Kithani
Blackwing Lair Raider
- 1,757
- 2,476
Back in nineteen-dickety-nine!
We tied an onion to our belts, which was the style at the time…
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Monsters and Memories (Project_N) - Old School Indie MMO
- Thread starter Flobee
- Start date
We tied an onion to our belts, which was the style at the time…
Hekotat
FoH nuclear response team
- 12,815
- 12,867
This motherfucker ain't one of us! He's one of those yellow onion dogs, purple onions represent!
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Kithani
Blackwing Lair Raider
- 1,757
- 2,476
Araxen
Golden Baronet of the Realm
- 10,860
- 8,313
As much I want to love this game if they don't learn from the bullshit that happens on P99. There are massive clock blocks on mobs there. You can't even kill Drusilla in a non-raid zone without putting up with some bullshit due to perma-camping/batphone shit. It will get that bad. If they turn a blind eye to it, this MMO is doomed. People won't put up with the kind of time investment you need to get max level, and them be cock blocked out of content. It's ridiculous. They are underestimating the tylenol eaters(autists) that play these games.
Flipmode
EQOA Refugee
- 2,106
- 338
Dont know why it has to be one or the other, why can't it be both? You can have both instanced raids and open world targets.
Quaid
Trump's Staff
- 12,175
- 8,604
Players advocating for 100% contested raids simply wish to deny content and resources to other players as part of their gameplay experience. There's no other reason beyond simian coconut wars.
From the dev team all I've heard on the topic is some variation of "that's not the feeling we're going for" whenever it's brought up.
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Burns
Avatar of War Slayer
- 8,673
- 16,762
Yarp, it similar to the PvP griefer discussion that was had some pages back. Degenerate autists want to force everyone into degenerate autist gameplay so they can feel some sense of superiority. Always seen the degenerate PvP players as the epitome of that mindset.
While I didn't raid in EQ due to time constraints, I participated in the outdoor bosses during their prime in WoW (Azuregos, Kazzak, and Green Dragon). I can't say I have any positive memories of them and they lead to a lot of animosity/negative feeling on the server. If that's all that was available, I would have quit long before the endless 4H attempts.
In WoW, even the structured PvP on non-PvP server was much more friendly and we would often talk to the opposite faction through various means. The other top guild on the server though? Fuck those guys and their shit talking GM. I guess it led to the whole server fucking over the GM of that guild on his attempt at getting the Scarab mount though (first to open the gate), so at least we had that going for us.
Daidraco
Avatar of War Slayer
- 10,914
- 11,700
Thats just a surface layer assumption. Has almost nothing to do with denial of content. People racing to a raid NPC to get there first under that rule set. Or a DPS race against a guild and winning with less players, etc. Its competition, rivalry. You knew who people were in the opposing guild. It creates a server community.
As it sits now in most mmo's - you dont know what guild is doing what. Transmogs and cash shop's invalidate any reason to inspect a single individual. Looking at a score board, or a rankings website has almost zero impact on anything you do in the game.
Any game that comes up with a way to constantly pit guilds against each other in the actual moment, in a PVE competition, will have a long term sub base.
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Goonsquad Officer
- 7,744
- 18,139
at the base level the currency in 'open world pvp' is the volume of misery you can inflict on others. if you can inflict no misery, open world pvpers do not seem to enjoy the game.
they say they will do it for the fun, they say that doesn't matter to them, but they claw and screech if you try to remove any misery fonts. i watched a lot of that recently in dune.
open world contested spawns...i don't THINK most people enjoy the misery currency, but i think there are people who do, and very few people can claim and deny key access to things to generate misery or to keep their lead.
I think open world races for things is fine if there's a sleightly slower or broader way to acheive the same thing you could do it fine. so if drussila sathir drops the golden butt plug you need, and that's contested its' rough. but if a dozen smaller mobs on faster spawn times drop bronze butt plugs. and you need to do some extra questing to make it gold, then you can turn it in for hte same quest then you have the contested 'rush', but spare the misery.
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Siliconemelons
Naxxramas 1.0 Raider
- 13,648
- 21,550
FoH: there has to be something special, rare and dangerous to make the game, loot, etc be an adventure and valueable
Also FoH: they suck if they make something rare, or hard it should be available to everyone with ease!
Also FoH: they suck if they make something rare, or hard it should be available to everyone with ease!
