fanaskin
Well known agitator
- 58,570
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ok try to think of the way I mean it, but in wow people do try to out dps the mechanics and just sit in shit so yeah you can zerg in wow
Monsters and Memories (Project_N) - Old School Indie MMO
- Thread starter Flobee
- Start date
ok try to think of the way I mean it, but in wow people do try to out dps the mechanics and just sit in shit so yeah you can zerg in wow
Burns
Naxxramas 1.0 Raider
- 9,317
- 18,087
I've not heard of raid finder being referred to as zerging before and it doesn't make much sense in relation to how the term was originally used.
I assumed you meant zerging outdoor, non-instanced bosses once they instituted personal loot in Legion; where everyone that hits the boss gets their own personal chance at an item. Which lead to a bunch of non-grouped people running up and tagging the bosses. Early in the xpacs, this sometime lead to a large portion of people dying and running back multiple times.
The other use of zerging a raid in early WoW was rezzing at the graveyard and running back as the people die, over and over while at least one person stays alive to keep it tapped (for something like Green Dragons).
Edit:
Also not heard this as being considered zerging. Instead it's just plain "out gearing" the fight.
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Burns
Naxxramas 1.0 Raider
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If you use instancing you are obligated to implement raid finder story difficulty like
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Flobee
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
- 3,383
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You're misinterpreting.
The idea is I support, as a general rule, the attempt to evolve from early MMO design in a way that is different than how WoW did it because, as we've all whinged about for years, WoW fundamentally shifted MMO design in a way that made it worse in a number of ways. Not in every way, WoW is objectively a better game, but it made specific design choices I want to see challenged. WoW's success made it impossible for innovation in a lot of ways.
Instancing is a specific area I'm interested to see changed. Another is the idea of building a giant world initially, and instead of expanding it with expansions, just filling and shifting it. There are plenty of legitimate criticisms to the game, but I maintain that their attempt to innovate in this space isn't one of them. They can always give up and instance. That's not going to be particularly difficult, and I think they'd be well served to use instancing in some circumstances, but I want to see a fresh approach.
Kithani
Vyemm Raider
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- 3,551
I’m not misinterpreting, your opinion is just dumb.
Instancing raids was absolutely an improvement on the genre with zero downside UNLESS you are a loser neckbeard tha wants to feel “special” by monopolizing raid content. If MnM can come up with a better solution then more power to them but literally all signs point to a “nope” in that regard
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Flobee
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
- 3,383
- 3,997
Instancing was absolutely an improvement. My point is that it's not the only possible improvement and if like to see that explored.
GuardianX
Perpetually Pessimistic
- 8,247
- 21,460
In one of the most
The wild part is...EQ taught us you can do both with DZ's and open world of the same location and still give worth to poop-sockers.
On the other foot they got their TOS for "AUTOMATION" cracking down on peoples:
*CHECKS NOTES*
Keyboard and mouse macros.
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Trent if you read this, come on man thats a dumb as hell rule, push back on it. Push for "Active engagement" macros being okay and "Passive Play" macros being banned.
The game is filled with tedium and expecting people to eat a dick on 25 years of hardware improvements on the KB / mouse side is asinine when no other game (that I'm aware of) bans for KB / M macros.
The wild part is...EQ taught us you can do both with DZ's and open world of the same location and still give worth to poop-sockers.
On the other foot they got their TOS for "AUTOMATION" cracking down on peoples:
*CHECKS NOTES*
Keyboard and mouse macros.
---
Trent if you read this, come on man thats a dumb as hell rule, push back on it. Push for "Active engagement" macros being okay and "Passive Play" macros being banned.
The game is filled with tedium and expecting people to eat a dick on 25 years of hardware improvements on the KB / mouse side is asinine when no other game (that I'm aware of) bans for KB / M macros.
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Flobee
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
- 3,383
- 3,997
Probably a guy who understands what problems it was solving and the pros and cons of implementation huh?
