Neverwinter: PC

Treesong

Bronze Knight of the Realm
362
29
Graphics/smoothness of Rift meets Reckoning (actiony combat) meets D&D (choose abilities on hotbar, feats) meets Neverwinter atmosphere meets WoW (Lots of Quests, markers, shiny trail leads you to where you need to go).

There are some twists that make it more interesting, like Invocation (praying to your God every hour) that give you coins that you can spend(umm, like a flying unicorn?) and off course the Foundry. There are already hundreds of player-made quests with a very extensive search and review tool, which will become a huge part of the game imo. You pick these up through messageboards in Inns or by talking to barmaids and such (rumor-option). There seems to be a lot of lore and story (you pick a Deity and birthcity/background at creation, there's a lot of choices), and this will be multiplied by playermade content. Some of the Foundry stuff is already better written then the official stuff imo. You can even pay Astral Diamonds to an author, if you liked his stuff.

City looks very atmospheric, lots of Inns that look good. I definately get the "High Fantasy" vibe a lot more then when I play Rift. Combination of open world and instancing; when you enter a house or dungeon it is instanced but also lots of fighting outdoors, non instanced. Loot, itemization: definately pinata-style (lots and lots, +gooder) but still rather satisfying in a way.

Partial autoloot.

Overall I feel that the game has a pretty high value when it comes to UI, gamesystems and Combat. Rather unlike Cryptic tbh. The depth and longevity of this MMO will mostly depend on good player-made stuff, but the tools for that are definately there. For the rest it is a typical smooth and easy to get into MMO, with a good chance of boredom around the corner.
 

Muligan

Trakanon Raider
3,213
893
No one gives a flying fuck what any of those morons over at mmowhores.com has to say about anything. The only thing that site is good for is the occasional beta key give-away.
Yeah.... just wasn't sure why the promotion all of sudden? I had seen bits and pieces and then all of a sudden MMORPG and a few other sites began tweeting all day and posting articles.
 

Caliane

Avatar of War Slayer
14,558
10,046
Graphics/smoothness of Rift meets Reckoning (actiony combat) meets D&D (choose abilities on hotbar, feats) meets Neverwinter atmosphere meets WoW (Lots of Quests, markers, shiny trail leads you to where you need to go).

There are some twists that make it more interesting, like Invocation (praying to your God every hour) that give you coins that you can spend(umm, like a flying unicorn?) and off course the Foundry. There are already hundreds of player-made quests with a very extensive search and review tool, which will become a huge part of the game imo. You pick these up through messageboards in Inns or by talking to barmaids and such (rumor-option). There seems to be a lot of lore and story (you pick a Deity and birthcity/background at creation, there's a lot of choices), and this will be multiplied by playermade content. Some of the Foundry stuff is already better written then the official stuff imo. You can even pay Astral Diamonds to an author, if you liked his stuff.

City looks very atmospheric, lots of Inns that look good. I definately get the "High Fantasy" vibe a lot more then when I play Rift. Combination of open world and instancing; when you enter a house or dungeon it is instanced but also lots of fighting outdoors, non instanced. Loot, itemization: definately pinata-style (lots and lots, +gooder) but still rather satisfying in a way.

Partial autoloot.

Overall I feel that the game has a pretty high value when it comes to UI, gamesystems and Combat. Rather unlike Cryptic tbh. The depth and longevity of this MMO will mostly depend on good player-made stuff, but the tools for that are definately there. For the rest it is a typical smooth and easy to get into MMO, with a good chance of boredom around the corner.
lol. worst comparison ever.



I don't know really. I don't hate Crpytic. Bits and pieces of good games, that have fallen short. I don't know if budgeting issues. They have ideas beyond their means, or if its just a few great devs saddled with a ton of shitty ones. Look at the player made content in City of Heroes, or the nemesis in Champions. End result is pretty meh. but you have to admit. they are thinking outside the mmo box.


For those in this beta, have you played DDO?
 

