Monsters and Memories (Project_N) - Old School Indie MMO

Kaines · 2026-02-16T08:24:30-0500

Then you're just a moron if you believe it will take 1-2 years for the majority of players to hit max level in MnM. That is why I'm giving this game 6 months. The poopsockers will do it in a 3-4 weeks. The dedicated casuals will do it in 2-4 months. The dad vibes players will be there in 6 months. Then the game craters under the top-heaviness of the population and the contested nature of everything.

Pharone · 2026-02-16T09:21:22-0500

Man the level of doom sayers in here is intense.

I didn't get a chance to play this weekend, but from what I played in the last playtest, I really liked the game. I sure hope the doom saying in here is just a lot of the usual haters and not actually something to be concerned about in the game. Kinda feels like the same two to three people in here doing a lot of replies making it look like the majority, but I could be wrong.

Gravel · 2026-02-16T09:27:48-0500

That's because the game isn't necessarily bad, but a lot of the design decisions are. And they have really dug their heels in on those bad ideas.

Kithani · 2026-02-16T09:29:01-0500

Hadden said:
I think people are overestimating the amount of poopsockers that are going to be playing this game. Let's say it's like 1 in 20 people and they get 5k subs, you're talking about 250 people spread across a few servers. They get to high level fast with all their shared tips and tricks within the first month or two and dominate the end game and either continue to contest high-level content or stop playing (for good or til theres more content). The other 4750 people (the bulk of their subscribers) are going to take far longer to get to end game. This imagined playerbase that knows everything about the game and is ruining the fun for everyone else feels a bit contrived

I’m not overestimating the # of poopsockers, I’m pointing out that I don’t personally believe you’re going to get 4750 other people to consistently pay $15 a month so that 250 turbonerds can monopolize all the content in 2026. You might get some interest for 3-6 months but I bet it will fall off hard eventually.

Gravel · 2026-02-16T09:51:59-0500

Yeah, the reality is that it's going to be 90% poopsockers after 2 months. This game is never going to get 5k paying subscribers.

GuardianX · 2026-02-16T10:06:06-0500

Ultimately MNM feels so weird.

It's got a lot of premise but feels severely hampered by lack of foundational direction.

Take the "leveling goal" they have implied that solo players should be able to kill, reasonably, blue mobs in order to level and groups should be focusing on white+. Most mobs are so over-tuned in the late levels (50-60) that you either need a group to keep a reasonable pace on blue mobs OR you are of a class that is hyper over-powered. Most people that I see "SOLOING" are doing it with the assistance of a out of group box healing their leveling character OR they are dealing with massive downtime of the mana regen system (because, for some reason...meditate ends at 225).

Many classes are in a state of "we'll fix it in post" with some classes being WILDLY OP and others being passable (some being severely underwhelming) but ALL classes being in a state of "Almost done". Elementalists have a whole line of spells that SHOULD be fleshed out (their blast system). Shaman are the most underwhelming healer class with their HoT healing a baseline of 225 (clerics get a 1600 heal after 6s) when mobs are hitting for 120+x2 every round. When they do "Fixes" they feel more heavy-handed than really "good" like the bard charm "fix" that made bard charm nearly useless if a mob so much as looks at the charmed mob (Ironically...still OP).

Finally you take the elephant in the room, "End Game". You have the stated dream of islands...where you gotta farm shit to build a boat...chart a course...and then go to an island (Non-instanced) where other people are already. So you are gunna constantly be fighting for camps and then the end game is you fight for camps after dumping a time into a process.

The sad part is, it's a decent game compared to 90% of the mmo market right now. You have empty husk asian games that have beautiful worlds and 0 personality. You have OLD games like EQ and WoW that are past their prime but filled with content and autismos fuckign things up. You have unreleased, pie in the sky games that will likely never come out and will die in the process. Then in the midst of all of that you have projects like this and AOA where the scope doesn't seem too monumental and the team seems like they can accomplish the goals they are looking at, the hope is they can actually accomplish what they intend..

moonarchia · 2026-02-16T10:48:55-0500

GuardianX said:
Ultimately MNM feels so weird.

