As long as they remain the PRC's play thing, ain't nothin' happening to Best Korea.
North Korea
- Thread starter Araxen
- Start date
Someone pointed out the main reason North Korea is all but immune to attack is because toppling their government would create a humanitarian crisis the likes of which the world has never really seen and someone would have to be responsable for cleaning it up and no one wants that responsability.
I guess when you sit down and do the hard maths of what it would take to dig a nation of millions of starving, sick, xenophobic peasants out of thier mud huts and drag them into the 21st century, largely against thier will due to the brainwashing. It just isn't worth it. It is literally more cost effective to carpetbomb the entire nation out of existance with cheap conventional weapons, killing everyone there and letting nature regrow, and a fuck load easier than properly fixing the problem.
But of course, there is no way you can do such a thing, as it would be utterly monsterous.
I guess when you sit down and do the hard maths of what it would take to dig a nation of millions of starving, sick, xenophobic peasants out of thier mud huts and drag them into the 21st century, largely against thier will due to the brainwashing. It just isn't worth it. It is literally more cost effective to carpetbomb the entire nation out of existance with cheap conventional weapons, killing everyone there and letting nature regrow, and a fuck load easier than properly fixing the problem.
But of course, there is no way you can do such a thing, as it would be utterly monsterous.
last I heard China told em not to pull this shit or it would cut-off their aid, China is also pissed that new Kim is being an arrogant little fuck compared to the old Kims and doesn't return their calls.
Lambourne
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China did know about it ahead of time and told them not to do the test. Coupled with upcoming leadership change in China next month, this could shift their relations quite a bit.
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/asia-p...047642848.html(text in spoiler below)
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/asia-p...047642848.html(text in spoiler below)
North Korea has successfully carried out an underground nuclear test of a new, "miniaturised" device, state media says, in a move widely condemned by the international community.
State-run Korean Central News Agency (KCNA) said the test was conducted in a safe manner and is aimed at coping with "outrageous" US hostility that "violently" undermines the North's peaceful, sovereign rights to launch satellites.
"The high-level nuclear test, unlike in the past, had more explosive power and involved a miniaturised and lighter atomic bomb and was staged safely and perfectly," KCNA said.
The announcement came after seismic activity measuring 4.9 magnitude was registered on Tuesday by the US Geological Survey.
UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon condemned the test, saying it was "deplorable" that Pyongyang had defied international appeals to refrain from such provocative acts.
"The secretary-general condemns the underground nuclear weapon test conducted by [North Korea] today," Ban's spokesman Martin Nesirky said in a statement. "It is a clear and grave violation of the relevant Security Council resolutions."
US President Barack Obama described the test as a "highly provocative act" that "undermines regional stability" and called Pyongyang's nuclear programme a threat to the US, its allies, and to international security.
Several other countries, including the isolated North's closest ally, China, condemned the test. Japan said it was "extremely regrettable" and Russia called it a violation of Pyongyang's international obligations.
The UK said it would begin "urgent consultations with Security Council partners calling for a robust response".
International concern
The announcement that the detonated device was "miniaturised" will raise alarm around the globe, with its suggestion that Pyongyang has mastered the technically complex process of producing a warhead small enough to fit on a long-range missile.
South Korean defence ministry spokesman Kim Min-seok, citing seismic data, said the test had an explosive yield of at least six or seven kilotons, significantly more than North Korea's two previous tests in 2006 and 2009.
The South Korean defence ministry raised its military alert level, saying the country was on alert for additional nuclear activity or a missile launch.
The UN Security Council will meet at 14:00 GMT on Tuesday for emergency consultations.
South Korea is the current president of the 15-country Security Council and had been calling for strong action against its neighbour in the event of a nuclear test.
China expressed "firm opposition" to the test, saying its ally had gone ahead with the blast "despite widespread opposition from the international community".
"We strongly urge the DPRK [North Korea] to honour its commitment to denuclearisation, and not to take any actions which might worsen the situation," the foreign ministry said in a statement.
China had made a special effort to try to head off the bomb test, said a UN diplomat who has taken part in recent consultations. China has "special means of communications" with the entourage of North Korean leader Kim Jong-un, the envoy added.
However, Al Jazeera's Marga Ortigas, reporting from Hong Kong, said China's relationship with North Korea might change under the new Chinese leadership due to take over in March.
"It may no longer tolerate what has become a bigger and bigger thorn in its side," she said.
"The new president, Xi Jinping, has made it very clear clear he intends to make relationships between China and the US better. He wants to redefine them and possibly find a way that they can move forward, working with each other."
State-run Korean Central News Agency (KCNA) said the test was conducted in a safe manner and is aimed at coping with "outrageous" US hostility that "violently" undermines the North's peaceful, sovereign rights to launch satellites.
"The high-level nuclear test, unlike in the past, had more explosive power and involved a miniaturised and lighter atomic bomb and was staged safely and perfectly," KCNA said.
The announcement came after seismic activity measuring 4.9 magnitude was registered on Tuesday by the US Geological Survey.
UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon condemned the test, saying it was "deplorable" that Pyongyang had defied international appeals to refrain from such provocative acts.
"The secretary-general condemns the underground nuclear weapon test conducted by [North Korea] today," Ban's spokesman Martin Nesirky said in a statement. "It is a clear and grave violation of the relevant Security Council resolutions."
US President Barack Obama described the test as a "highly provocative act" that "undermines regional stability" and called Pyongyang's nuclear programme a threat to the US, its allies, and to international security.