AlekseiFL_sl

shitlord
489
1
http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/02...erwinter-beta/

First impressions of Neverwinter's beta

Neverwinter is all the rage these days among MMO fans as the promise of a Fourth Edition D&D MMO in the Forgotten Realms setting has many old-school tabletop gamers jumping at the opportunity to get into the early testing stages. Thanks to last week's short press beta and this weekend's first early head-start glimpse, I was able to play through the game for a few days to get a feel for what to expect when the game launches later this year.

We first heard rumblings of a Neverwinter MMO in 2010 and got to see a live demo of it at E3 2011, just before Perfect World Entertainment took over Cryptic Studios. It was a very early build, but I was so excited to see a comprehensive drag-and-drop dungeon builder that seemed to work beautifully. Even during the demo, I was daydreaming about what I could do with this thing and the adventures I could have with my friends.

Of course, that all changed when Cryptic announced a complete overhaul to the original incarnation of the game. Luckily for us, this meant that the dungeon-creating RPG was turning into a full-fledged MMO.


Initial impressions

So far, most of our articles regarding Neverwinter's beta this week have been informative, but I wanted to give my opinion of what I saw without a whole lot of technical talk. I've been playing tabletop D&D since the '80s and '90s (when it was AD&D) and jumped into this game as a skeptical fan of the IP but also one who respects the work that Cryptic has done with both Champions Online and Star Trek Online.

That said, my first reaction when I set foot into the land of Faer?n was that this game looks like a Turbine creation. That's certainly not an insult, but I could honestly just stop this article right now by describing Neverwinter as the lovechild of Dungeons and Dragons Online, Lord of the Rings Online, and a bit of Champions Online.

Character creation

At first, I was completely turned off by the character models, but character creation itself is fun enough to keep me going. I'm not a fan of flat hair textures and dated faces, but I soldiered on because I sometimes like to pretend I'm not a total graphics snob.

The character creator grabbed me when it asked me to pick my origins, right down to my citizen type within my chosen city. Choosing a deity was equally as interesting, although the creator admits right at the top that the origins and deity choices are there only for flavor with no effect on gameplay. Bummer.

Rolling for my abilities was another let-down as it seems that the term "reroll" means something different to the developers than it does to me. It may be a safeguard put in place to prevent players from completely hobbling their characters, but the stats seem to only vary one or two points when you reroll.

Atmosphere

When I said earlier that this game is part LotRO, I'm mainly talking about the atmosphere and feel to the game. Heck, even the type font looks like it was taken directly out of LotRO. But again, this isn't an insult to Neverwinter as LotRO provides one of the best atmospheres in any current MMO.

In addition to that, I enjoyed the art style overall, despite not being fond of the character models. It's a bit on the stylized side, but I'm always a fan of the timelessness of that choice in art direction. Lighting and effects are wonderful, and the sound direction is probably my favorite part of the game's feel. The music seems very Champions-esque, and sound effects are top-quality.

Features

Unfortunately, the Foundry is not available yet in this stage of beta, but you can bet that we'll be covering that extensively when it is available. Aside from that, Neverwinter has plenty to keep you busy. Not only is there an overarching storyline to follow, but there are side quests from NPCs, scheduled dungeon events, bounties, arena events, relic hunts, and Foundry quests from other players in which you can participate at any time. You can set up to queue any of these events from one single page and add them to your calendar of events from within the game. This really gives me the impression that Cryptic wants to focus on large-scale player-driven content and community interaction, which are really among the biggest features missing in so many modern MMOs.

I was able to play through a few of these Foundry quests (presumably set up by Cryptic devs and alpha testers at this point?) and really enjoyed the process. It's very easy to jump into these player-created quests and campaigns at any time, and you can rate them at the end. You can even subscribe to certain authors to receive updates when they release new content, and you can donate even you're feeling particularly moved by their creations.

I reached only level 17 on one Trickster Rogue character (and got all other classes to 7-8), but I was able to obtain my first companion and play with that a bit. I chose the Wayward Wizard companion for his damage and had fun outfitting him with runestones and training him up. During the beta, there were three companion slots available with two other unlockable slots for a total of five.

