Hearthstone

Necrath Evilcraft

Necrath Evilcraft

Golden Knight of the Realm
576
146
I've always thought the game could have been better with a 5-6 card sideboard and making a ladder with best of 3 games. But as someone said the ladder system is fucking awful. No risk and no reward feels bad when people play decks that lose to the meta horribly but punish other stuff. That is one of my pet peeves at least.
 
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Ravishing

Ravishing

Uninspiring Title
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some rule changes:

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/hearthstone/topic/20759378548#1


Might seem like small changes, but these fix some big complaints like OTK from evolving into Apothecary, and some others mentioned:

Card Played
Example Interaction:
Player 1 has a Mad Scientist on the board, and a Mirror Entity in their deck.
Player 2 plays Stampeding Kodo.
Before Update
1) Stampeding Kodo kills Mad Scientist.
2) Mad Scientist pulls Mirror Entity into play.
3) Mirror Entity triggers, copying Stampeding Kodo.
After Update
1) Stampeding Kodo kills Mad Scientist.
2) Mad Scientist pulls Mirror Entity into play.
3) Mirror Entity does NOT trigger, because it did not exist when Stampeding Kodo was played.

Minion Destroyed
Example Interaction:
Player 1 has a Piloted Sky Golem and a Wisp on the board (played in that order).
Player 1 plays Deathwing.
The Piloted Sky Golem spawn a Cult Master from its Deathrattle.
Before Update:
The Cult Master's power triggers off of the Wisp's death, and Player 1 draws a card.
After Update:
The Cult Master does not trigger off the Wisp's death, because it wasn’t present to see the Wisp destroyed.

Summon Minion
Example Interaction:
Player 1 has Starving Buzzard and Rotface on the board.
Player 1 also has a Flame Leviathan on top of their deck.
Player 1 plays Savannah Highmane.
Starving Buzzard triggers off of Savannah Highmane, causing Player 1 to draw Flame Leviathan.
Flame Leviathan triggers, dealing 2 damage to all characters.
Rotface triggers off the damage and summons Spiritsinger Umbra.
Before Update:
Spirit Singer Umbra triggers off the Savannah Highmane and summons two hyenas.
After Update:
Spiritsinger Umbra does not trigger off the Savannah Highmane, because she was not present when Savannah Highmane was played.
Click to expand...



Edit: Doesn't fix Apothecary, LOL

This mechanic change actually does not affect the Apothecary/Thrall interaction because that’s due to a different issue involving evolve effects activating certain summon triggers. However, we ARE specifically changing Apothecary in the next patch, so that it will no longer trigger off evolve effects.
Additionally, while it won’t make the next patch, we’re planning to make sure evolve effects won’t activate any summon triggers in the future.
Click to expand...
 
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Attog

Attog

Blackwing Lair Raider
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The way it used to work never made any sense, now it will behave the way it should have all along. This is basically a 4 year overdue bug fix.
 
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wormie

Asshat wormie

2023 Asshat Award Winner
<Gold Donor>
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The only important question is: how does this affect Yogg?
 
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Valishar

Valishar

Molten Core Raider
766
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Ravishing said:
I'm hesitant to believe the meta is all that shitty right now. Pre-nerfs was worse. This is decent. But we're in the "lull" period of the game. Pros don't care anymore because it's "off-season", so deck innovations are lax, and casuals that netdeck witness this, and also just meta-fatigue due to it being month (3?), already.
Click to expand...
The meta is okay. There are three classes with good performance (Rogue, Priest, Druid) each with a totally different archtype (tempo, control, and midrange). And occasionally you'll see a shaman, warlock or hunter.

I don't really like playing with or against the Rogue deck, mostly due to the highroll variance. Prince Keleseth + Shadowstep on turn 2? You win! Oh you drew patches and didn't get Keleseth on two? You lose! Apparently you get Keleseth and a Shadowstep around 10% of the time if you mull for them. And when you get them neither your skill or your opponents skill matters at all. Because that opener is just so strong.

Which means of the top three classes every single one has a win condition which feels horrible to lose to because you cannot really do anything about it. Too huge never-ending Jades, losing to priest machine gun fire, or losing overstated charge minions.

