Man of Steel

Grizzlebeard_sl

shitlord
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superman always has options. that is why he is superman.
He could have just flown straight up with Zod instead of wrestling him within range of people. That's the problem most folks have with Superman, they forget he can fly which adds a whole extra dimension to combat. Sure, Zod can fly as well but Superman should be more adept as he's spent way more time on the planet and absorbed the sun's rays yadda yadda.
 

Asmadai

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Damn, The Mad Scientist was like my favorite Superman cartoon episode as a child. I remember that shit vividly to this day.
 

DMK_sl

shitlord
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I don't think people are realizing this was an origin story. Superman is making mistakes because he is still young and still hasn't learnt how to deal with certain situations. I don't think he will kill again in any of the follow up movies.
 

Caliane

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I don't think people are realizing this was an origin story. Superman is making mistakes because he is still young and still hasn't learnt how to deal with certain situations. I don't think he will kill again in any of the follow up movies.
but the script and editing was not presented that way. you are making excuses that were not in the movie. As I said, if the end of the movie had catharsis. and Superman apologizing, no one would be complaining. but the movie completely ignored any of him having to deal with the choices or mistakes he made. The only conclusion is the movie makers didn't think he made any mistakes.
 

Arakkis

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Calling it now: Superman killing Zod rubs Batman the wrong way because of his own strict no killing policy. Batman bitches Superman out for killing Zod, some fights happen yadda-yadda, and Batman convinces him that he is on a dangerous path that will lead to him becoming an overlord of the Earth. Here you have a nice allusion to modern America with our great surveillance and military powers and our desire to protect slowly turning us from world police into a police state.

*doffs tinfoil hat and flies out through the ceiling*
 

TrollfaceDeux

Pronouns: zie/zhem/zer
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Redlettermedia said it the best. If Synder had established Superman's no killing policy, his cry after Zod's death would've have made more sense. He didn't. What a fucking hack. This is nothing, of course, when compared to baby massacre.
 

Neki

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Calling it now: Superman killing Zod rubs Batman the wrong way because of his ownstrict no killing policy.
For all the people angry with Superman killing Zod, I don't see many people bitching when BatmanKILLED TWO FACE

 

Juvarisx

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For all the people angry with Superman killing Zod, I don't see many people bitching when BatmanKILLED TWO FACE

To be fair that was the point of the movie. The Joker was actively trying to force Batman to break the his one rule and in the end succeeded
 

Void

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I was one of the biggest fanboys going into this, even though I'm not much of a Superman comic fan. I have also argued against people wanting this iteration of (insert name here) to be the exact same as the one from 50 years ago. And I enjoyed the movie a lot from a pure entertainment standpoint. I particularly enjoyed finally seeing Superman fight like Superman should.

But I have to agree with some of the people here, after watching it again. fucker said it very well a few posts up (I love saying "fucker this" and "fucker that"), the difference between Superman and everyone else is that HE is the only thing keeping him from going apeshit. Well, and his wholesome moral values that he was raised with of course, but that's all part and parcel with who Superman is. And they pretty much ignored all of that in the movie too. His father was nothing like Johnathon Kent should be. Smallville had years of course, but it wouldn't have been hard to convey that sense of values in a few scenes. Instead, they had Costner telling Clark that maybe he should have let kids die. No, Superman shouldn't, and wouldn't, ever. And his father would have never even considered telling him that either. The parents in this movie were more concerned about keeping him a secret than teaching him to be a good person. To do it right, you have to have them doing BOTH at the same time. Protecting him, but letting him do what is right.

I even liked Henry Cavill in the role unlike a lot of you, and I can appreciate it for being a different take. I didn't want a repeat of Superman 2 or any other version. But, I can understand the problems people have with it, and I guess I can even share the disappointment in some ways. I'm going to wall o' text for a minute, so skip it if you don't care.

My fascination with Superman began when I watched the black and white reruns as a kid like Astro did, and then when seeing Christopher Reeves in the theater (yes, I'm old). What kid wouldn't want to be virtually indestructible, super-strong, and a champion of "truth, justice, and the American way"? However, I always had a "higher" expectation of what I felt Superman should be like. I didn't want to see him round up tommy-gun toting bad guys, I wanted him to save the freaking world, repeatedly. I read a few comics, but most of the time they didn't really thrill me. That's also why I've never been a fan of Batman. I don't want to see someone defeat the bad guy through ingenuity and planning, I want to see them win out of pure ability and willpower (yes, I realize Batman has monumental will too). Sometimes that makes for a terribly boring character though, since his ability is so far off the chart. I fully understand that, and that's why I haven't been "wowed" by much in the way of Superman. Superman II came close to being what I wanted, as did the plane scene in Superman Returns. That was fucking awesome, period. Nerdy Clark Kent is ok, and I get it enough that it didn't bother me, but that transformation when he becomes Superman, raises his chin and looks to the sky with a clear purpose and will...that's the Superman that gives me chills. You see that, and you just know that shit is about to get real. Cavill did that well, but so did Reeves and Routh. Cavill is what I want Superman to look like though, if I got to pick.