Currency is interesting and reminds me a bit of Guild Wars 2. You can buy ZEN from the Neverwinter site and use it to buy items in the ZEN store or trade for Astral Diamonds, which can be used in the auction house. You can also refine Rough Astral Diamonds found in the game into regular spendable Astral Diamonds. There's also normal gold-based in-game currency for purchasing items from NPCs, and then there's Glory, which is earned in PvP and spent on special gear. There are also Ardent and Celestial tokens that are earned as you gain the favor of the gods by praying at altars. These tokens can be used to purchase consumables and collectibles that can be traded for high-end gear.

Combat

OK, at this point you may realize that I'm enjoying Neverwinter overall, but that perception's about to change when I describe combat.

First of all, I understand and respect the fact that the combat was created to be action-based with a reticle and aim-to-hit primary attacks. But you can't have this type of set-up if the reaction time of your skills is clunky and delayed. Double-tapping to dodge away from attacks works wonderfully in games like Guild Wars 2, but not in Neverwinter. Even that split second delay in your character's reaction due to a drawn-out dodge animation can cause some serious grief.


"I want to fire off daggers at that orc while running for cover behind that crate over there, not be frozen to the ground with a big target painted on my forehead."


On top of that, you can just go ahead and say goodbye to your hotbar friends 1,2,3,4,5, and 6; your new friends Q, E, R, Tab, left mouse button, and right mouse button are setting up shop. I'm not as bothered by these nontraditional keys because you can easily rebind them in the options, but I thought I'd warn you.

Strafing is also noticeably absent, which takes quite a bit away from the dynamic of combat, especially in ranged classes. I want to fire off daggers at that orc while running for cover behind that crate over there, not be frozen to the ground with a big target painted on my forehead.

That brings me to my final gripe about combat: auto targeting. It took me a few battles to realize that I was being assisted by the gods (i.e., a magnetic force that brought my reticle right over the baddies every time), but I felt that it was a bit too much in the hand-holding department. I will admit, I did enjoy the fact that I was automatically spun around to face the target each time, avoiding those annoying warnings you see in other games when you're not at the exact correct angle to your enemy. I guess it's give-and-take.


Conclusion

Overall, I really enjoyed Neverwinter, but I see it as a tool at this point. It's a fantasy MMO multi-wrench with all of the right elements in place to be helpful with your own D&D campaign, and the real test will be when players get in there and start recreating the battle of Helm's Deep or the entirety of Icewind Dale with the Foundry. I can see a strong community building around this game in much the same way that Neverwinter Nights pretty much made modding a household word. There's vast potential for podcast discussions, fansites rating the top Foundry campaigns, and much more.

I would say that if you like DDO, you're going to love Neverwinter because it seems as if it could just be called DDO 2 at this point. And that's a good thing.

Pros
. Strong focus on player-driven content
. Gorgeous art style
. Events are well-organized and easy to join
. Extensive currency system
. Exploring is rewarded
. Puzzles and hidden rooms!
Cons
. Clunky combat
. Dated character models
. Linear default storyline
 

Treesong

Bronze Knight of the Realm
362
29
@ Caliane:

Well, I compared it with like 5 different games, so I figured I couldn't go wrong there.
smile.png


But yeah, it doesn't really tell you what Neverwinter is like. I played DDO quit a bit and enjoyed it. I never liked the central hub in DDO and the so-called exploration areas are still outdoors instances. But the adventures were top notch and they kept me playing for quit a while.

I see great potential for playermade adventures in Neverwinter though I am not sure if they can be made as varied as DDO adventures: especially not sure about underwater play. For the rest I think the Foundry has a lot of tools to make some awesome stuff.

If they keep upgrading the Foundry and reviews are getting serious (as mentioned, good authors can actually make cash-shop coin by getting tips from players), coupled with the OK (in my book) graphical style and setting, I can see this game having some longevity.
 

