New World

Lumi

Vyemm Raider
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I have no idea how coding and or blockchain technology works exactly but I wonder if MMO's/games, in general, can utilize a similar sort of technology to essentially make duping impossible since creating fake/forged cryptocurrencies is virtually impossible. The technology exists but idk if it's logistically possible to implement it into a video game. Would be pretty sweet though if it could be.
 
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Sylas

<Bronze Donator>
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Kronomo: Story of a dead server.

To give you some background. Population has dropped from around 1k weekend prime time early on in the game, to around 400, with off hours dropping from 200 to 50 ppl. OPR never pops on this server.

Covenant got wiped pretty early and has always had way fewer players, so never been in contention really other than well timed efforts of the entire faction to maybe take 1 territory and then lose it a week later. But realistically most of the time it has been Marauders Vs Syndicate for control of the map, with green having a slight advantage (6v5 territories).

The largest green company (TCK) on my server basically took over most of the map, so a bunch of the defeated purple guilds transferred off. Which left green with 0 competition so then most of them transferred off also, including TCK. A few of their members who had transferred on to the server (and thus couldn't transfer off) along with some other greens corps formed a new company and have been slowly taking over territory (Ebonscale, Brightwood, Cutlass). Purple still holds Weaver's, Reekwater, and First light. a 13 man company in Covenant holds Restless Shore since there was 0 defenders when the war went down.

However, population has declined so much with transfers and people quitting, that Monarch's, Windsward, and Everfall; you know, the main territories for trade/money making? are still held by TCK, even though TCK does not exist on the server anymore. The "All Companies" page shows that only 8 territories are claimed, while the Map still shows them held by TCK.

Since the current green companies can't take the territory from their own faction, they are trying to sell these territories to Covenant, they won't let purple take them. What's left of green basically crushes any attempts by purple to push these territories in to contention, and covenant doesn't have the man power to actually do it/refuses to pay for the territories. So 10 days after the controlling company left, the 3 main territories are still held by a company that doesn't exist.

no one can start any town projects, and no one defends against invasions so every invasion these towns just slowly downgrade. All rent and taxes paid in these towns just vanishes from the server since it doesn't go to any company. Everfall is still the main trade hub with more TP items than the rest of the towns combined, and most players own houses in At least EF if not WW as well.

What's even more hilarious is that right before they left, they set the taxes on everything in these towns to max. What few players remain have slowly been moving assets to Brightwood to make that the "new" hub for trade, but most people either just quit, or just farm mats while waiting for the inevitable server merges instead.
 
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Morrow

Trakanon Raider
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This is from a dev post. When I look at myself and other 60’s, I do not feel like voidbent is that rare. Much less 600 GS items, which I would think people would on average have at least 2 or 3 pieces by now from crafting alone.

View attachment 382517
This is bullshit.

They removed the 2k Major Luck Trophies on the market on Amenti, but left those that were 10k+. They also left a ton of 5k Major Arcana Trophies. And personally I still have the 3 major trophies I paid like 2k for, and a guildy that bought like 18 cheap trophies also still has them.

Another guildy that was totally legit, but was our server's top crafter, is perma banned and so far appeals have been ignored and he is given a generic response or told the ban was justified. I'm 100% he was legit. But because he was our server's top crafter and always has been, he has crafted a fuck ton of Voidbent and major trophies and was super rich, so they banned him and are sure they are correct. I remember there was some guy on Veeshan that got banned for having 800k plat in like Kunark, they were so sure it had to be duped. Nope, the dude was just a really good trader and had to force them to go through every single trade log to unban him.

They are flailing around in the dark. And this is why you do rollbacks. Too bad the modern MMORPG player is too dumb, naïve and inexperienced to understand how preferable a rollback is to a fucked economy. You mention a rollback anywhere and people start losing their minds, talking about how they refuse to lose their precious few hours of newb grinding. But even a day rollback wouldn't be enough, people have been doing this quietly for a long time.

The dupe is so basic that I guarantee it was reported in beta.


Also, where do you draw the line? Some people noticed prices were cheaper than what made sense as long as week ago, but the person duping was staggering things onto the market. Do you remove the 35k Major Trophy that was probably only 15% cheaper than what a legit one would have been? Do you remove only trophies/ban only those that purchased trophies that were below 10k? Some people argue that you should ban anyone or punish anyone that purchased a trophy/furniture they "knew" was duped. How could they have known? When it was 2k? 10k? 20k? Where is the line. The dupe has been going on too long for that and in too subtle a way.
 