Almost as bad as when you used to lose because you were at 28 life on turn 10 and miracle rogue could do that much in a turn with no board.
 
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Mures

Mures

Blackwing Lair Raider
4,014
511
I mean you could easily lose to priest with no board at 28 life now so its not any better.

I wouldn't say this is the worst meta we've ever had, but definitely not as good as Un'goro meta.
 
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Krag

Krag

Peasant
475
47
slippery said:
Apparently the world championship isn't at Blizzcon?
Click to expand...
They changed that when they went to the three full set expansions, to have the final tournament at the end of the "standard year" instead of somewhere in the middle.
 
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Enzee

Enzee

Trakanon Raider
2,197
715
Valishar said:
The meta is okay. There are three classes with good performance (Rogue, Priest, Druid) each with a totally different archtype (tempo, control, and midrange). And occasionally you'll see a shaman, warlock or hunter.

I don't really like playing with or against the Rogue deck, mostly due to the highroll variance. Prince Keleseth + Shadowstep on turn 2? You win! Oh you drew patches and didn't get Keleseth on two? You lose! Apparently you get Keleseth and a Shadowstep around 10% of the time if you mull for them. And when you get them neither your skill or your opponents skill matters at all. Because that opener is just so strong.

Which means of the top three classes every single one has a win condition which feels horrible to lose to because you cannot really do anything about it. Too huge never-ending Jades, losing to priest machine gun fire, or losing overstated charge minions.

Almost as bad as when you used to lose because you were at 28 life on turn 10 and miracle rogue could do that much in a turn with no board.
Click to expand...
Yea, got into a discussion on a youtube video about this. The meta is 'balanced' from a numbers perspective, but not from an interaction standpoint.
So many decks are just disguised solitaire. Who gets their key cards, or not, determines the outcome. Rather then your in game decisions.
Flipping a coin is 'balanced', but not fun. You will win roughly 50% of the time, and you cant affect that. Whenever hearthstone moves too far in that direction, it isnt fun. The devs dont seem to understand how to design cards that are interactive on a broad scale without being OP.
They make narrow hate cards that almost auto win against the right deck, and almoat auto lose against other decks. Or, they make cards that are so flexible and powerful that they go in everything.
The base game rules make it harder to create interactions, since your opponent has almost no disruption during their turn, but its not impossible.
There should be ways to interact with any card type. The design of deathknights was flawed in that aspect. Even if it was just a card that punished repeated hero power use. The 'hate' cards, in general, need to be better against the field and weaker hate effects. I.e. eater of secrets should be like 4 mana, 4/4, destroy all enemy secrets. Period. No stat buff per secret.
Its not as useless against non-secret decks, and not as auto win against secrets.
Hungry crab- 2 mana 2/3, destroy a pirate to gain 2 life.
Blood knight- 3 mana 3/4, destroy a SINGLE divine shield to gain +1/+1.

These examples arent directly related to the top decks at the moment, but illustrates some of the issues with their design process in general. All the hate cards dont really get played, unless the deck they target becomes the #1 deck by a fair margin. Even then, lets say the big deck is 50% of the field. It feels unfun to draw the hate card against the other 50% because its often worthless since its so narrow.

If we had a card like: 5 mana, 4/5 dragon, when opponent uses a hero power, deal 3 damage to a random enemy character. Thatd help against razakus, as they either have to hit it 3 times with hero power (taking 9 on an empty board) or have some minions out to trade with it. Dragonfire doesnt clear it, and neither shadow word removes it. Using it at the right time can throw a wrench in their plans, or at least a speed bump. Similar to what loatheb used to do. But, its decent against other classes too. Mage cant ping it profitably. Hunter cant just finish you off with hero power. Paladin cant really use hero power on an empty board. Its not great against rogue, but thats ok. It shouldnt be great against everything, but a 4/5 for 5 isnt the worst. Overpaying 1 mana to make it awkward to re-dagger for a turn is 'eh, fine'. Its not winning, but its not so bad that you lose cause of it.

Anyway, the point is we need more decision points and interaction overall. However they attain that is fine with me.
 
