon Raider
317
366
Of course they should compete, it's just funny that its such a conflicting message from a lot of the members.

"We aren't racing so it doesn't matter"
"We totally went 1 for 1 with you in Storms" (they did not)
"Basically we beat you in Storms even with you cheating" (definitely did not)
"We got way more keys than you guys and you ran off when you saw us and couldn't hack enough picks"

Those are all statements that I have seen recently and multiple variations. The total delusion is actually full on hilarious. They could have literally counted exactly how many keys they got and figured out how wrong they were but to do so would shatter the narrative. If they did shatter the narrative the new one would just be "well they hacked picks". It's like politics on the right or left putting their blinders on.

This expansion was legit from all players as far as I could tell and it was a good time because of it.

There's literally no one in Faceless who actually had a count of storms keys vs Amtrak for one. That's not something we were even attempting to measure. Our goal was to key 60 and then stop, which is what we did. It took us exactly one cycle after you guys left the zone to do that--and you guys got the first cycle uncontested. Meaning both guilds finished in the same number of cycles, I have no idea how many you keyed since I had no way/interest in tracking that. If you want to know how both guilds finished in the same number of cycles it's because we got like 90-100 medallions totally uncontested, during the same time you guys were in Storms. That's because neither guild was effectively covering all the picks. In fact a box crew also got 3 minis and a smaller guild got 2 minis during the same span of time, that's how many picks were open and how unable we were to cover all of them between our two guilds--so while if you were in one of the "clash" picks you might have imagined one thing, the reality of keying was far different because most of the picks didn't involve significant clashes between the two guilds. Since I was the one actually managing who got medallions from all the picks we were in, I was in a unique situation to know exactly what was going on in every pick, and the vast, vast majority of the picks we were keying in we didn't get contested at all.
 

Sieger

Trakanon Raider
317
366
On day 2 I heard two statements:
1. Faceless claims they weren't racing but were raiding until 7am.
2. Faceless claims they went 50/50 on pos medals but no way they did.

Now that we know there were bonus pos picks open, I actually kinda believe faceless now. They eventually did get just as many medals and they weren't necessarily racing, just getting the most out of pos while they could.


What I do not see is a lot of amtrak hoorah-ing about race wins this time. We even all agreed to decline any sort of bling bling here. A little trash talk sure but we all kinda agree it wasn't a real race like server launch was. So more just lingering shit talk than anything.

Our plan was to get 60 storms keys so we could piggy our full first 72 into Agnarr. We were all committed to staying up as long as we could to try and get that done because it's important to us to get into PoTime quickly. Plane of Time is actually fully instanced content, so it doesn't actually affect Faceless if another guild gets there first--but it does affect us negatively if we aren't starting our first time lockout ASAP. We got it done about 3 days in (75ish hours), which is well within line for my assessment of what I wanted out of the first week of PoP.

For some background, I ran this same process on Agnarr. On Agnarr we had NO competition for Storms at all, other than like...one guild sniped a couple minis early in day 1. Most of Agnarr just chose not to be in Storms at the same time as us. Once the smaller guild left Storms on Day 1 we weren't even able to keep a 5th pick up, so we only had 4. I think eventually the 4th closed out and we only had 3. Our Agnarr guild isn't the zergmonster that Selo Faceless is, we had like 65 "humans" raiding PoP launch and a number of boxes. With basically free reign in storms it took us 30 hours to key 60. So I had bad feelz that with an active contest with Amtrak it would obviously be much slower probably for both guilds.

When I actually zoned in and saw all the picks, I knew that neither guild could mathematically cover them all, and they couldn't. I spread small forces around to a lot of the picks and kept a few larger forces in picks w/you guys, mainly as a sort of honey trap hoping to keep you guys more focused on those picks than all the uncontested ones. But even w/that strategy we had like 3 picks we never set foot in, just didn't have the numbers (we only used our first 72 crew to do storms, the rest of the guild was doing a whole separate progression launch night focused on doing the raid stuff.)

So by time, we ended up finishing 60 by 8 hours or so, from like 10Pm ET to 6AM ET. Then we went to bed. Our original plan left 12 of our 72 unkeyed for BoT, and a number of those guys decided they wanted to keep pushing for their keys since all the weird picks were still up, and there was no one contesting them. I think we ended up getting like another 8 keys before those people went to bed too, but our "organized" Storms farm w/the goal of keying 60 took 8 hours.

The way I see it whatever happened with the picks took 22 hours off of my time to finish PoP.
 
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a_skeleton_03

<Banned>
29,948
29,762
The way I see it whatever happened with the picks took 22 hours off of my time to finish PoP.
This right here is a win for everyone for sure.

I totally agree with you on everything you have said. You know and I know what your goals are. They are publicly stated.

I think a lot of your members are buying into some kind of narrative though that I find hilarious. You have a LOT of people though.

Compared to V Vise though I hope you understand that this pick hacking narrative is on the level of Tower 3 at 9/11 being destroyed by Mossad.

It really does mean a lot to me that this launch, not calling it a race, was completely clean.
 
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Sieger

Trakanon Raider
317
366
It's very difficult to effectively communicate w/a guild our size. We don't all raid together even. Like I barely raided with Ansel (one of our main raid leaders) in Luclin because he's always running one of the raids and I'm usually in one of the others. A good % of EQ players get their information over things they hear during voice comms in a raid, because despite me posting stuff repeatedly in Discord, in MOTDs, in the text of batphones etc people repeatedly ask the same question over and over again.

Hell, there was someone about to try to pop a "private" 6 man Storms DZ...yesterday, who thought it'd have all the minis in each camp up, luckily he asked me first and I explained to him the way the Storms DZs work and why he didn't want to pop one open with 6 characters.
 