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Morrow

Trakanon Raider
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918
Kronomo: Story of a dead server.

To give you some background. Population has dropped from around 1k weekend prime time early on in the game, to around 400, with off hours dropping from 200 to 50 ppl. OPR never pops on this server.

Covenant got wiped pretty early and has always had way fewer players, so never been in contention really other than well timed efforts of the entire faction to maybe take 1 territory and then lose it a week later. But realistically most of the time it has been Marauders Vs Syndicate for control of the map, with green having a slight advantage (6v5 territories).

The largest green company (TCK) on my server basically took over most of the map, so a bunch of the defeated purple guilds transferred off. Which left green with 0 competition so then most of them transferred off also, including TCK. A few of their members who had transferred on to the server (and thus couldn't transfer off) along with some other greens corps formed a new company and have been slowly taking over territory (Ebonscale, Brightwood, Cutlass). Purple still holds Weaver's, Reekwater, and First light. a 13 man company in Covenant holds Restless Shore since there was 0 defenders when the war went down.

However, population has declined so much with transfers and people quitting, that Monarch's, Windsward, and Everfall; you know, the main territories for trade/money making? are still held by TCK, even though TCK does not exist on the server anymore. The "All Companies" page shows that only 8 territories are claimed, while the Map still shows them held by TCK.

Since the current green companies can't take the territory from their own faction, they are trying to sell these territories to Covenant, they won't let purple take them. What's left of green basically crushes any attempts by purple to push these territories in to contention, and covenant doesn't have the man power to actually do it/refuses to pay for the territories. So 10 days after the controlling company left, the 3 main territories are still held by a company that doesn't exist.

no one can start any town projects, and no one defends against invasions so every invasion these towns just slowly downgrade. All rent and taxes paid in these towns just vanishes from the server since it doesn't go to any company. Everfall is still the main trade hub with more TP items than the rest of the towns combined, and most players own houses in At least EF if not WW as well.

What's even more hilarious is that right before they left, they set the taxes on everything in these towns to max. What few players remain have slowly been moving assets to Brightwood to make that the "new" hub for trade, but most people either just quit, or just farm mats while waiting for the inevitable server merges instead.
Yeah this was obviously going to happen, and we were led to believe that mergers would be swift and thorough. That's literally the only thing that could have mitigated this in some way in such a player driven game. It's too late for that now though, just like it's too late for the dupes. It's really fucking sad. There are a ton of servers where nothing past T3 stations have existed in weeks now and there's nothing anybody can do about it. So those servers are well and truly dead, and people are stuck.
 
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Mahes

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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5,435
So the only sure way to not get banned is to just not trade with players.

Stupid...

Its like watching a documentary on how not to run an MMO.

1. Change the entire premise of your game halfway through its creation.
2. Release with new premise way to early despite what every player who tested your game told you not to do.
3. Do no rollbacks when a near crippling system is introduced to the game.
4. Choose to only temp ban players using said system.
5. When new crippling system is introduced start perma banning players with no regard to any kind of appeal for those not worthy of being caught in net.
6. Do not communicate status of game before launch so players can know when a system is not working.( That is 5 minutes of actual work because they have already used the system).
7. Have no plan in place for server Mergers.
8. Take an extreme amount of time to actually fix the many bugs that have existed since Beta.
9. Introduce a patch that rewards those who crafted early and hard and penalize those who did not play the game as hard.
10. Penalize players with systems that you could actually make a lot of money on. (Housing)
11. Have little in the shop that is the only way to generate funds beyond the initial cost of the game.
12. there are most likely many more.....

Missed an obvious one
13. Giving the client to much authority, thus causing many of the issues that cannot be fixed.

This is seriously the strangest thing to watch. Its like this is the very first MMO to ever exist and nobody knows what to do.
 
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Jozu

Bronze Baronet of the Realm
6,959
6,268
The problem is all the new movies and games and digital media entertainment is now being created by kids as the veterans of generations past get older and retire or are forced out.

This is the result.
 
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Cybsled

Avatar of War Slayer
16,499
12,156
They are flailing around in the dark. And this is why you do rollbacks. Too bad the modern MMORPG player is too dumb, naïve and inexperienced to understand how preferable a rollback is to a fucked economy. You mention a rollback anywhere and people start losing their minds, talking about how they refuse to lose their precious few hours of newb grinding. But even a day rollback wouldn't be enough, people have been doing this quietly for a long time.