Anyway, that's why some of the complaints are actually valid, and I understand them. fucker said it best, but others too. There is ALWAYS a way for Superman to win without killing. Let's forget about this movie altogether, because we can all think up several ways it should have been handled differently. It doesn't matter the situation, Superman finds a way, and if he doesn't, he's willing to give his own life to keep trying to find it. Honestly, I don't know if we'll ever see a "perfect" Superman movie. It is almost impossible. But this one could have been a lot better. Fix the entire dad storyline. God that was dumb. Show him trying to minimize the damage a bit more, and then realizing he can't, so he has to beat Zod as quickly as possible to keep the deaths down. Show him trying to capture Zod in the ship, and failing. Show him on his knees, despairing over the loss of life. Show him working tirelessly for day after day moving rubble and trying to find survivors. Show him giving a speech about failing, and promising not to let it happen again. And show him defeating Zod in some other way instead of killing him. I don't know what (other than Phantom Zone), but as I said, he ALWAYS finds another way. So give him one. Or have him shoot up into space instead of breaking Zod's neck, and then have Zod zoom away, vowing revenge, and have Superman tell him that he'll be waiting. Something. All of that would have made this movie about as close to perfect as I could hope, I think.

It has been linked a few times in various places, and I'm sure in this thread already, but the quote by Batman summarizes Superman perfectly for me:
It is a remarkable dichotomy. In many ways, Clark is the most human of us all. Then... he shoots fire from the skies and it is difficult not to think of him as a god. And how fortunate we all are that it does not occur to him.
That, right there, is the epitome of what Superman is. That is what a movie should capture. I've actually been struggling for 20+ years to write a novel much like this idea (not Superman specifically), but a) I'm lazy, and b) I just might not be a good enough writer. But I've thought about it endlessly for years, which is why I was dying for this movie to be awesome.

I did enjoy the movie, and I will watch it many more times over the years. But it could have been even better, and I understand why so many "fans" are disappointed with it. I'm able to overlook a lot of things in movies, so I was able to enjoy it for what it was, an action-explosion-kickass-version of Superman, minus most of the humanizing qualities that make Superman truly special (and admittedly, boring most of the time). But I understand where it could have been a lot, lot better.

Give me $500 million dollars and I'll make the fuck out of a perfect Superman movie, I promise you.
 

Caliane

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For all the people angry with Superman killing Zod, I don't see many people bitching when BatmanKILLED TWO FACE

Batman gets a pass because he a crazy person.


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Shonuff

Mr. Poopybutthole
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because the only limit to Superman is Superman himself. Because no one could stop him if he wanted to tore appart the entire DC universe singlehandely
Batman has beaten Superman almost five times now. Before the DC52, he had more Kryptonite than the entire world's governments combined, including Gold Kryptonite (one exposure of it takes away Kryptonian powers permanently).
 

Heylel

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Batman always requires a deux ex machina like kryptonite to win. They're fun stories, but basically just retell the same plot of every time Lex Luthor gets the better of him.
 

Nester

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If you want all the "superman doesn't kill" dick stroking with the added chance of "omg what if he did"

Check out "Superman vs The Elite" at your local Pirate Bay or Netflicks. The whole movie is about this issue.


Back to MOS, I liked that super man killed Zod, added some actual realism (lol ya I said it) to a superman movie. As others have stated, ZOD wanted to die, Suicde by Superman seems more fitting.
 

chaos

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but the script and editing was not presented that way. you are making excuses that were not in the movie. As I said, if the end of the movie had catharsis. and Superman apologizing, no one would be complaining. but the movie completely ignored any of him having to deal with the choices or mistakes he made. The only conclusion is the movie makers didn't think he made any mistakes.
It seems to me it was presented that way. It was an origin story with him trying to deal with his powers and what to do with them, what his limits would be, etc. He struggled with Zod for a hell of a lot longer than I would have before I smoked him. Then only when shit got drastic did he kill him, and pretty obviously was unhappy with what he had just done.

Who would he apologize to? Zod? Fuck Zod. Humanity? "Sorry for saving every single human life on Earth." Doesn't really fit. It was a personal issue, the end of the movie isn't exactly the place to deal with intense personal struggles.

I still don't get the morality argument. Banishing them to certain death by starvation/other in the phantom zone is somehow better?Killing is killing. All those kryptonians he sent tot he phantom zone without their little ice suit, they're dead. How many humans were killed in his various fights, even in the comics? It seems more like seeing the reality of what Superman does is what people find offensive rather than the actual killing itself.
 

Shonuff

Mr. Poopybutthole
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Banishing them to certain death by starvation/other in the phantom zone is somehow better?Killing is killing.
What the hell are you talking about? In the Phantom Zone, you don't need food or drink. Please infract yourself for the above statement, maybe even RRP.
 

chaos

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Movie doesn't explain that and the 80s Superman movies are boring and shitty so I never cared about them. THAT'S RIGHT I SAID THAT SHIT. They aren't in their little ice prison so I assumed they would be pretty dead. Even if they lived, so eternal imprisonment is the superior moral choice?

Reading up on it, so they are basically ghosts that live forever and can't interact with anything. Until the multiverse collapses in on itself and destroys all existence. Jesus christ. THIS is the moral choice?