Several other countries, including the isolated North's closest ally, China, condemned the test. Japan said it was "extremely regrettable" and Russia called it a violation of Pyongyang's international obligations.
The UK said it would begin "urgent consultations with Security Council partners calling for a robust response".
International concern
The announcement that the detonated device was "miniaturised" will raise alarm around the globe, with its suggestion that Pyongyang has mastered the technically complex process of producing a warhead small enough to fit on a long-range missile.
South Korean defence ministry spokesman Kim Min-seok, citing seismic data, said the test had an explosive yield of at least six or seven kilotons, significantly more than North Korea's two previous tests in 2006 and 2009.
The South Korean defence ministry raised its military alert level, saying the country was on alert for additional nuclear activity or a missile launch.
The UN Security Council will meet at 14:00 GMT on Tuesday for emergency consultations.
South Korea is the current president of the 15-country Security Council and had been calling for strong action against its neighbour in the event of a nuclear test.
China expressed "firm opposition" to the test, saying its ally had gone ahead with the blast "despite widespread opposition from the international community".
"We strongly urge the DPRK [North Korea] to honour its commitment to denuclearisation, and not to take any actions which might worsen the situation," the foreign ministry said in a statement.
China had made a special effort to try to head off the bomb test, said a UN diplomat who has taken part in recent consultations. China has "special means of communications" with the entourage of North Korean leader Kim Jong-un, the envoy added.
However, Al Jazeera's Marga Ortigas, reporting from Hong Kong, said China's relationship with North Korea might change under the new Chinese leadership due to take over in March.
"It may no longer tolerate what has become a bigger and bigger thorn in its side," she said.
"The new president, Xi Jinping, has made it very clear clear he intends to make relationships between China and the US better. He wants to redefine them and possibly find a way that they can move forward, working with each other."
Loser Araysar
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Well, that and 2,000,000+ Koreans ready to swarm over the DMZ into Seoul.
I don't think its possible to turn NK into a wasteland without turning SK into a wasteland.
kaid
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China is going to wind up in an ugly situation if they keep letting NK do this because eventually south korea and japan are going to wind up making nukes of their own for defense and china really does not want to be surrounded by countries all working on nuke programs.
agripa
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NK is immune to attack because the DMZ is around 35 miles from the capital Seoul. This makes the capital within artillery range of the North. Seoul has about 25 million people living in the city which account for about half of the South Korean population. It is hard to imagine the devastation that would be caused by such an attack on not only the people living there but the world economy.
Agraza
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There will be no nuclear arms race outside the borders of North Korea. The hit to their foreign relations would be more expensive than the benefits. For that matter China already is surrounded by nuclear powers. India, Pakistan, and Russia all share borders with China. Japan has nuclear tech, they just don't spend on weapons.
I think China's problem is that when/if it all hits the fan alot of the splatter (in the form of refugees and other problems) will hit China.
agripa
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hodj
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China already has 900 million poverty stricken rice farmers to take care of, is the problem.
They really can't afford to take in the 20 million North Koreans.
What they want is the government there to slowly liberalize economically, as they have, but they don't want to actually spend any money to help them, because China has been and remains mostly internally focused.
I don't blame them, and wouldn't expect them to do much ever for North Korea. Its a no man's land buffer zone between the West's influence via South Korea and Japan into China. That's how they see it. There are (or were) significant iron and other resources in North Korea that could potentially be leveraged to help rebuild their economy, they just have no interest in it.
North Korea is truly the perfect example of the failures of a military run government. Then you can also see them as the perfect example of the failure in US post Cold War policy. We basically shunned the poorest ex Communist ally nation states, in Africa, Asia, etc. and a good portion of these states are now the most fucked up states on Earth.
They really can't afford to take in the 20 million North Koreans.
What they want is the government there to slowly liberalize economically, as they have, but they don't want to actually spend any money to help them, because China has been and remains mostly internally focused.
I don't blame them, and wouldn't expect them to do much ever for North Korea. Its a no man's land buffer zone between the West's influence via South Korea and Japan into China. That's how they see it. There are (or were) significant iron and other resources in North Korea that could potentially be leveraged to help rebuild their economy, they just have no interest in it.
North Korea is truly the perfect example of the failures of a military run government. Then you can also see them as the perfect example of the failure in US post Cold War policy. We basically shunned the poorest ex Communist ally nation states, in Africa, Asia, etc. and a good portion of these states are now the most fucked up states on Earth.
I've read reports suggesting this isn't as likely as we think anymore. There was a point like 30 years ago that Seoul would have been evaporated and everyone killed, but I believe they remade a lot of buildings up to new standards and there is a massive underground subway that doubles as a bunker/shelter thing that pretty much everyone in the city can get to in a matter of minutes.
Also there is a limited number of artillery that can hit that far and a lot has been slowly falling into disrepair over the years. Combined with retalitory strikes from US/SK forces against that artillery, people seem fairly confident that Seoul won't just dissapear from a conventional NK attack.
NK to China is not what Mexico is to the US.
The chinese diaspora (N&S America, Australia, Malaya) is/are to China what Mexico is to the US. Albeit with far less tasty burritos.
edit: also turns out there's no "e" in "tasty"
NK is insulated by the fact that they are under the wing of the Chinese. After that, they have no viable natural resources and any major escalation would almost certainly spill over into SK. Apple can't be havin' no interruption on getting them Samsung screens.