The damage from a major rollback far outweighs some shitters duping trophies or void armor. Punishing hundreds of thousands for the action of a little over 1k would cause mass quitting.

Better action is fix the issues and add new shit that better than the old shit
 
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Daidraco

Golden Baronet of the Realm
9,257
9,359
This is bullshit.

They removed the 2k Major Luck Trophies on the market on Amenti, but left those that were 10k+. They also left a ton of 5k Major Arcana Trophies. And personally I still have the 3 major trophies I paid like 2k for, and a guildy that bought like 18 cheap trophies also still has them.

Another guildy that was totally legit, but was our server's top crafter, is perma banned and so far appeals have been ignored and he is given a generic response or told the ban was justified. I'm 100% he was legit. But because he was our server's top crafter and always has been, he has crafted a fuck ton of Voidbent and major trophies and was super rich, so they banned him and are sure they are correct. I remember there was some guy on Veeshan that got banned for having 800k plat in like Kunark, they were so sure it had to be duped. Nope, the dude was just a really good trader and had to force them to go through every single trade log to unban him.

They are flailing around in the dark. And this is why you do rollbacks. Too bad the modern MMORPG player is too dumb, naïve and inexperienced to understand how preferable a rollback is to a fucked economy. You mention a rollback anywhere and people start losing their minds, talking about how they refuse to lose their precious few hours of newb grinding. But even a day rollback wouldn't be enough, people have been doing this quietly for a long time.

The dupe is so basic that I guarantee it was reported in beta.


Also, where do you draw the line? Some people noticed prices were cheaper than what made sense as long as week ago, but the person duping was staggering things onto the market. Do you remove the 35k Major Trophy that was probably only 15% cheaper than what a legit one would have been? Do you remove only trophies/ban only those that purchased trophies that were below 10k? Some people argue that you should ban anyone or punish anyone that purchased a trophy/furniture they "knew" was duped. How could they have known? When it was 2k? 10k? 20k? Where is the line. The dupe has been going on too long for that and in too subtle a way.
Granted the conversation it came from was centered around the duping - but its just hard for me to believe the statistics that they gathered about gear. It made me feel like the people Im around on Vingolf are the special butterflies of the server and I had no idea. Ive got the current voidbent BP and Im saving the rest of my ingots for the high physical Heavy Voidbent in the pipeline - think the lowest piece of gear outside of tools and bags is 585 on my second set. One set for luck, which I wear about 99% of the time cause Luck is fucking stupid, and another set for situations where Luck has no relevance. Never mind my survivability goes up 10 fold in the second set, cause it has relevant perks on it like Keen, and CD reduction and proper gems.

I agree with you on the luck perks. Personally, I'd like to see Loot Luck removed from gear in general. Either set it as a modifier thats based off your average WM score or place luck modifiers completely upon trophies and increase the amount of luck you receive from them. Increasing the percentage to equal, say the mining trophy, so instead of 150, its 1500 - now at Major level trophy, we're about in the same percentage that we would have with it on our gear. After writing that all out, hell, I'm starting to think that was the original intent and some ass hat either thought Luck on gear would be a good thing, or they thought it was too much Luck value.

Server merges are going to happen and they'll happen again. Even if this game was God's gift to man, the game still would have lost a ton of players. The dupes, the bugs, the super in your face grind, they're all just speeding it up.
 

Mahes

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
4,736
5,435
The damage from a major rollback far outweighs some shitters duping trophies or void armor. Punishing hundreds of thousands for the action of a little over 1k would cause mass quitting.

Better action is fix the issues and add new shit that better than the old shit
At this point, a Tier 6 could actually help the situation a lot. Would that come with a level increase and craft level increase? All of that would perhaps help but they need to nail everything down first before they start adding new stuff. The question really is, will players come back?
 

Morrow

Trakanon Raider
3,267
918
The damage from a major rollback far outweighs some shitters duping trophies or void armor. Punishing hundreds of thousands for the action of a little over 1k would cause mass quitting.

Better action is fix the issues and add new shit that better than the old shit
You realize they already are punishing everyone right now, right? The market is down and people can't trade. You're an idiot to have the experience of past MMORPGs and to still not think a rollback is the only real answer in situations like this. Rollbacks are absolutely, unequivocally the least bad option and that is why they are done. Unless you have the perfect tech to do everything manually, a rollback is the only real solution. But you have to be quick, and they aren't.