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Il_Duce Lightning Lord Rule

Lightning Fast
<Charitable Administrator>
10,552
54,400
Sieger Sieger

It's too bad you weren't racing and you didn't win, because if you DID race and then win I had a sweet medal dreamed up of a faceless man suplexing a train for you guys to rock :cool:
 

Evernothing

Bronze Baronet of the Realm
4,682
8,492
206455
 
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Vise

Molten Core Raider
152
46
This right here is a win for everyone for sure.

Sure it made the whole server get PoStorms key faster. no doubt. and it would be nice if DGB fixed this bottleneck moving forward. but if you are going to try and set records it should be done legitimately and not exploited.

There are a TON of reasons why a gm spawning picks at 11pm make 0 sense. I also dont think most of Amtrak realize it. but it was a exploit. After i saw it done int he deep twice i started doing some research on how it worked. There is not a lot of info out on it and its very hush hush and I do not fully understand how it works but basically it has to do with leaving your toons in queue and relogging over and over.

How about we look at the logic here.

Amtraks standpoint A gm did it. Faceless has more motive to exploit it.

You are giving a gm a lot of credit here for knowing this bottle neck but why would he spawn them during off hour play times in the middle of the night and then despawn them at 6 am in the morning? Idk if Amtrak had any members in Postorms this weekend but there were raid forces siting on the spawns. doing this in a prime play time over the weekend would have made much more sense from a petition stand point.

Why would they just not fix this bottle neck for good? Minis in the dz, or lowing the threshold to 20 for storms would fix this issue forever.

Amtrak insist there was a gm there that did it and he wont give himself up because the flak hed get but why cant any of you remember his name?

IF faceless was the ones that exploit it why would they split down the dz and waste all that time? they claim they were not trying to race but it was obvious they wanted to get there asap. Does not make a lot of since wasting time with the dz if they knew they were going to exploit it.

You say Faceless had more motive but who was trying to set records and go for server first?

I do want to apologize to any amtrak who put in a ton of work only to have people claim exploits. but you have to understand from the outside this looked like some shady fucking shit coming from a guild that wanted to set records. and i think most of us agree if exploits were used you shouldn't get credit for setting a record.
 
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Vise

Molten Core Raider
152
46
The part that I fail to really understand is why anyone cares.
Why not just let anyone use warp hacks or the old hack that let you insta kill any mob. How about we all make bots who can afk insta kill everything. Who cares
 
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Keystone

Lord Nagafen Raider
460
253
So what you're saying is you think Amtrak actively hacked the EQ servers in order to spawn more picks of storms so they could get through faster than some "record" that was set that literally no one on the planet cares about or even knows exists except Faceless (because they had it previously?).

bit of a stretch imo
 

Cupie12

Send Tits Pls
288
170
So what you're saying is you think Amtrak actively hacked the EQ servers in order to spawn more picks of storms so they could get through faster than some "record" that was set that literally no one on the planet cares about or even knows exists except Faceless (because they had it previously?).

bit of a stretch imo

AoS had the PoP record before this launch.
 

Cupie12

Send Tits Pls
288
170
I do want to apologize to any amtrak who put in a ton of work only to have people claim exploits. but you have to understand from the outside this looked like some shady fucking shit coming from a guild that wanted to set records. and i think most of us agree if exploits were used you shouldn't get credit for setting a record.

You mean the record that our entire leadership already had from phinigel?
 

Vise

Molten Core Raider
152
46
So what you're saying is you think Amtrak actively hacked the EQ servers in order to spawn more picks of storms so they could get through faster than some "record" that was set that literally no one on the planet cares about or even knows exists except Faceless (because they had it previously?).

bit of a stretch imo
Less of a stretch then saying a gm spawned these picks and kept them open during the middle of the night and closed them in the early morning. Do Gm's even work int he middle of the night?
 

a_skeleton_03

<Banned>
29,948
29,762
Amtraks standpoint A gm did it.
No, the stance is maybe they played around with how picks work and the number of people in Deep for an XP weekend and PoStorms for PoP launch triggered it.

I talked to one of your officers and they said the EXACT same thing happened to you guys the day after ..... love how you gloss right over that.

You are powerful stupid.
 

Vise

Molten Core Raider
152
46
I'm a little disappointed that they (DBG) haven't come out and said "yeah we spawned these picks, sorry for making storms easier on everyone that was trying to get their flags done during the initial rush". But if they did that then they get flak from some of the Phinny/Agnarr/Coirnav for not doing it then as well, and it then gives players the reason to cry for it to be done again in the future for some zones so it's pretty much a lose/lose situation for outright admitting to doing it.

To the mystery GM/Dev (anyone that was in tranquility at the start of PoP should be able to figure it out) thanks, the race was long enough without having to spend an extra 10 hours in storms pickracing.
This all leads me to the simplest conclusion: someone at daybreak did this as a way to lower drama/petitions.
No, the stance is maybe they played around with how picks work and the number of people in Deep for an XP weekend and PoStorms for PoP launch triggered it.

I talked to one of your officers and they said the EXACT same thing happened to you guys the day after ..... love how you gloss right over that.

You are powerful stupid.
Sorry you guys have changed stances a few times now. hard to keep up with your current stance is

Which officer was that? We had a crew that zoned in at the tail end of it which they did pick some named from it however they closed on them. to my knowledge this is the only time we saw it, Which I Was in Postorms that entire next day.

Lets go over some powerful stupid math for you. to spawn a pick in Postorms it requires 40 people in EACH pick. to keep EACH pick open it requires around 10 players to stay in the pick at all times so it does not close.

11 picks of Postorms

11x40 = 440
11x10 = 111

So what you are saying is 440 toons worked together to spawn 11 picks of postorms and 111 toons worked together to keep all 11 picks open during the middle of the night? this is what your stance is?