MTG thread

Just because there are some number of people, somewhere in the world, playing a format does not mean it's 'healthy'. Is Alice (alliances-ice age) sealed a healthy format? A year ago a few friends ran an 8 man tournament with some old sealed product they bought of that format, so therefore it's still an alive and kicking format according to your logic.

There is like one vintage tournament a year that is on the scale of the standard tournaments being hosted EVERY weekend.
There's well over 50,000 standard players for every one vintage player. There are probably at least 1,000 legacy players for every vintage player.
Vintage is a dead format, with a few pocket niche areas in the world that can reliably put together a weekly FNM level tournament for it.
The prices of vintage cards continue to rise due to scarcity and their collectible status. Vintage tournament results do not make vintage cards rise/fall like they do in legacy/modern/standard because the scarcity is the main factor in their rising prices. As long as magic continues to grow, the cards that are the rarest will continue to go up in price overall, regardless of the 'health' of the formats.

There was about 5-6 guys in my area that could put together any vintage deck they wanted a few years ago. Almost all of them have since sold off their power and simply play legacy events instead now. Their reasoning being 'no one playing vintage'. Granted, that's just my area, but since you keep using the fact that your area runs a weekly vintage tournament as evidence that the format is healthy, I think it's just as relevant.

Yes, someone will still play vintage and legacy no matter what. In 40 years, Magic could be completely dead, WotC out of business and not making new cards, and there will still be a gaming group that keeps their old cards and plays kitchen top vintage among themselves. It will not mean Magic is still alive and kicking.

Legacy's prices will continue to rise as long as magic's player base continues to grow. No matter how expensive the format, there will be some number of magic players with enough disposable income and patience to acquire the cards. How many people play it, and how many supported tournaments are able to be run will determine how 'healthy' the format is. If the cost becomes close to vintage prices, making the barrier to entry too high for most players, there will be less and less legacy tournaments. The prices will taper off and remain stagnant instead.

Zaide_sl said:

Guys it's okay. They gained one new possible vintage player last year who will be able to actually buy worthwhile cards in just a few years!

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I am a new vintage player, if you want to get technical about it. I sold all my shit years ago and only reacquired it in the last 10 months or so. I posted a pretty detailed explanation of how I did it on a budget.

We get new legacy people every week, and our local quarterly is consistently larger than any PPTQ in the state. It's not quite the same as regionals, but it's getting there.

enzie_sl said:

There was about 5-6 guys in my area that could put together any vintage deck they wanted a few years ago. Almost all of them have since sold off their power and simply play legacy events instead now. Their reasoning being 'no one playing vintage'. Granted, that's just my area, but since you keep using the fact that your area runs a weekly vintage tournament as evidence that the format is healthy, I think it's just as relevant.

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Not per week, but monthly we do. No one wants to play more often than that; it's too hard to schedule for what is admittedly a niche crowd. I've never denied that at all. It's absolutely a subset of a subset of a subset of Magic players.

Thing is, there's probably about as much support for vintage now as there was the entire game back when those same cards were printed. Add in the web-based communities like TMD and The Source, and you've got a pretty well connected group of enthusiasts. It's all the same hobby, just with different people focused in different areas.

Since this all started by talking about reserved shit anyway... I'm as annoyed as anyone else about price increases. I don't get excited about "earning" money on cards. I have never sold a thing on eBay, and I never plan to try and be a storefront. Those guys that sit at trade tables and demand 50% premiums for their cards because they're a "store" annoy the shit out of me. I'm pretty sure by the time I finish off my set of vintage lands, they'll end up costing me a lot more than they do right now. But, I don't play Magic as an investment, and I don't do this to make money. It's my hobby, and if it wasn't then I'd be spending money on something else. Hell, I'm pretty sure I have as much spent on old homebrewing gear I haven't used since I got married as I've spent on Magic in the last year, power included.

What really burns my ass is Legacy can be a pretty fun format that tons, if not nearly all, of newer players will never get to mess around in based purely on the economics of it. It's only going to get worse going forward as things get more and more scarce, until we hit that breaking point that counterfeiting really becomes economically viable and the confidence of the market gets eroded by 99% quality duals from China or where ever.

Heylel_sl said:

I am a new vintage player, if you want to get technical about it. I sold all my shit years ago and only reacquired it in the last 10 months or so. I posted a pretty detailed explanation of how I did it on a budget.

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You work a part time job of which the income goes entirely towards Magic the Gathering.

I mean I recently got into legacy and earlier this year I finished my P9 but I don't know a place within an hour of me where I could actually play vintage.

I'm building a 93/94 cube that my friends and I play with though and it's been a blast so far.

I live near one of the busiest mtg locations in the UK, they have legacy once a month with the occasional tournament, modern twice a month plus tournaments, no vintage. Never seen power in person even though we have some alpha nerds here.

I'm going to guess that any vintage there is will be mostly in the US.

On another topic, the block story on the MTG website was awesome today. Nahiri vs Sorin with one of them getting fucked up.

Arbitrary_sl said:

You work a part time job of which the income goes entirely towards Magic the Gathering.

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I spend about one Saturday a month running events for other players, or the occasional weekend at a GP within driving distance that I would be at anyway. It's hardly a job, and the bulk of time put I not it is uncompensated. I just don't feel bad raking the couple hundred in credit and buying something nice with it, especially when a cash payout would be 25% less.

I do actually work a second job that isn't judging, and not a penny of it goes into magic. I don't even see it hit my bank account, it goes straight to savings.

Zaide_sl said:

I mean I recently got into legacy and earlier this year I finished my P9 but I don't know a place within an hour of me where I could actually play vintage.

I'm building a 93/94 cube that my friends and I play with though and it's been a blast so far.

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If you're within a drive of Atlanta, come to the quarterly sometime. This month top prize is a Ruby. 2nd is a Moat or Chain, 3/4 get blue duals, 5-8 get Forces. Last month we had 70 players.

This can only lead amazing places

First pharma bro buys the Wu-tang album and now he's buying black lotuses. We share similar interests. FeelsBadMan.

If anything will cause the Vintage/Legacy market to fail, its that fuckhead. Rofl.

The reddit post where they worked up Craig Berry, The Harbinger and Martin Shkreli, the Markets Torn is A+ internet content.

I'm ready for the bubble to burst. It's all notional value to me anyway, so fuck it.

We're definitely going weird places now.

The similarities to bitcoin are a little alarming.