Palum

what Suineg set it to
23,396
33,522
It is pretty bad. Yet still better than all the D&Ds that came before it. We have D&D Next (5e) coming to kill D&D for us.
My biggest gripe with 4e was that you keep getting new abilities that don't replace or upgrade old ones, but all have independent encounter or daily restrictions. It was like the EQ2 of pnp rpgs. Why do I need 8 attacks that do 2D10+x damage each with a different minor effect that I can use once per encounter?

Also, the best part of DDO was abusing 3.5 character generation. 4.0 classes are dumb by comparison, so I'm curious why they chose going from Champions/STO 'be whatever the hell you want' char building to this model for the one game that actually inherently supports those choices?
 

Zhaun_sl

shitlord
2,568
2
My biggest gripe with 4e was that you keep getting new abilities that don't replace or upgrade old ones, but all have independent encounter or daily restrictions. It was like the EQ2 of pnp rpgs. Why do I need 8 attacks that do 2D10+x damage each with a different minor effect that I can use once per encounter?
Think you need to play more. You get an Encnouter Attack at 1st, 3rd and 7th, then can swap them out for new ones at like 13, 17, 22 and 27 or somthing. So including the 1 you get from your Paragon Path, you never get more than 4 Encounter Attack Powers, unless you specificly try to get more (specific multiclass, theme or other selections). Many of the higher ones you replace the lower ones with are direct or rough upgrades, if you want that, or can get something different.
 

Palum

what Suineg set it to
23,396
33,522
Think you need to play more. You get an Encnouter Attack at 1st, 3rd and 7th, then can swap them out for new ones at like 13, 17, 22 and 27 or somthing. So including the 1 you get from your Paragon Path, you never get more than 4 Encounter Attack Powers, unless you specificly try to get more (specific multiclass, theme or other selections). Many of the higher ones you replace the lower ones with are direct or rough upgrades, if you want that, or can get something different.
Probably true, we never really got much past the first few levels in the few 4e campaigns I tried. Just the feeling of the system coming from just whirlwind attack taking a retarded number of feats to 'choose 18 ways to do similar things!'.
 

Kharza-kzad_sl

shitlord
1,080
0
I watched some video, and I was kind of thinking the characters had that turbine look about them. Like the turbine character artist had jumped over. That's not really a bad thing, but guildwars 2 has such amazingly lovely characters, it will be hard to look at new stuff that is not near that same level of quality.

A friend was in beta, and talking with him while I was watching the video, it looks like they are trending towards focusing the eye on the center where the action is. I've been waiting for more games to push this, but what I mean is not needing to look at the UI so much. Fast cooldowns, enemies reacting to hits, and visual indications of health levels.

Richard called it "playing the interface" when you have a wacky class with odd cooldowns you have to watch. I think the worst I've seen is lotro minstrel. Guildwars 2 was a bit of good and a bit of bad. It was difficult to notice being damaged, and there was a bit of the odd cooldown problem.
 

Zhaun_sl

shitlord
2,568
2
Probably true, we never really got much past the first few levels in the few 4e campaigns I tried. Just the feeling of the system coming from just whirlwind attack taking a retarded number of feats to 'choose 18 ways to do similar things!'.
I just find most people who dislike 4e haven't played enough to actually have a very informed opinon of it. After played every edition of D&D, I really do think it is the best of the lot. But I also honestly believe that it is too mired in the past and clinging to too many "holy cows", so there are many games out there in the world that are simply superior.

But it is all a matter of what you want out of your game really.
 

Palum

what Suineg set it to
23,396
33,522
I just find most people who dislike 4e haven't played enough to actually have a very informed opinon of it. After played every edition of D&D, I really do think it is the best of the lot. But I also honestly believe that it is too mired in the past and clinging to too many "holy cows", so there are many games out there in the world that are simply superior.

