Marriage and the Power of Divorce

Prodigal · May 9, 2025

Koushirou said:
Is there like some guide to communication in general? Some ways to practice? Anything? I'm fucking terrible at it. Anytime there was a problem I would only ever bring it up once and if it got brushed aside, I just buried it and was done with it, but that's obviously a shit way to do things and I'm sure has certainly contributed to where I am now. I'm so self-conscious about being just another annoying wife/girlfriend/etc. that just bitches about everything all the time and makes their man's life hell. How do you find the balance?

Eh even being married as long as I have been it’s always been a challenge. My wife wants to drop hints at what she wants, and I’ve made it very clear she’s only going to get what she wants if she tells me. On the flip side, she’ll ask me what’s the matter, I’ll tell her and she’ll be like, “what’s really the matter?” Well, what I just told you was the matter AND the fact that you don’t fucking listen.

Fucker · May 9, 2025

TJT said:
Isn't that like a degree of asexuality or something? Intimacy is a pretty important part of most relationships and the lack of it can certainly destroy them too.

I think he's referring to touchy/feely shit. Some people need a huge amount of it, and it gets really old really fast.

sleevedraw · May 9, 2025

Fucker said:
I think he's referring to touchy/feely shit. Some people need a huge amount of it, and it gets really old really fast.

Mostly this. Emotional intimacy is fucking exhausting. I can tolerate it in small doses (mostly listening), but it gets old, and it's even more exhausting when someone expects reciprocation. I don't even know how I feel most of the time.

Without going down the whole "asexuality is a spectrum" rabbit hole and pulling out ridiculous charts like this or labels like "demisexual" or "gray asexual"...

...the short version is that I have desires and fantasies, and those desires and fantasies are very much Kinsey 6 and have always been Kinsey 6. But it's like the nerve endings in my skin weren't installed correctly, and most of the time I just don't like the way someone touching me feels, regardless of whether it's sex or totally platonic like one of my relatives giving me a hug.

Cad · May 9, 2025

Koushirou said:
Is there like some guide to communication in general? Some ways to practice? Anything? I'm fucking terrible at it. Anytime there was a problem I would only ever bring it up once and if it got brushed aside, I just buried it and was done with it, but that's obviously a shit way to do things and I'm sure has certainly contributed to where I am now. I'm so self-conscious about being just another annoying wife/girlfriend/etc. that just bitches about everything all the time and makes their man's life hell. How do you find the balance?

I think it's all about how you do it. If you are approachable and just want to talk, and it's not just a bitch session... then its not a bitch session. If you make it painful, it'll be painful. If you don't, it doesn't have to be.

I think it's important to not make talks about "here's all the things you do that I don't like and why you're such an asshole" - instead do in a non-accusatory way. "It hurts my feelings when you say X, you may not mean it that way but thats how it affects me. Could you not say it that way or say Y or Z instead, it will be less hurtful." If your partner is "haha what a pussy, I'll say X whenever I want, fuck off" then thats not productive and thats not your person. If you do it in a respectful way and it's not a bitch session hidden behind better words, then it will be fine.

Communication is a two way street though, and both people have to want to do it. You have to resist the urge to go low and be mean. You shouldn't want to be mean to your person, they are your person.

When you do get mad, try not to use arguing words. I mean arguing words are like just calling each other names, "you always do X" or "you never respect me" etc.. just hurling things at each other that aren't productive. Always be trying to move your relationship and understanding forwards, not backwards. When a conversation gets to the point where it's just name calling, stop and cool off and try again.

Everything needs to be talked about, EVERYTHING. Your deepest darkest insecurities, especially. This person is supposed to be your life partner, you have got to be laid bare to them. And they to you. And you shouldn't judge them for theirs (even if they are silly or cliche) and they shouldn't judge you either.

Sorry I don't know what more to say because we're not discussing a specific thing. I'm the last person to ask how to find a new partner since I haven't dated, but I'm pretty good at sustaining a relationship!

Cad · May 9, 2025

sleevedraw said:
Mostly this. Emotional intimacy is fucking exhausting. I can tolerate it in small doses (mostly listening), but it gets old, and it's even more exhausting when someone expects reciprocation. I don't even know how I feel most of the time.

Without going down the whole "asexuality is a spectrum" rabbit hole and pulling out ridiculous charts like this or labels like "demisexual" or "gray asexual"...

View attachment 585719

...the short version is that I have desires and fantasies, and those desires and fantasies are very much Kinsey 6 and have always been Kinsey 6. But it's like the nerve endings in my skin weren't installed correctly, and most of the time I just don't like the way someone touching me feels, regardless of whether it's sex or totally platonic like one of my relatives giving me a hug.

Has there ever been anybody that you did like touching you or has it always been like this with everybody?

I don't really like most people touching me, like I find the way a lot of older men will put their hand on your shoulder or something while talking to you annoying as shit. And strange women always want to hug you hello or whatever. I don't like that touching. But me and my wife are like always sitting close enough that we're constantly touching, we sleep touching each other, etc.