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Flobee
Vyemm Raider
- 2,961
- 3,447
On pvp topic for this type of game, I've always genuinely enjoyed the increased risk and pressure of being hunted while grinding. It's not always great, but it does enhance the overall experience. Having a built in tool to deal with player conflict really is nice.
Granted it gets abused and a subset of players will inevitably grief the majority off the server. I always think of it as wolves and sheep. Most of us are sheep in this analogy and to succeed a game needs to properly incentivise and protect the sheep without the wolves getting bored/starving out.
Early EQ did this with anti-PKs just naturally which is my preferred play style and was absolutely critical for server health. Largely gone now though so to create something similar you'd need to incentivise that behavior I think. I guess to abuse the analogy if you've got sheep and wolves, then you need sheepdogs to balance it out.
Regardless looking forward to testing a bit this week, and kinda hope this is the last long test before EA.
Granted it gets abused and a subset of players will inevitably grief the majority off the server. I always think of it as wolves and sheep. Most of us are sheep in this analogy and to succeed a game needs to properly incentivise and protect the sheep without the wolves getting bored/starving out.
Early EQ did this with anti-PKs just naturally which is my preferred play style and was absolutely critical for server health. Largely gone now though so to create something similar you'd need to incentivise that behavior I think. I guess to abuse the analogy if you've got sheep and wolves, then you need sheepdogs to balance it out.
Regardless looking forward to testing a bit this week, and kinda hope this is the last long test before EA.
Quaid
Trump's Staff
- 12,175
- 8,604
It has everything to of with denial of content, and you’re naive for thinking otherwise.
As to your last point, there is zero market evidence of this.
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Burns
Avatar of War Slayer
- 8,673
- 16,762
Patch notes just went up on Discord.
Bit disappointed in no new ore to go hunt, so kinda out of tradeskills to level up without spending days grinding shit to actually level up.
Supposedly there is corroded mithril chain/plate dropping for people over level 50 and though about trying to find people to buy a set of each from. That way I can achieve my goal of fully decked out SK/Shaman duo to sit at a camp for a few hours, maybe getting a level or two, basking in the twinkness before being done.
Bit disappointed in no new ore to go hunt, so kinda out of tradeskills to level up without spending days grinding shit to actually level up.
Supposedly there is corroded mithril chain/plate dropping for people over level 50 and though about trying to find people to buy a set of each from. That way I can achieve my goal of fully decked out SK/Shaman duo to sit at a camp for a few hours, maybe getting a level or two, basking in the twinkness before being done.
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Goonsquad Officer
- 7,744
- 18,139
All of the monks in the game shouldn't be chasing one long spawn that one guy can spitefully kill. Broaden it a bit and you have equilibrium
....except for misery. There's no misery currency there
Kirun
Buzzfeed Editor
- 20,801
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The truth is, the "server identity" people remember wasn't born from healthy PvE competition - it was from necessity. People had to know who others were because there were no systems to facilitate coordination or access back then. You knew who was in the top guild because they were the ones who got the dragons; everyone else just read about it in guild drama posts. That kind of scarcity-driven "social fabric" doesn't translate to modern design, because the market has changed. Players now expect access to at least some meaningful endgame without waiting behind a rotation list or losing to someone with a faster connection.
And this idea that "constant PvE rivalry" guarantees long-term subs ignores a two-decade trend of games that tried exactly that and crashed under the weight of burnout and toxicity. Competition can be great, but it has to exist within a framework that still respects player time and doesn't alienate 90% of the base. Otherwise, you don't create community, you just recreate the same tired server soap opera that everyone claims to miss but nobody actually wants to live through again.
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GuardianX
Perpetually Pessimistic
- 8,006
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For those of ya looking to start this run, I'd really suggest visiting the night market and finding the JC vendor there, use this page to find you some pretty good started accessories:
monstersandmemories.miraheze.org
Most stuff there is in tiers and can range from a few copper to plat. Tiers are typically the same price though, the 2~ silver ones will last ya a while assuming you have shit tier luck like me.
Skill Jewelcrafting - Monsters and Memories Wiki
Most stuff there is in tiers and can range from a few copper to plat. Tiers are typically the same price though, the 2~ silver ones will last ya a while assuming you have shit tier luck like me.
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moonarchia
The Scientific Shitlord
- 27,894
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Daidraco
this is the correct answer. The niche for softcore PVP ala resource competition as an end game is extremely tiny. It is guaranteed that if this is how they plan to run things this game is already DOA.