Might & Magic X: Legacy

Pyros_sl said:

Well you can edit the penalty in the files to be 0, so you hit for full damage with bows, it's justifiable by the fact your archer could be shooting from behind your tank, or by the fact casters don't have any penalties. Even then though bow/crossbow damage is fairly bad vs fully speced melee. Part of it due to melee generally getting 2 branches to improve damage(the weapon and 2H or Dualwield), and better upgrades overall.

That said as we mentionned in the last few pages, optimization isn't necessary for game completion at all, it just makes it faster by making a lot of stuff absolutely trivial. I finished the game with my first group which was similar to yours but I had a Mercenary instead of Runepriest(which arguably is even a worse setup). Didn't waste points in bows though because I had already rerolled from another group so I knew bows were shit and went with the Ranger as a DW dagger char. Nothing was particularily challenging once I got rolling, but still required some thought and using different skills and shit. If you make the perfect group, you can basically autoattack one round everything in the game once you reach lvl 20ish or so and you have 0 chances of dying ever. Only reloads you'd need would be if one of your chars get stunned or whatever because you forgot the fire buff and lost xp because of it. So yeah.

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Probably going to keep the same team but swap the ranger for either a barb or blademaster. I'm iffy on the blademaster as my crusader is obviously speccing sword, and I'd like to avoid having two toons using swords as it's typically harder to come across two epic weapons of the same type.

God I'm loving this game.. I can't believe how many reviews slammed it because of the grid/tile movement-- I love it! So much more tactical and makes more sense from a mapping standpoint. Seriously hope this is the beginning of a golden era that resurrects the classic CRPG..

theres also handhelds.
Etrian Odyssey 1-4
Etrian Odyssey

4 review with footage. 3ds. the stylus, etc adds some really cool additions to the gameplay. heck the hallways, are almost MADE for the 3ds.
[HD] 3DS Etrian Odyssey IV Legends Of The Titan Review -- [ Review Zone HD ] - YouTube

Caliane_sl said:

theres also handhelds.
Etrian Odyssey 1-4
Etrian Odyssey

4 review with footage. 3ds. the stylus, etc adds some really cool additions to the gameplay. heck the hallways, are almost MADE for the 3ds.
[HD] 3DS Etrian Odyssey IV Legends Of The Titan Review -- [ Review Zone HD ] - YouTube

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Ugh, if only I could overcome my revulsion for cutesy game characters that look like they are the offspring of Akira and Rainbow Brite.

Caliane_sl said:

Magic crit is definitely broken. didnt look close enough at phys yet.

like looking at this right now.

blizzard on elite harpies.
197 damage to one.
540 damage critical to the other.
Damage lists at 112-156.
The char has 8% crit rate, and +56% magic crit damage.
Thats 275% damage.

implosion on the freemage.
156 damage.
467 damage critical.
+26% chance, and +66% damage.
Thats 300% damage.

Base is 20%. So, what is that?

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I did a bit of look, it's working as expected, it's just your assumption is incorrect - base crit is 100% extra damage, the amount listed on your char sheet is the bonus added to that default 100%.

So for your example, the first one would be 256% damage and second 266% - I'd imagine the variance for your examples is just the damage rolls in the range. I tested by setting firebolt to a fixed amount of damage, the numbers come out exactly.

Physical crit seems to work the same way, other than it being much harder to raise your crit damage %.

My scout has +30% crit damage on axes. and +50% to crit damage for axes vs skills.
+80% crit damage.

Her damage lists as 113-186 main hand(14 air), 79-127 offhand(7 air).

146/109 on dark wizard(sundered). most of the air was resisted anyway.
255 crit/84 (250 phys, 5 air.

255 is not 280% of 146.
its 175%.


So magic is inexplicably getting an extra 100% crit damage.

Well, it could be intentional I guess. Melee not needing mana is a massive advantage over magic, plus a melee like a blademaster should have 25+% crit chance. I seem to recall my runelord was only around 12% even with GM focus.

Caliane_sl said:

My scout has +30% crit damage on axes. and +50% to crit damage for axes vs skills.
+80% crit damage.

Her damage lists as 113-186 main hand(14 air), 79-127 offhand(7 air).

146/109 on dark wizard(sundered). most of the air was resisted anyway.
255 crit/84 (250 phys, 5 air.

255 is not 280% of 146.
its 175%.

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I rechecked and realised I didn't account for the orc racial, oops. I redid a test with all human mercenaries using fixed 1000 damage weapons

sword 1168(62) 1752(93) 1.5
axe 1168(62) 1518(81) 1.3
mace 1168(62) 1402(74) 1.2
dagger 1168(62) 1970(104) 1.69
spear 1168(62) 1752(93) 1.5

So it looks like the crit damage is the weapon crit damage, and nothing else, including the 20% it lists on your charsheet. Maybe that's for punches or something ?

I spose the test offered a side benefit of confirming there is no shady business going on with interactions between crits and resistances - the resisted damage is in the same proportion to non resisted in both a crit and a non-crit, so they are evidently multiplied together.

Vorph_sl said:

Well, it could be intentional I guess. Melee not needing mana is a massive advantage over magic, plus a melee like a blademaster should have 25+% crit chance. I seem to recall my runelord was only around 12% even with GM focus.