Was there a partner in the past that did do it for you and this guy just doesn't? Was it always like this with him as well or has it evolved into this?

Noodleface · May 9, 2025

Koushirou said:
Is there like some guide to communication in general? Some ways to practice? Anything? I'm fucking terrible at it. Anytime there was a problem I would only ever bring it up once and if it got brushed aside, I just buried it and was done with it, but that's obviously a shit way to do things and I'm sure has certainly contributed to where I am now. I'm so self-conscious about being just another annoying wife/girlfriend/etc. that just bitches about everything all the time and makes their man's life hell. How do you find the balance?

This is really lame sounding but I started putting myself out there at work just talking to people. Like anything it requires practice. I can talk to pretty much anyone now

Seananigans · May 9, 2025

sleevedraw said:
Mostly this. Emotional intimacy is fucking exhausting. I can tolerate it in small doses (mostly listening), but it gets old, and it's even more exhausting when someone expects reciprocation. I don't even know how I feel most of the time.

Without going down the whole "asexuality is a spectrum" rabbit hole and pulling out ridiculous charts like this or labels like "demisexual" or "gray asexual"...

View attachment 585719

...the short version is that I have desires and fantasies, and those desires and fantasies are very much Kinsey 6 and have always been Kinsey 6. But it's like the nerve endings in my skin weren't installed correctly, and most of the time I just don't like the way someone touching me feels, regardless of whether it's sex or totally platonic like one of my relatives giving me a hug.

Have you ever tried hypnotism? It requires being open to it for it to work, but it might be worth exploring. You seem to be confused (and reading between the lines, more than a bit frustrated or exasperated) about yourself. That shit must suck.

sleevedraw · May 9, 2025

Cad said:
Has there ever been anybody that you did like touching you or has it always been like this with everybody?

Always been that way. I have a very small sample size compared with most people.

Seananigans said:
Have you ever tried hypnotism? It requires being open to it for it to work, but it might be worth exploring. You seem to be confused (and reading between the lines, more than a bit frustrated or exasperated) about yourself. That shit must suck.

Not open to anyone having that kind of power over me. I'm not looking to change the way I think; I like the way I think well enough (same reason I've never been on ADs, drunk, or high).

I just wish I could take everything/most everything I "feel" and discard it. Mindfulness? I don't know.

Khane · May 9, 2025

You sound like a real peach to be around.

sleevedraw · May 9, 2025

I'm not; I fully admit that.

And I don't think there's a way to fix me, so I'll just shut up and let others get their turn in.

Fucker · May 9, 2025

sleevedraw said:
Mostly this. Emotional intimacy is fucking exhausting. I can tolerate it in small doses (mostly listening), but it gets old, and it's even more exhausting when someone expects reciprocation. I don't even know how I feel most of the time.

It isn't even that complex, at least for me. It isn't that I don't know what I am feeling, because most of the time I am neutral. My GF is the same way. "I'm fine" actually means I am fine. There is no hidden layer of emotion above or below that. Content is another word for it.

We aren't affection-less, but neither of us need physical touch on a regular basis. No clingy need, nor any need to be around each other every hour of every day. We both need our space and it's no sweat to stay out of each other's hair.

Emotional intimacy can be a real drag, too. Heart to hearts, teary-eyed hand-wringing. Fuck all that. GF feels the same. We both know how we feel; no need to drag things out or injecting melodrama where none should exist in the first place.

Kithani · May 9, 2025

Noodleface said:
This is really lame sounding but I started putting myself out there at work just talking to people. Like anything it requires practice. I can talk to pretty much anyone now

I realize we're in the grown-up forum but this advice should be taken with the context that this is how you start on the long, trodden path to having a dude stop by daily and cropdust your cubicle

Seananigans · May 9, 2025

sleevedraw said:
Always been that way. I have a very small sample size compared with most people.

Not open to anyone having that kind of power over me. I'm not looking to change the way I think; I like the way I think well enough (same reason I've never been on ADs, drunk, or high).

I just wish I could take everything/most everything I "feel" and discard it. Mindfulness? I don't know.

Wanting to discard what you feel directly implies you’ve got some serious unresolved shit somewhere. Some number of open loops are running, and since you’re not aware of WHY they’re running, it just creates emotion that you have no way to reconcile. That’s not going to get better on its own.

ToeMissile · May 9, 2025

Seananigans said:
Wanting to discard what you feel directly implies you’ve got some serious unresolved shit somewhere. Some number of open loops are running, and since you’re not aware of WHY they’re running, it just creates emotion that you have no way to reconcile. That’s not going to get better on its own.

This. And I’ll add that hypnosis in therapy is not the same as “in stage spectacle” hypnosis. My wife has done some to help deal with some fucked up stuff from her childhood. Pretty significant results in just a couple appointments. IMO, she stopped too soon, but that’s a different issue. It’s been a while since we talked about it, but I do remember she said that she wasn’t not in control of herself or in some weird partial consciousness state, it just kind of helped her remember and deal with stuff she has spent her whole life sweeping under the rug.

