Monsters and Memories (Project_N) - Old School Indie MMO

Flobee

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Ya wasn’t sure. My mistake.

i haven’t seen anyone here worried about uber guilds getting world firsts, or nolifers hitting cap first, or anything similar. People are worried about key progression points being gated by autists, or entire sections of the game being unavailable because of soft PVP based in time investment, not skill.

NWC has given zero indication that they are willing to budge on any part of their vision that reduces ‘friction’, so I’m less optimistic than you about the management issue.
My read is that they're unwilling to provide the specific solutions yourself and others are claiming are required (instancing etc), not that they're just going to let no-lifers ruin the end game for everyone else. Perhaps it is just a factor of me being optimistic vs general pessimism on this forum. I expect designers to design and I don't think its an unsolvable problem. Guess we'll see
 

Kaines

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My read is that they're unwilling to provide the specific solutions yourself and others are claiming are required (instancing etc), not that they're just going to let no-lifers ruin the end game for everyone else. Perhaps it is just a factor of me being optimistic vs general pessimism on this forum. I expect designers to design and I don't think its an unsolvable problem. Guess we'll see
It absolutely is NOT an unsolvable problem. But the solutions are something NWC seems wholly UNINTERESTED in.
 

TJT

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On p99 there were 3 month waiting lists for Raster of Guk, and if it spawned while you were logged out too fucking bad lmao

That server has fewer than 2000 players. Imagine a contested world with triple that.
I am way too old for that shit lol.
 
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TJT

Mr. Poopybutthole
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My read is that they're unwilling to provide the specific solutions yourself and others are claiming are required (instancing etc), not that they're just going to let no-lifers ruin the end game for everyone else. Perhaps it is just a factor of me being optimistic vs general pessimism on this forum. I expect designers to design and I don't think its an unsolvable problem. Guess we'll see

Casuals will not care if Uber Big Cock Dragon is permacamped by poopsockers. They will care if generic class quests similar to Robe of the Lost Circle or whatever that requires no raid/end uber content is permacamped by poopsockers on top of them taking everything else too.
 
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Daidraco

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Youre correct afaik, in that they just wont give the answers away. Theres stuff in the game that Ive heard them say “i cant wait for you guys to find it” and I never hear about it again. Obscure quest maybe? Some kind of combination that summons something? All that type of shit is in this game. Yea - it does lend itself to elitism or cliques keeping the info quiet. But the mystery concept in MMO’s has been an attribute in how many animes? Hell, thats even the core concept in Ready Player One movie / book.

I also agree with Flobee Flobee - in that the majority of people playing the game will not see this content anytime soon. Or it wont even be on your radar to begin with because you just wont know about it. But on that same note - if you played the game at just a minor amount of length, then you know that the same item or a variation of that item drops in multiple locations across multiple areas. The haste cloak in Tomb, early dungeon, it drops off multiple bosses. The armor quest pieces drop off multiple bosses. This type of implementation is rampant throughout the game.

That seems to at least be their middle ground for the instancing conversation that still provides multiple opportunities for you to obtain what you want. If you cant get into the dungeon with your group- then within 5 minutes there are places for your groups to go to exp and possibly loot. Walk a little further and youre at a whole new instance that people generally dont go to - not because its bad, but because Tomb is 30 seconds from NH and that dungeon* is a 5-10 minute walk. Which is also passing multiple camps with rares on the way there. (If you get where Im going with this.)

As far as end game? I see no literal difference in EQ’s end game and this games end game. The levels for end game bosses are all over the place. But just because a boss is 56 - doesnt mean hes a pushover for 60’s. The sandstorms you run into, you may or may not want to blindly walk through the middle of them when the game goes live. Then, just as I mentioned with the loot - theres tons of different end game “bosses” for people to kill. I just dont see how a top end guild wouldnt get burned out killing everything on repeat for weeks on end, tracking it all. The amount of mobs thats known and listed on discord that fall into this category “raid boss” - would easily match the amount of bosses available in classic, Kunark and Velious (VP and TOV included). Are they pinnacle bosses? No - but neither was Venril Sathir. How many people had not only the time to kill Vulak, but the numbers and raid strategy to do so in regards to pinnacle bosses, anyways? Very few. So yes, it does read like a big post of whining when you guys talk about elitism, cliques, etc.
 
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Kaines

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Youre correct afaik, in that they just wont give the answers away. Theres stuff in the game that Ive heard them say “i cant wait for you guys to find it” and I never hear about it again. Obscure quest maybe? Some kind of combination that summons something? All that type of shit is in this game. Yea - it does lend itself to elitism or cliques keeping the info quiet. But the mystery concept in MMO’s has been an attribute in how many animes? Hell, thats even the core concept in Ready Player One movie / book.