But it is all a matter of what you want out of your game really.
I agree. My problem with 4e was that there was so much premade/streamlined stuff in the basic rules that it was difficult to separate people out of the WoW mindset and have a true PnP game again. Even though the combat was far far better than 3.5 to tell stories and nothing prevented you from adding the roleplay part, 3.5 required it to have functional dungeon crawls that weren't complete shit whereas 4e was fine as a straight combat game. So every time I played 4e it quickly descended into 'oh more XP up ahead!' whereas 3.5 was much more conducive to 'ok, I'm going to throw the table into the doorway' because you had nothing else to manage between combat rounds. So it was really a blessing or a curse, depending on your play group.
 

Laura

Lord Nagafen Raider
582
109
I just find most people who dislike 4e haven't played enough to actually have a very informed opinon of it. After played every edition of D&D, I really do think it is the best of the lot. But I also honestly believe that it is too mired in the past and clinging to too many "holy cows", so there are many games out there in the world that are simply superior.

But it is all a matter of what you want out of your game really.
Correct me if I was wrong but didn't the 4e pushed the IP to be more combat-specific / combat-oriented and less of "Role Playing" the combat seemed like you're playing a dungeon crawler and not an RPG. That's why a lot of our playing group switched to Pathfinder.
 

Laura

Lord Nagafen Raider
582
109
I watched some video, and I was kind of thinking the characters had that turbine look about them. Like the turbine character artist had jumped over. That's not really a bad thing, but guildwars 2 has such amazingly lovely characters, it will be hard to look at new stuff that is not near that same level of quality.

A friend was in beta, and talking with him while I was watching the video, it looks like they are trending towards focusing the eye on the center where the action is. I've been waiting for more games to push this, but what I mean is not needing to look at the UI so much. Fast cooldowns, enemies reacting to hits, and visual indications of health levels.

Richard called it "playing the interface" when you have a wacky class with odd cooldowns you have to watch. I think the worst I've seen is lotro minstrel. Guildwars 2 was a bit of good and a bit of bad. It was difficult to notice being damaged, and there was a bit of the odd cooldown problem.
I agree with you all the way. The last thing I want to do in an MMORPG is "play the interface" but the good news is we're seeing the trend of minimizing skills in the action-bar (which is a good thing) let's hope we get less of this "reactive" (whack-a-mole mini games) in your action bar.

I want a slow paced resource-management / strategic combat back. I don't want to watch my UI just in case a button blinks that I need to press.
 

Zhaun_sl

shitlord
2,568
2
Correct me if I was wrong but didn't the 4e pushed the IP to be more combat-specific / combat-oriented and less of "Role Playing" the combat seemed like you're playing a dungeon crawler and not an RPG. That's why a lot of our playing group switched to Pathfinder.
No, that was just the propaganda.

4e was just as much of a dungeon crawler as 3e really, it just codified it better to make it easier to run and play and to make balanced out encounters easier by taking a different approach. Mainly because it gave you a bunch of stuff to do in combat, and removed non-combat stuff to its own thing to try and and remove the "Ooops, the wizard/sorcerer/druid/cleric cast a spell and eliminated the challenge from this whole scenario" type occurances.

It tried to achieve some balance across classes and make more classes interesting, and reduce "I snap my fingers and change the world" type stuff, to try and have the game make a bit more sense. And, comeing straight off from the insane bullshit you can pull off in 3e, it was a bit of a shock to the system for many people. So they really didn't give it much more than a glance or any time to mature before coming up with wild and crazy stories about what is was and wasn't.

That said, Piazo did a much better job marketing and supporting Pathfinder than Wizards ever did 4e. So credit where credit is due there for sure.
 

Itzena_sl

shitlord
4,609
6
It is pretty bad. Yet still better than all the D&Ds that came before it. We have D&D Next (5e) coming to kill D&D for us.
Nah. 3.5e(/PF) > 3e > 2e > 1e > Red Box D&D > 4e

4th wasterrible. They tried to turn D&D into an pencil & paper MMO so they could license the rules out easier, then fucked up the licensinganyway.