Monsters and Memories (Project_N) - Old School Indie MMO

Noodleface said:

The map tool can help! Or it can't! I actually have no idea lol

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Will check it out tonight, seems to be a game changer but had no time to mess with it yet.

vegetoeeVegetoee said:

I agree. The combat does not match the content. We talked about this a year ago. It's very wow and if they aren't careful it could head into FFIV territory.
They really should have waited to release EA after they had more starting areas in and a better grasp of TTK and grouping. Also, the classes are just very bland. They really need to look at them ASAP. I think maybe a few are passable, but a lot of them are so dull and boring.

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I feel they have very different expectations, views, and even "The Vision (tm)" is divergent - perhaps the way this was built is having its issued finally seen more so than not.

Lets take BM vs WB - in WB there is plenty to do as a solo or group - the design is very well done and mob placement is very much like EQ in guk, CT etc. BM on the other-hand is very much designed like a WoW dund, with rooms that are like 4-6 mobs linked etc. wondering mobs that make those pulls +1 or if in a bad spot, get another group of 3-4 mobs etc. so its a very forced group situation and meant for you to just burn through it with force, not planning.

This is just a small example. TE is like Charok was, its a bad guy city zone so its super unfriendly to solo.. not /everything/ has to be a good place for soloing - but when you can make places that are good for both, and well designed.. and not? it just seems a little annoying on the how things are made side of things.

Classes... they need to do what they move away from and what they moved toward at the same time - they want to be special snowflakes in a game that is mean to be very tropy and of yesteryear...that does not mix...not for ALL the classes.. they seem to get butt hurt over /certain/ feedback - is that the type of feedback of certain things? or from certain people?

Like "Knights (pal/sk) just feel like warrior + celric/necro!" OMG REMAKE THE CLASSES instead of "THATS WHAT THOSE CLASSES ARE!!!"

I unsubbed for the time being. I can't find the time and energy for it right now between work and being an old fuck.

I do hope it takes off and find a stable audience. Might check back later this year when work calms down.

Medallions, coin nerf and lack of camps drove me off as well, that was just too much friction. I didn't mind the difficult economy but the coin nerf just made it more stressful than fun.

Noodleface said:

The map tool can help! Or it can't! I actually have no idea lol

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Map tool?

I hate the coin nerf, it’s my biggest gripe.

But I’m still having a ton of fun, so I’ll play until it isn’t fun anymore.

Sean is streaming right now. I do give him props for continuing to do these streams. They aren't easy streams to do.

Kithani said:

“Light years better than pantheon” doesn’t exactly sound like a ringing endorsement lol

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Flobee said:

I'd second the main issue being class design. I'm happy with the world, economy, friction etc. I was never going to be able to no-life or even consistently group so my expectations there were low. For me though a big draw to these games is having solid cohesive class identity and they absolutely nuked that like 2 months before EA release. Instead of fixing what they had they basically hit reset... Then half way through the reworks they seemingly realized it wasn't a great idea and some of the better reworks likes Ranger or SK (basically did nothing) are simply reflavoring the existing kit with minimal changes.

They need to go back and do it again for a bunch of classes and.... To be frank approach it differently. Combine that with stuff like poorly balanced/thought out mechanics (% weapon ratio on skills is, IMO, pants-on-head if you fully normalize and ignore delay), too much randomness of abilities (3 damage ability hits, etc), and it seems to me balancing TTK backwards. Make the combat feel -good- damage wise, abilities shit harder than autos etc, then balance TTK off that.

None of that was doomer criticism. All of it is completely fixable with some time now that they're getting firehose feedback from paying customers. Game is good, content is very good, classes aren't in a good place and they know it.

Releasing Trolls is the real EA launch anyway.

Edit: I also suspect just a numbers pass could make some classes feel a LOT better so it might not even be design in some cases

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Yeahhh classes went from being good to ok, to omfg what is this?

Hekotat said:

Medallions, coin nerf and lack of camps drove me off as well, that was just too much friction. I didn't mind the difficult economy but the coin nerf just made it more stressful than fun.