I also agree with Flobee Flobee - in that the majority of people playing the game will not see this content anytime soon. Or it wont even be on your radar to begin with because you just wont know about it. But on that same note - if you played the game at just a minor amount of length, then you know that the same item or a variation of that item drops in multiple locations across multiple areas. The haste cloak in Tomb, early dungeon, it drops off multiple bosses. The armor quest pieces drop off multiple bosses. This type of implementation is rampant throughout the game.

That seems to at least be their middle ground for the instancing conversation that still provides multiple opportunities for you to obtain what you want. If you cant get into the dungeon with your group- then within 5 minutes there are places for your groups to go to exp and possibly loot. Walk a little further and youre at a whole new instance that people generally dont go to - not because its bad, but because Tomb is 30 seconds from NH and that dungeon* is a 5-10 minute walk. Which is also passing multiple camps with rares on the way there. (If you get where Im going with this.)

As far as end game? I see no literal difference in EQ’s end game and this games end game. The levels for end game bosses are all over the place. But just because a boss is 56 - doesnt mean hes a pushover for 60’s. The sandstorms you run into, you may or may not want to blindly walk through the middle of them when the game goes live. Then, just as I mentioned with the loot - theres tons of different end game “bosses” for people to kill. I just dont see how a top end guild wouldnt get burned out killing everything on repeat for weeks on end, tracking it all. The amount of mobs thats known and listed on discord that fall into this category “raid boss” - would easily match the amount of bosses available in classic, Kunark and Velious (VP and TOV included). Are they pinnacle bosses? No - but neither was Venril Sathir. How many people had not only the time to kill Vulak, but the numbers and raid strategy to do so in regards to pinnacle bosses, anyways? Very few. So yes, it does read like a big post of whining when you guys talk about elitism, cliques, etc.
Tell me you were never in a high-end EQ raid guild without telling me you were never in a high-end EQ raid guild.
 
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Daidraco

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Tell me you were never in a high-end EQ raid guild without telling me you were never in a high-end EQ raid guild.
Then you literally have no clue who I am. Not that that even matters. How about, in your infinite experience with raiding in EQ - you clarify what youre talking about?
 

Kaines

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Then you literally have no clue who I am. Not that that even matters. How about, in your infinite experience with raiding in EQ - you clarify what youre talking about?
No one gives a shit about Befallen being perma-camped. People absolutely care that Frenzied Ghoul is permacamped. And thinking there aren't enough autists to perma-camp the given stated number of raid targets in game is just willful ignorance.
 
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Flobee

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No one gives a shit about Befallen being perma-camped. People absolutely care that Frenzied Ghoul is permacamped. And thinking there aren't enough autists to perma-camp the given stated number of raid targets in game is just willful ignorance.
I think the point is that it's a design decision to have 1 frenzied ghoul, that's spawns in one spot, in one zone. It's a design decision that is optional. Just because EQ did things this way doesn't mean MNM has to.

Let's use the Raster example. You could make him an ultra rare spawn at 7 spawn points across 4 zones. He could be just as rare as he is in EQ (approximately) while being much more difficult to monopolize. Doable, yes, but remember this is a mob for one epic on one class. Likelyhood of a whole guild working to monopolize something like this is low, and you can adjust those number as you please to get the desired result if it is still an issue.

Additionally if you WANT competition for let's say Vulak, you can absolutely maintain the competition for a spawn like that while not imposing that kind of pressure on smaller scale goals.

EQ made a bunch of design decisions that sucked, but you don't have the throw the baby out with the bathwater to solve them. This is what I'm talking about when I say I expect designers to design, they don't have to copy/paste the parts that don't serve them. I expect some attempts to succeed and some to fail, but I also expect them to adjust to player behavior.
 

Daidraco

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No one gives a shit about Befallen being perma-camped. People absolutely care that Frenzied Ghoul is permacamped. And thinking there aren't enough autists to perma-camp the given stated number of raid targets in game is just willful ignorance.
Thats a fair assumption from someone looking in from the outside. But I answered that complaint in the original post. There are multiple frenzies across the game. You might have 1 str on one cloak and 1 stam on the other. Which sure, argue about BIS. But when Frenzied Ghoul was relevant - I wouldnt have given a single fk about which one I had as long as it had the same effect.

Same for raid targets in the general idea as far as loot goes. But again, youre not in the weeds apparently and have no clue. There are just too many bosses for even a zerg guild to realistically camp and kill. The spergs that got 60 in the first week will have moved on in progression to higher end shit far before your average person gets 60. With so many targets, its just not realistic - I promise you.

Look - read my old posts. Im clearly a fan of instancing. But constantly bucking against their ideas and not even attempting to understand their PoV is just being obtuse. Do I agree with no instancing? No. I think there is a point when player level saturation will beat their content pace and then its all down hill. But launch will be fun in the very least.
 
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Kaines

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Do I agree with no instancing? No. I think there is a point when player level saturation will beat their content pace and then its all down hill. But launch will be fun in the very least.
And here is where you and I ultimately agree. Which is why I put that mark at the 6 month line.