It's got a lot of premise but feels severely hampered by lack of foundational direction.

Take the "leveling goal" they have implied that solo players should be able to kill, reasonably, blue mobs in order to level and groups should be focusing on white+. Most mobs are so over-tuned in the late levels (50-60) that you either need a group to keep a reasonable pace on blue mobs OR you are of a class that is hyper over-powered. Most people that I see "SOLOING" are doing it with the assistance of a out of group box healing their leveling character OR they are dealing with massive downtime of the mana regen system (because, for some reason...meditate ends at 225).

Many classes are in a state of "we'll fix it in post" with some classes being WILDLY OP and others being passable (some being severely underwhelming) but ALL classes being in a state of "Almost done". Elementalists have a whole line of spells that SHOULD be fleshed out (their blast system). Shaman are the most underwhelming healer class with their HoT healing a baseline of 225 (clerics get a 1600 heal after 6s) when mobs are hitting for 120+x2 every round. When they do "Fixes" they feel more heavy-handed than really "good" like the bard charm "fix" that made bard charm nearly useless if a mob so much as looks at the charmed mob (Ironically...still OP).

Finally you take the elephant in the room, "End Game". You have the stated dream of islands...where you gotta farm shit to build a boat...chart a course...and then go to an island (Non-instanced) where other people are already. So you are gunna constantly be fighting for camps and then the end game is you fight for camps after dumping a time into a process.

The sad part is, it's a decent game compared to 90% of the mmo market right now. You have empty husk asian games that have beautiful worlds and 0 personality. You have OLD games like EQ and WoW that are past their prime but filled with content and autismos fuckign things up. You have unreleased, pie in the sky games that will likely never come out and will die in the process. Then in the midst of all of that you have projects like this and AOA where the scope doesn't seem too monumental and the team seems like they can accomplish the goals they are looking at, the hope is they can actually accomplish what they intend..

It's only weird because you know how it will play out, but wish it wouldn't. Their absolute refusal to instance anything means they are DOA. Fix that one thing and the rest would be manageable. People aren't going to waste time in a game that revolves around competing for camps. End game is the only game that matters, and once more than a handful of people get there, that's game over without instancing. Trying to monetize before release is always a bad sign as well. That is the point where it goes from passion project to paid product, and dev resources have to move into maintenance mode. That is going to be massively amplified by trying to make Early Alpha a monthly sub.

Gravel · 2026-02-16T10:56:47-0500

It's funny, because he brings up meditate, and that's one of the best examples of clinging onto a system from 25 years ago without really considering why.

Having abysmal mana rates means your group is sitting around constantly doing nothing. This works in 1999 because what are you going to do instead? You're not alt-tabbing out because your PC can't handle it, and your 14k modem probably doesn't have the bandwidth to run the game and surf the internet anyway (ignoring also that if you wanted to pull up a webpage, it's going to take a 30-60 seconds anyways just to load images).

The people simping for the game will cry out about how nice it is to slow the pace of the game. The reality, one that even those people have admitted, is it just means you do shit on a 2nd monitor, or fuck off on your phone. Hell, many people even talked about how they're doing that during pulls, because all you really need to do is press 3 hotkeys anyway. A slow paced MMO just leads to people doing other things in that downtime, not engaging with the game. The developers are just copy pasting ideas from a different era, but not really thinking about the circumstances that existed that either required or were built around it.

Break · 2026-02-16T12:12:17-0500

EQ classic the APS were ridiculously low, but it allowed for multi-tasking IRL which was nice, something which some people used to seamlessly 2-3 box with fairly high efficiency with basic tools. WoW took the APS to the extreme, the game is one giant fidget spinner making it basically impossible to 2 box with high efficiency without special tools. Hopefully they strike a balance there, I always liked being able to get up now and again and walk across the house and back and not get penalized for it and it's one reason I can't stand playing WoW for long.