Even so, had they rolled back just yesterday, it would have mitigated 95% of the duping and been the best for the game long term.

Now, instead of having little crybabies like you, that would quit over a few hours lost, we have people quitting anyways because all of their hard work was made meaningless or because they were innocently banned. yeah, I'll take the naïve little babies that would rather the economy be dead and end game crafting meaningless quit than the good players, thanks.

Doesn't matter anyways, they won't do it and it's too late. The MMORPG genre is doomed.
 
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Mahes

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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5,435
The MMORPG genre is doomed.
I would not go that far yet. As I said a while back, there is certainly one company that should be benefiting from this a lot.

1637078254198.png
 

Cybsled

Avatar of War Slayer
16,499
12,156
If you do rollbacks, you do surgical rollbacks. Yes, the market is down and it’s sucks. But nuking progress for everyone makes people quit. Got lucky and finally got that thing you always wanted? Too bad, we rolling back because 10 assholes duped some luck trophies on your server

Rollbacks don’t work for a progression game bleeding players. It just hastens the demise more than the damage of duper’s would.
 

moonarchia

The Scientific Shitlord
21,612
39,337
I agree with you on the luck perks. Personally, I'd like to see Loot Luck removed from gear in general. Either set it as a modifier thats based off your average WM score or place luck modifiers completely upon trophies and increase the amount of luck you receive from them. Increasing the percentage to equal, say the mining trophy, so instead of 150, its 1500 - now at Major level trophy, we're about in the same percentage that we would have with it on our gear. After writing that all out, hell, I'm starting to think that was the original intent and some ass hat either thought Luck on gear would be a good thing, or they thought it was too much Luck value.
Tie it to your rep as a passive that goes up by X% with every rep level you have in that zone.
 
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Gravel

Mr. Poopybutthole
36,479
116,046
You realize they already are punishing everyone right now, right? The market is down and people can't trade. You're an idiot to have the experience of past MMORPGs and to still not think a rollback is the only real answer in situations like this. Rollbacks are absolutely, unequivocally the least bad option and that is why they are done. Unless you have the perfect tech to do everything manually, a rollback is the only real solution. But you have to be quick, and they aren't.

Even so, had they rolled back just yesterday, it would have mitigated 95% of the duping and been the best for the game long term.

Now, instead of having little crybabies like you, that would quit over a few hours lost, we have people quitting anyways because all of their hard work was made meaningless or because they were innocently banned. yeah, I'll take the naïve little babies that would rather the economy be dead and end game crafting meaningless quit than the good players, thanks.

Doesn't matter anyways, they won't do it and it's too late. The MMORPG genre is doomed.
They can't roll back when they've never fixed the problem that's causing all the dupes.

And from what I understand, they're mostly all coming from the fact that they handed off so much to the clients to authenticate. Essentially meaning the game is irreparably broken. They built it on a terrible foundation that's easily exploitable. Barring a complete re-code, the game is DOA.
 
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Morrow

Trakanon Raider
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They can't roll back when they've never fixed the problem that's causing all the dupes.

And from what I understand, they're mostly all coming from the fact that they handed off so much to the clients to authenticate. Essentially meaning the game is irreparably broken. They built it on a terrible foundation that's easily exploitable. Barring a complete re-code, the game is DOA.
True, the fact that the game gives the client so much authority is always going to cause big problems like this.
 
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Mahes

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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They can't roll back when they've never fixed the problem that's causing all the dupes.

And from what I understand, they're mostly all coming from the fact that they handed off so much to the clients to authenticate. Essentially meaning the game is irreparably broken. They built it on a terrible foundation that's easily exploitable. Barring a complete re-code, the game is DOA.
Oh yeah, let me add that to the list of things not to do. That one is too glaringly obvious. I will edit my previous post.
 

Xerge

<Donor>
1,318
1,245
They can't roll back when they've never fixed the problem that's causing all the dupes.

And from what I understand, they're mostly all coming from the fact that they handed off so much to the clients to authenticate. Essentially meaning the game is irreparably broken. They built it on a terrible foundation that's easily exploitable. Barring a complete re-code, the game is DOA.

True, the fact that the game gives the client so much authority is always going to cause big problems like this.
Did the developers go back on this post and suddenly declare their game client authoritative?