There’s also CBT someone above mentioned. Try something, if it doesn’t work try something and/or something else.

Fucker · May 9, 2025

Seananigans said:
Wanting to discard what you feel directly implies you’ve got some serious unresolved shit somewhere. Some number of open loops are running, and since you’re not aware of WHY they’re running, it just creates emotion that you have no way to reconcile. That’s not going to get better on its own.

Disregarding feelings could also simply mean those feelings get cycled through the rational brain and then discarded as being irrational. This is what separates us from our primal chimp brains. It has nothing to do with unresolved shit or anything else. There's no need for it to "get better" because nothing is broken in the first place.

In terms of relationships, there is often a need to balance one's own emotional needs and the needs of those we love. Difficulty arises when one party is inelastic in their needs and disregards your own. This induces a slew of mixed and often contradictory feelings. Our chimp brains wield primacy in this area because deep emotions are hard wired to the various cores of our brains and can be difficult to overcome when external and internal stresses become great enough. In this area, no one single person may be broken, but simply incompatible on a long enough scale of time.

Noodleface · May 10, 2025

Kithani said:
I realize we're in the grown-up forum but this advice should be taken with the context that this is how you start on the long, trodden path to having a dude stop by daily and cropdust your cubicle

Nah man that dude was forced on me. Corporate rape

moonarchia · May 10, 2025

sleevedraw said:
I'm not; I fully admit that.

And I don't think there's a way to fix me, so I'll just shut up and let others get their turn in.

We are who we are, and if you don't want to change that, it's OK. That is a choice, though, and you are grappling with the costs of it. As long as you are able to accept the costs and own the choice, you are good. Maybe not happy, but life isn't always about happiness.

Control · May 10, 2025

Koushirou said:
Is there like some guide to communication in general? Some ways to practice? Anything? I'm fucking terrible at it. Anytime there was a problem I would only ever bring it up once and if it got brushed aside, I just buried it and was done with it, but that's obviously a shit way to do things and I'm sure has certainly contributed to where I am now. I'm so self-conscious about being just another annoying wife/girlfriend/etc. that just bitches about everything all the time and makes their man's life hell. How do you find the balance?

It's hard to have much of a guide when people can be so different with how they communicate. It's easiest (not necessarily the same as best though) when you find someone that's around the same level of introversion/extroversion as you, but even still, people deal with things very differently. My wife and I are both very introverted. We don't actually talk very much, and we're both pretty happy about that. However, if something is bothering her, I want her to tell me, even if she has to tell me in a way that I don't like. I would prefer that we both spend energy on fixing a problem instead of wasting energy trying to find an ideal way to talk about it or just bottling it up. It doesn't always happen of course, but we both want it to. If your person is brushing off a problem, then he either doesn't realize that you have a problem or he doesn't care. If he doesn't care, that's a problem of its own obviously. If he does care but doesn't realize, then keep at it until he does. I would much rather feel momentarily bitched at than let a problem I could have fixed persist.

Of course, that's once two people care about each other. When you're still getting to know each other, it's probably better to tread more lightly, but at the same time, there's a lot of "pre-qualifying" that goes on during that time. Some people try to put on too much of a show, but imo, it's much better to find out quickly if something's gonna be a problem. The incel thread will tell you that "be yourself" is shitty advice, and that's probably true if you just want to hook up with someone. Filtering out anyone that can't deal with you being yourself is a pretty good way to end up with someone who can.

Big Phoenix · May 10, 2025

Koushirou said:
How do you find the balance?

You only bring up issues that actually matter like overstepping boundaries or self destructive behavior. When you bring up trivial issues like how they load the dishwasher or which route they took to get to the store, thats just nagging and breeds resentment.

Hoss · May 10, 2025

Koushirou said:
Is there like some guide to communication in general? Some ways to practice? Anything? I'm fucking terrible at it. Anytime there was a problem I would only ever bring it up once and if it got brushed aside, I just buried it and was done with it, but that's obviously a shit way to do things and I'm sure has certainly contributed to where I am now. I'm so self-conscious about being just another annoying wife/girlfriend/etc. that just bitches about everything all the time and makes their man's life hell. How do you find the balance?

You need to talk to him and find out what clues he needs to know something is a real issue for you. We don't know you in real life. You may bring up 1000 trivial things for every serious complaint. You may make light of the serious complaints and they sound like a joke. We just don't know. So talk to him, figure out a way to communicate the concerns that he will understand. Maybe write it on a white board. Maybe he will want you to say it more than once. My wife and I have a time right before bed where we talk. It's usually not about anything heavy, but we're not on the computers, phones, or watching TV. It's a chance to bring up serious things and not a time to joke.

Also, I second everything cad said about the tone and wording.

Cad said:
If your partner is "haha what a pussy, I'll say X whenever I want, fuck off"

My wife's response to this would be something along the lines of "Yes, i do have a pussy and I am a delicate flower. I may be a tough broad to the outside world, but I can only do that without going crazy because you treat me like a delicate flower in private". That's paraphrasing, but she has said something similar to that more than once.

Marriage and the Power of Divorce

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