Quaid · 2026-02-16T12:39:48-0500

Pharone said:
Man the level of doom sayers in here is intense.

I didn't get a chance to play this weekend, but from what I played in the last playtest, I really liked the game. I sure hope the doom saying in here is just a lot of the usual haters and not actually something to be concerned about in the game. Kinda feels like the same two to three people in here doing a lot of replies making it look like the majority, but I could be wrong.

Without the ‘doomsayers’ there would be 3-4 posts in this thread a month.

All the people with zero concerns about this game are in their heavily moderated Discord circle jerk, where they get to discuss how long elf ears should be rather than actual gameplay matters.

Kirun · 2026-02-16T13:39:26-0500

Pasteton said:
??

I have hit max level in -
Black desert,

There is no max level in Black Desert.

You wouldn't happen to be a liar, would you sir?

Pharone · 2026-02-16T13:41:50-0500

Quaid said:
Without the ‘doomsayers’ there would be 3-4 posts in this thread a month.

All the people with zero concerns about this game are in their heavily moderated Discord circle jerk, where they get to discuss how long elf ears should be rather than actual gameplay matters.

You've mentioned before that their current design is not "fun". I argue that FUN is a highly subjective term. It's not black and white like a few of you in this thread try to make it sound.

Just because you only find the end-game with your set of friends fun does not mean that anything other than that is inherently NOT fun. It's just NOT fun to you.

Let them focus on the core of the game now. They can get to the instancing, raiding, and other cool shit AFTER the initial game is out there. Otherwise, we end up with yet another fucking over promised, under delivered pile of shit that the industry is so used to putting out.

Quaid · 2026-02-16T14:41:07-0500

Pharone said:
You've mentioned before that their current design is not "fun". I argue that FUN is a highly subjective term. It's not black and white like a few of you in this thread try to make it sound.

Just because you only find the end-game with your set of friends fun does not mean that anything other than that is inherently NOT fun. It's just NOT fun to you.

Let them focus on the core of the game now. They can get to the instancing, raiding, and other cool shit AFTER the initial game is out there. Otherwise, we end up with yet another fucking over promised, under delivered pile of shit that the industry is so used to putting out.

Hatorade · 2026-02-16T14:54:25-0500

Quaid said:
Without the ‘doomsayers’ there would be 3-4 posts in this thread a month.

All the people with zero concerns about this game are in their heavily moderated Discord circle jerk, where they get to discuss how long elf ears should be rather than actual gameplay matters.

I have concerns I just don’t argue with people on these boards, it is a “circle jerk” of rehashed statements over and over.
Be more like spear.

Kirun · 2026-02-16T14:54:32-0500

Pharone said:
You've mentioned before that their current design is not "fun". I argue that FUN is a highly subjective term. It's not black and white like a few of you in this thread try to make it sound.

Just because you only find the end-game with your set of friends fun does not mean that anything other than that is inherently NOT fun. It's just NOT fun to you.

Let them focus on the core of the game now. They can get to the instancing, raiding, and other cool shit AFTER the initial game is out there. Otherwise, we end up with yet another fucking over promised, under delivered pile of shit that the industry is so used to putting out.

Of course "fun" is subjective. No one's arguing it's a math equation. But that doesn't mean all design choices are equally defensible or immune from criticism just because someone somewhere enjoys them.

When people say "this isn't fun," they're usually not claiming divine authority over taste. They're reacting to pacing, friction, feedback loops, downtime, repetition, etc. - things that absolutely can be analyzed. If a system creates long stretches of inactivity, forces busywork that doesn't meaningfully change decision-making, or punishes experimentation with excessive time loss, it's reasonable to question whether that design is pulling its weight. We're not declaring an objective truth, we're evaluating mechanics.