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zzeris

zzeris

King Turd of Shit Hill
<Gold Donor>
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Enzee said:
Yea, got into a discussion on a youtube video about this. The meta is 'balanced' from a numbers perspective, but not from an interaction standpoint.
So many decks are just disguised solitaire. Who gets their key cards, or not, determines the outcome. Rather then your in game decisions.
Flipping a coin is 'balanced', but not fun. You will win roughly 50% of the time, and you cant affect that. Whenever hearthstone moves too far in that direction, it isnt fun. The devs dont seem to understand how to design cards that are interactive on a broad scale without being OP.
They make narrow hate cards that almost auto win against the right deck, and almoat auto lose against other decks. Or, they make cards that are so flexible and powerful that they go in everything.
The base game rules make it harder to create interactions, since your opponent has almost no disruption during their turn, but its not impossible.
There should be ways to interact with any card type. The design of deathknights was flawed in that aspect. Even if it was just a card that punished repeated hero power use. The 'hate' cards, in general, need to be better against the field and weaker hate effects. I.e. eater of secrets should be like 4 mana, 4/4, destroy all enemy secrets. Period. No stat buff per secret.
Its not as useless against non-secret decks, and not as auto win against secrets.
Hungry crab- 2 mana 2/3, destroy a pirate to gain 2 life.
Blood knight- 3 mana 3/4, destroy a SINGLE divine shield to gain +1/+1.

These examples arent directly related to the top decks at the moment, but illustrates some of the issues with their design process in general. All the hate cards dont really get played, unless the deck they target becomes the #1 deck by a fair margin. Even then, lets say the big deck is 50% of the field. It feels unfun to draw the hate card against the other 50% because its often worthless since its so narrow.

If we had a card like: 5 mana, 4/5 dragon, when opponent uses a hero power, deal 3 damage to a random enemy character. Thatd help against razakus, as they either have to hit it 3 times with hero power (taking 9 on an empty board) or have some minions out to trade with it. Dragonfire doesnt clear it, and neither shadow word removes it. Using it at the right time can throw a wrench in their plans, or at least a speed bump. Similar to what loatheb used to do. But, its decent against other classes too. Mage cant ping it profitably. Hunter cant just finish you off with hero power. Paladin cant really use hero power on an empty board. Its not great against rogue, but thats ok. It shouldnt be great against everything, but a 4/5 for 5 isnt the worst. Overpaying 1 mana to make it awkward to re-dagger for a turn is 'eh, fine'. Its not winning, but its not so bad that you lose cause of it.

Anyway, the point is we need more decision points and interaction overall. However they attain that is fine with me.
Click to expand...

Great post but they designed it specifically for zero interaction, and no difficulty to play. It really is solitaire throughout the entire match and you just have to hope to get the right cards or have the right rng. Bonemare is a huge swing and your only two options are keeping an entirely clear board or hoping for rng. Sounds like a blast and that's just a powerful common. Evolve, the DKs, etc are much more powerful. If MtG wasn't so damn expensive....it's really a massively superior game(at least it was 3 years ago).

Edit- On the broken mechanics front, it's always ridiculous to pick certain options on Kazakus because it doesn't work in order. Why in the fuck would I want a random minion to poly first before 4 damage to all? Why is this the second option ever if it always goes first?
 
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Lightning Lord Rule

Il_Duce Lightning Lord Rule

Lightning Fast
<Charitable Administrator>
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Also all current arena runs are ended on the 25th.

Lol, no more watching Kripp get sniped by OP wild arena decks from last year. I always boggled at that shit, heh.
 
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Krag

Krag

Peasant
475
47
Apparently there's a new, glorious bug for (at least some) EU players - surprise! - including me. Every card image in the collection was just white textures, decks not showing up, and couldn't connect to any game. Luckily someone figured out that changing language from English (UK) to English (US) fixes it.
 
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slippery

slippery

<Bronze Donator>
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I was able to spoof gps to unlock warlock hero. You don't have to play, you can just concede

Nox emulator, fake gps location app, find a tavern on the website that is currently active, set location, play a fireside brawl 3v3 thing (you can concede after the game starts). I just used this one

Fireside Gatherings
 
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Attog

Attog

Blackwing Lair Raider
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I've never done a fireside gathering before but I thought the whole point of them was to be on the same network.
 
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