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IMO there are enough camps to go around, but no one wants to push in further than the edges of camps/dungeons, thus things get quite crowded.

Muurloen said:

IMO there are enough camps to go around, but no one wants to push in further than the edges of camps/dungeons, thus things get quite crowded.

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I agree but that is because people aren't good. Competent groups are typically statics/guild grps. The average PUG is just going off where everyone else is and won't even think of doing deeper into the orc mines of voz for example.

Muurloen said:

IMO there are enough camps to go around, but no one wants to push in further than the edges of camps/dungeons, thus things get quite crowded.

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SGS/SD had zero availability and I was just about to get out of the zone(s).

It was mentioned on the stream today that Twitch streamer moonmoon has been playing the game off stream. That surprised me before he didn't like EQ because it had too much zoning.

vegetoeeVegetoee said:

No, your criticism was not valid.

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Hmm...ok...

vegetoeeVegetoee said:

The shine is wearing off because they took forever to redesign classes and they are shit, along with a few other things.

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Hekotat said:

Medallions, coin nerf and lack of camps drove me off as well, that was just too much friction. I didn't mind the difficult economy but the coin nerf just made it more stressful than fun.

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vegetoeeVegetoee said:

The average PUG is just going off where everyone else is and won't even think of doing deeper into the orc mines of voz for example.

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Kirun said:

Hmm...ok...

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Can't say the game is a flop when the subs keep growing. It being EA means they can improve on t hings.

vegetoeeVegetoee said:

Can't say the game is a flop when the subs keep growing. It being EA means they can improve on t hings.

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Most people are not complaining about the current status as-is in hopes of change-- but have been with the game since invite only pre-pre-alpha and are "racist pattern recognition experts" and can see how things have been going, changes made etc. and can project.

What most of us are saying is "they need to change things in a better way / different methodology" than they have shown to have done so in the past.

They made a big deal about the class deep dives and most of them flopped.

None of their changes "Made the player feel MORE like a XYZ ---CLASS FANTASY!!!!---" who the heck coined that term needs to be sent to Seattle or some other liberal land to live among the nutballs.

The SK and Pally changes were the biggest offenders.

I did Pally in beta, and I felt /like a pally/ before the change.. after, honestly... a cleric with less healing... they took away the unique pet, they gave us a random super proc...that...clerics also get...and..and...some sanctification auras that are practically useless...

SK - they have a bold vision for, a flawed vision, a vision that was really a new class or BEASTMASTER... ahem... then they took, I assume the community pushback / feedback and then made the current SK that is... okay ? but...with... less utility... but like pally "THERE IS A GROUP AURA BUFF SO NOW GROUPS WANT A KNIGHT!" -- that...was... NEVER a problem...wtf? you strip solo utility and give a mostly give or take group passive buff.

I cant speak on many others... but the knights they really bungled and look to have to real interest in fixing..

Amycus said:

I hate the coin nerf, it’s my biggest gripe.

But I’m still having a ton of fun, so I’ll play until it isn’t fun anymore.

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Buff timer nerf was mine. As an Enc...just fucking why? Again, tedium is not friction. Its just tedium.

Araxen said:

Sean is streaming right now. I do give him props for continuing to do these streams. They aren't easy streams to do.

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He asked where people heard about this game and someone said Fires of Heaven and his response was, "wow surprised you are actually playing".

Clearly the devs have a vendetta against this place, nice to see where everyone's allegiances lie!

Falstaff said:

He asked where people heard about this game and someone said Fires of Heaven and his response was, "wow surprised you are actually playing".

Clearly the devs have a vendetta against this place, nice to see where everyone's allegiances lie!

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There’s been like 7-8 people consistently vocally critical about this game here, outnumbered at minimum 4:1 ratio by people almost totally uncritical. Of those 7-8 it might be 3 guys who have given near zero praise for the game.

Just shows how fucking fragile the egos involved are.