And the "they can add the cool stuff later" argument gets real unsteady, because MMOs live and die on first impressions. Early population density shapes social dynamics. Content cadence shapes retention. If the initial experience is thin, slow, or overly reliant on nostalgia doing the heavy lifting, you don't get a clean slate six months later. You get a smaller, hardened player base and a reputation that calcifies. We've seen this play out repeatedly across the genre. There's also a difference between "don't overpromise" and "ship a skeleton and hope to flesh it out later." Focusing on the core is smart. But if the core loop isn't broadly compelling beyond a very narrow slice of players, layering raids and instancing on top later won't fix that foundation.

Nobody is demanding feature bloat on day one. The pushback is about whether the foundational design - progression speed, downtime philosophy, social dependency, lack of systemic modernization, etc. actually holds up in 2026 without leaning entirely on nostalgia and goodwill. Saying "fun is subjective" doesn't end the conversation. It just moves it to: fun for who, under what conditions, and for how long? In an MMO, that matters - because you don't just need something to be fun for a handful of true believers. You need it to sustain a living ecosystem.

Pharone · 2026-02-16T15:18:34-0500

Quaid said:

Exactly what I figured your response would be because I didn't agree with you.

Kirun said:
Of course "fun" is subjective. No one's arguing it's a math equation. But that doesn't mean all design choices are equally defensible or immune from criticism just because someone somewhere enjoys them.

When people say "this isn't fun," they're usually not claiming divine authority over taste. They're reacting to pacing, friction, feedback loops, downtime, repetition, etc. - things that absolutely can be analyzed. If a system creates long stretches of inactivity, forces busywork that doesn't meaningfully change decision-making, or punishes experimentation with excessive time loss, it's reasonable to question whether that design is pulling its weight. We're not declaring an objective truth, we're evaluating mechanics.

And the "they can add the cool stuff later" argument gets real unsteady, because MMOs live and die on first impressions. Early population density shapes social dynamics. Content cadence shapes retention. If the initial experience is thin, slow, or overly reliant on nostalgia doing the heavy lifting, you don't get a clean slate six months later. You get a smaller, hardened player base and a reputation that calcifies. We've seen this play out repeatedly across the genre. There's also a difference between "don't overpromise" and "ship a skeleton and hope to flesh it out later." Focusing on the core is smart. But if the core loop isn't broadly compelling beyond a very narrow slice of players, layering raids and instancing on top later won't fix that foundation.

Nobody is demanding feature bloat on day one. The pushback is about whether the foundational design - progression speed, downtime philosophy, social dependency, lack of systemic modernization, etc. actually holds up in 2026 without leaning entirely on nostalgia and goodwill. Saying "fun is subjective" doesn't end the conversation. It just moves it to: fun for who, under what conditions, and for how long? In an MMO, that matters - because you don't just need something to be fun for a handful of true believers. You need it to sustain a living ecosystem.

You see, I can understand and debate with you because you actually try to argue the points.

There are others here that are more along the lines of "YOU SUCK DICK BECAUSE YOU DONT AGREE WITH ME". Ahem... Talking about you

Quaid .

I totally get that first impressions are key. The thing is that I think their first impressions are spot on when it comes to the core design of the game. They pretty much nailed the genre they are going after. To me, having raid content or end-game content so to speak, is not a core design. It's an additive. I look at it the same way that Everquest handled raiding... ala there wasn't any until they added it later. I mean correct me if I am wrong here, but Nagafen and Vox did not exist day one in EQ. They were added later.

Normally, I would be on the bandwagon of "they need to tell us their design goals ahead of time", but we have been bitten by the over reaching of shit MMORPGs so much over the past couple decades (Ashes of Creation anyone?) that I just don't want to see them do that as well. We all know they will HAVE to have an end-game for MnM. There's no way the game can exist for very long with out some form of end game. But... I am saying why force them to define that right now rather than spending their time fleshing out the core design and then build on top of that core design when they get to their first end game expansion content.

Quaid · 2026-02-16T15:42:55-0500

Pharone said:
I mean correct me if I am wrong here, but Nagafen and Vox did not exist day one in EQ. They were added later.