Kithani
Vyemm Raider
- 2,472
- 3,551
Sean is the greatest MMO dev in the history of the genre and he certainly understands every aspect of good game design definitely would never make a single bad decision ever that’s why this game is perfect and needs no changes but also any change they do make just causes it to be even more perfecter
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moonarchia
The Scientific Shitlord
- 31,712
- 62,679
Flobee
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
- 3,383
- 3,997
I hereby reward you with your tunic of White Squireship*. You're well in your way to becoming one of the Fallen... Err... The Memorable I guess.
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Has anyone pointed out the irony of all this No Instancing Ever in MnM when Shawn was literally the guy who introduced instancing to EQ?
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Kithani
Vyemm Raider
- 2,472
- 3,551
Bro he has learned from his errors and that is how he is making the perfect game do you not even read the Discord bro
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Pasteton
Vyemm Raider
- 3,321
- 2,498
Most people signing up to play this don’t want instancing. Shawn is not exactly getting pushback for this decision on the forums . They’ll have to be forced into it by showing how shitty the lack of it is to these people. Some of us are doing this important work in game. It’s very easy to demonstrate currently given the extreme lack of content. Shawn seems convinced he has alternate solutions.
Just assuming there is no other option, and providing shitty analogies, is retarded confidence. Also it assumes everyone thinks like you and that nothing is lost from doing it. Wrong on every front.
The past few weeks of aggravation have been also a lot of entertainment, social interaction, drama, and angst that have kept many of us playing, even if losing spawns, rather than quit out of boredom. We lose spawns but the ones we get we are pumped for. Maybe you don’t see the fun in that but lots of us do.
If instances and we just farming the same 3 things for a hour once a week , I would have quit or mostly quit, and my friends, and a buncha others. Game as it is pisses many off but feels more alive and interactive. Most of the angry fucks keep playing. I’ve been an angry fuck too but here I am. Makes me hope they find a solution other than instancing.
The current situation is untenable, because unlike some of the retards in here, I understand that not everyone is like me and people I play with, and they’d rather not engage with systems that give this much friction. I’d even argue that some of the idiots who think they don’t want instancing, are too retarded to realize they actually won’t enjoy a game without it. Even people like me might enjoy other options more as well, but defaulting to instancing would be disappointing.
Just assuming there is no other option, and providing shitty analogies, is retarded confidence. Also it assumes everyone thinks like you and that nothing is lost from doing it. Wrong on every front.
The past few weeks of aggravation have been also a lot of entertainment, social interaction, drama, and angst that have kept many of us playing, even if losing spawns, rather than quit out of boredom. We lose spawns but the ones we get we are pumped for. Maybe you don’t see the fun in that but lots of us do.
If instances and we just farming the same 3 things for a hour once a week , I would have quit or mostly quit, and my friends, and a buncha others. Game as it is pisses many off but feels more alive and interactive. Most of the angry fucks keep playing. I’ve been an angry fuck too but here I am. Makes me hope they find a solution other than instancing.
The current situation is untenable, because unlike some of the retards in here, I understand that not everyone is like me and people I play with, and they’d rather not engage with systems that give this much friction. I’d even argue that some of the idiots who think they don’t want instancing, are too retarded to realize they actually won’t enjoy a game without it. Even people like me might enjoy other options more as well, but defaulting to instancing would be disappointing.
Quaid
Trump's Staff
- 12,672
- 7,318
We've been saying it for years at this point. Instanced raid zones, but also contested overworld individual targets - and give the contested targets entirely tradeable loot. See: WoW Ahn Qiraj era with Azuregos, Kazzak, and the Emerald Dragons.
It's not hard. They do not need some hyper innovative solution to this very simple problem.
Yeah, instancing will marginally undermine the conceit of the shared world. OK. But is that hill really worth dying on?
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Kithani
Vyemm Raider
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moonarchia
The Scientific Shitlord
- 31,712
- 62,679
Yeah, Shawn is getting high on his own supply. That never ends well.Peak delusion and quite literally
Raids should be instanced and on a lockout. 3 days, a week, whatever. Quakes cause all raids to unlock but with heroic difficulty for 1 hour. First heroic kill each cycle gets double loot. Non- poopsockers can take their time and the try hard will have something to chase.