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I can't see that. magic has the ranged advantage. and at low levels its not a "huge" deal due to low crit %.

its got to be a mistake. GM mages are just insanely overpowered. its absolute overkill. Although, that is still the deal. its overkill. Melee damage is MORE then good enough to beat the game, even on warrior. (ranged attacks, probably not...) But chain lightnings critting for 2.5k as noted. Implosions critting for well over 1k.
2-3 freemages probably could 1 round just about anything at 4 range between chain lit and implosion.

I keep feeling tempted to reroll. On the one hand crusader, 2x blademaster and freemage feels pretty awesome. Need to be able to just skip the 'tutorial' bits of walking aorund the town grabbing all the chests and barrels at the start to make it less painful whenever I waffle and want to try a different loadout.

So I'm sold on druid, RP and bladedancer. Now torn between Crusader and Freemage. i know GM air magic is pretty damn awesome. However, it takes a long time to get that point. On the other hand you can get crusader mandate of heaven pretty early and that plus dw swords/master early on is pretty butter inducing, especially if you build your crusader pure DnD cleric mode (pumping magic+spirit) Plus freemage is pretty much useless on anything with lots of air resist through the first 80% of the game and reduced to spamming cloak of shadows.

It's just you see those 1k+ crits on chain lightning and wonder...

fuuu

I just can't justify freemage. CL doing stupid damage is great and all but I don't feel it's worth playing a gimped class for the first 3 chapters or whatever. Agony doesn't come close to mandate of heaven either in terms of raw damage output. I can live without purge. CA is also extremely powerful until you get living membrane as well. You also get CL anyways, you just can't GM it or GM focus mastery but by that point runepriest and BD are blowing shit up so fast it wouldn't matter anyways.

Prime is pretty strong too really. Implosion specifically. Almost nothing has any prime resist. Mass dispel is nice too. cures stun, curse, paralyze, sleep, weakness, feeblemind. Purges all buffs too though. But instant clear of any exp killer is nice.
Alot of it is is the "overkill" question though. and archmage promo is pretty fast when you know where to go for it. 1st run probably the last one you will get.. 2nd run, may even be the first.

My freemage has been pretty consistently the strongest damage output. Ran out of mana alot early. as I was pumping magic 2, vit1, spirit1. Master air is in the Crag, so you do need to be able to run over there as soon as possible. which is some decent fights. if you are an all mage team, might be extremely hard. resist/regen pack.
Chain lit, and cyclone though put her soundly on top again though.

She has 90 magic, 500 mana, 29% crit chance, +96% crit damage(196%). GM focus, air, and prime. at level 26 now.
Implosion will crit for about 1000 single target. Chain lit is about 800-1200 I think vs 3.
I dont really use hour of power or destiny honestly. again just overkill. If the raw damage WASN'T so strong, they would be nice. Atm its 22 destiny for that buff, which is 22 evade, and 4%crit chance. hour of power is.. +11 might, perc, dest, magic. iirc.

I did not do dark past expert.
The Archmage class ability timestop... would have been nice at level 5. But by the time you get it, your party is complete faceroll, making it pointless.

Druid yeah. no question strong. Membrane, regen. stonearmor. Can also gm prime.
I would probably suggest that. Get master water for para cure, and membrane.
GM earth asap. Get prime to implosion, which is master? then prime to GM.

I never did play Legend of Grimrock when it came out last year. How is it compared to M&M here, for those of you that played both? Is it worth going back and playing? My favorite parts of M&M are the puzzles & secrets to find, does Grimrock have anything of the sort or is just all pure combat-based gameplay?

joeboo_sl said:

I never did play Legend of Grimrock when it came out last year. How is it compared to M&M here, for those of you that played both? Is it worth going back and playing? My favorite parts of M&M are the puzzles & secrets to find, does Grimrock have anything of the sort or is just all pure combat-based gameplay?

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Grimrock is all about the puzzles and secrets. They are much more reliant on the player rather than the characters too - spotting loose rocks to click instead of putting up a buff and seeing a giant flashing symbol to show you a secret.

yes. if you like this. you'll probably like grimrock.

As Velk said, puzzles in grimrock are more YOU though. solving things around you. you have to WATCH the walls, as hidden doors are entirely visual. buttons, loose rocks, etc.
Grimrock is action based tile movement. So, skills have a timed base cooldown. and are preformed as fast as you click. if you just stand there, the monsters will attack you over and over. it is NOT turn based.
Party is 4 person, and has front row/back row format. Position matters. melee up front, ranged in the back. if you are attacked from the back or sides, melee will be able to hit THAT row. if you have an archer in your back row on the left. that archer can only attack the LEFT row of the enemy as well, until that one dies, and the right side becomes the middle.
Food and starving is a resource. So are torches or light spell. (generally I would say there is plenty though)
Weight is a real concern.
There is no town/shops. its one of those "you are locked in a giant dungeon. the only way out, is at the bottom" old school games.
Spells are runes. you cast spells by memorizing the rune order yourself, and clicking on the runes. Its entirely manual.

The game does have a bit of a problem in there is effectively a right and wrong party. Its not a roguelike. Without spoilers if you don't want them. lets say, you can't really make an 4 archer party, because there are not 4 epic quality bows. There are a specific set of items in the game. not that the game is THAT hard. But the strong weapons/armor are much better then the not strong.

Patch is coming soon btw.
3 new dungeons. alot of bug fixes, and some balance changes. increased 2h, ranged damage.
nerfs to mage GM focus and overall GM damage.