Yes - you are wrong. Nagafen, Vox, and Phinny were raid targets available on day one. (March 1999) Afterlife had downed both dragons by May.

Fear was Added in July '99, Hate in November '99, Sky in January 2000. Everquest had 3 full raid zones and 3 World-targets within its first 9 months.

Velious launched 19 months after EverQuest's inital release in December 2000, at which point raid targets numbered in the dozens.

Kaines · 2026-02-16T16:02:18-0500

Pharone said:
Exactly what I figured your response would be because I didn't agree with you.

You see, I can understand and debate with you because you actually try to argue the points.

There are others here that are more along the lines of "YOU SUCK DICK BECAUSE YOU DONT AGREE WITH ME". Ahem... Talking about you Quaid .

I totally get that first impressions are key. The thing is that I think their first impressions are spot on when it comes to the core design of the game. They pretty much nailed the genre they are going after. To me, having raid content or end-game content so to speak, is not a core design. It's an additive. I look at it the same way that Everquest handled raiding... ala there wasn't any until they added it later. I mean correct me if I am wrong here, but Nagafen and Vox did not exist day one in EQ. They were added later.

Normally, I would be on the bandwagon of "they need to tell us their design goals ahead of time", but we have been bitten by the over reaching of shit MMORPGs so much over the past couple decades (Ashes of Creation anyone?) that I just don't want to see them do that as well. We all know they will HAVE to have an end-game for MnM. There's no way the game can exist for very long with out some form of end game. But... I am saying why force them to define that right now rather than spending their time fleshing out the core design and then build on top of that core design when they get to their first end game expansion content.

Instances and phasing ARE core designs. If those are just "tacked on later" you get the pile of trash that was release Plane of Time.

If that is "fun" for you, then you are a very small minority of gamer that does not have the numbers to sustain a commercially viable product.

moonarchia · 2026-02-16T16:35:20-0500

Pharone said:
Exactly what I figured your response would be because I didn't agree with you.

You see, I can understand and debate with you because you actually try to argue the points.

There are others here that are more along the lines of "YOU SUCK DICK BECAUSE YOU DONT AGREE WITH ME". Ahem... Talking about you Quaid .

I totally get that first impressions are key. The thing is that I think their first impressions are spot on when it comes to the core design of the game. They pretty much nailed the genre they are going after. To me, having raid content or end-game content so to speak, is not a core design. It's an additive. I look at it the same way that Everquest handled raiding... ala there wasn't any until they added it later. I mean correct me if I am wrong here, but Nagafen and Vox did not exist day one in EQ. They were added later.

Normally, I would be on the bandwagon of "they need to tell us their design goals ahead of time", but we have been bitten by the over reaching of shit MMORPGs so much over the past couple decades (Ashes of Creation anyone?) that I just don't want to see them do that as well. We all know they will HAVE to have an end-game for MnM. There's no way the game can exist for very long with out some form of end game. But... I am saying why force them to define that right now rather than spending their time fleshing out the core design and then build on top of that core design when they get to their first end game expansion content.

Instancing is currently the most feasible way to prevent soft PVP ie spawn camping. It is a core element of how the end game functions, or won't in this case. Forcing people to compete for camps and rare spawns will absolutely tank your game. So what are they planning to do to prevent this?

Quaid · 2026-02-16T16:42:21-0500

Pharone said:
Exactly what I figured your response would be because I didn't agree with you.

There are others here that are more along the lines of "YOU SUCK DICK BECAUSE YOU DONT AGREE WITH ME". Ahem... Talking about you Quaid .

You parachute in here and refer to me as a 'hater' and paint me as some sort of troll to invalidate my opinion without any argument at all, just a half-assed ad hominem. Then you expect me to be perfectly civil and not defend myself against your dogshit straw man arguments with a simple .gif?

Get a grip Nancy. I think they're discussing what racial cooking recipes Deep Elves should have in the official Discord. You'll be more comfortable there.

Monsters and Memories (Project_N) - Old School Indie MMO

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