Pan'Theon: Rise' of th'e Fal'Len - #1 Thread in MMO

Faux

Faux

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Convo_sl said:
Too much focus on Brad and not enough on the rest of the team. Brad hasn't even been the most visible person on this project.
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This is definitely a frustrating aspect of this whole thread. I don't get excited about Pantheon because of Brad per se (although I like his design ideas, in general), but I do get excited and feel optimistic about what the rest of the team is doing and what they have accomplished in the last year. If you can't admit that the team has made forward progress (whether its enough progress for you is another matter) under Joppa, you have lost your objectivity. Eventually the project will go to alpha and can be evaluated objectively then. Some people seem incapable of getting past their own negativity though. Be negative because the game never hits alpha or the alpha is shit, not because you have a vendetta against Brad. Its not just him over there.
 
hodj

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Faux_sl said:
This is definitely a frustrating aspect of this whole thread. I don't get excited about Pantheon because of Brad per se (although I like his design ideas, in general), but I do get excited and feel optimistic about what the rest of the team is doing and what they have accomplished in the last year. If you can't admit that the team has made forward progress (whether its enough progress for you is another matter) under Joppa, you have lost your objectivity. Eventually the project will go to alpha and can be evaluated objectively then. Some people seem incapable of getting past their own negativity though. Be negative because the game never hits alpha or the alpha is shit, not because you have a vendetta against Brad. Its not just him over there.
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Screw me once, shame on you, screw me twice, shame on me.

No one has a vendetta against Brad.

What they have is a conscious memory of him pissing away 50 million dollars, firing an entire team in the parking lot after work one day, running a failed kickstarter, then stealing some of the money to pay his own bills.

That's not a vendetta. That's simply basing future expectations on past results.

Anyone who says people should be behaving differently is either a gullible fool, or a liar.
 
Faux

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hodj_sl said:
Screw me once, shame on you, screw me twice, shame on me.

No one has a vendetta against Brad.

What they have is a conscious memory of him pissing away 50 million dollars, firing an entire team in the parking lot after work one day, running a failed kickstarter, then stealing some of the money to pay his own bills.

That's not a vendetta. That's simply basing future expectations on past results.

Anyone who says people should be behaving differently is either a gullible fool, or a liar.
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I'm not talking about everyone who naysays the project because Brad definitely dug himself a deep hole right from the start, and there have been a lot of valid criticisms (Rerolled tried to save him from the kickstarter with excellent feedback). I'm not even saying people arent right to distrust Brad as he has earned that. My comment was more directed at the folks who pop in to make a snide reference to drug use and shit all over everything associated with the project. They are the ones who have a pathological refusal to admit thatanythingpositiveat allhas happened with Pantheon in the last year and disparage the team as just a bunch of amateurs (many of them are, but some aren't). Its disrespectful and childish to claim that amateurs can't code properly or build a stable game just because they are amateurs. It may be true of this team, but there is no objective basis to claim that now. Its just negativity for the sake of negativity.

And for what its worth, Brad does not appear (I have no inside knowledge of this, obviously) to be in charge of the money and like Convo said, he is hardly even the most visible person on the project right now. Shitting up the thread at every turn just because its him is stupid. Alpha will eventually get here and people can make objective evaluations then. If alpha never arrives, that can be the basis of their evaluation.
 
hodj

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Fair enough.

My only issue with what you just said is that the "alpha will eventually arrive" position can be used nearly indefinitely, for all intents and purposes. It could feasibly be three years from now and people could still be saying "Well, alpha is just around the corner!" And then, if alpha does arrive, we'll be hearing "Its just ALPHA!" and then "Its just beta!" That's how it went with Vanguard, from what I recall.

There was always a mystery magic patch or change coming just around the corner that would surely make everyone think differently.

See what I'm saying?

My only point here is this community is pretty old, and it feels like we've seen all that before. There just isn't much evidence to justify being super optimistic about this project at this point, regardless of the potential progress they may or may not have made.

I dunno. Like I said, I'm not emotionally invested in EQ anyway enough to care, beyond, you know, I like MMOs, everyone on this forum likes MMOs, and would like to see more good MMOs get made, and be successful, since from where I'm sitting, the MMO industry isn't dead, necessarily, but it sure is flopping around like a fish out of water the past half decade or more.
 
Reht

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hodj_sl said:
Fair enough.

My only issue with what you just said is that the "alpha will eventually arrive" position can be used nearly indefinitely, for all intents and purposes. It could feasibly be three years from now and people could still be saying "Well, alpha is just around the corner!" And then, if alpha does arrive, we'll be hearing "Its just ALPHA!" and then "Its just beta!" That's how it went with Vanguard, from what I recall.

There was always a mystery magic patch or change coming just around the corner that would surely make everyone think differently.

See what I'm saying?

My only point here is this community is pretty old, and it feels like we've seen all that before. There just isn't much evidence to justify being super optimistic about this project at this point, regardless of the potential progress they may or may not have made.

I dunno. Like I said, I'm not emotionally invested in EQ anyway enough to care, beyond, you know, I like MMOs, everyone on this forum likes MMOs, and would like to see more good MMOs get made, and be successful, since from where I'm sitting, the MMO industry isn't dead, necessarily, but it sure is flopping around like a fish out of water the past half decade or more.
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They have already said they would like to have an internal test/old school limited alpha by the end of the year and they said that before the team expanded to what it is now. I think they were shooting for one zone, four classes and up to level 10 or something. If they go past the end of the year without any meaningful update and by meaningful i mean more than a couple of screen shots from the same rehashed 2 or 3 zones then they will deserve to have it shoveled on them. I am willing to wait and see what progress the big update in Sept/Oct shows before making any further judgement.
 
Faux

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hodj_sl said:
Fair enough.

My only issue with what you just said is that the "alpha will eventually arrive" position can be used nearly indefinitely, for all intents and purposes. It could feasibly be three years from now and people could still be saying "Well, alpha is just around the corner!" And then, if alpha does arrive, we'll be hearing "Its just ALPHA!" and then "Its just beta!" That's how it went with Vanguard, from what I recall.

There was always a mystery magic patch or change coming just around the corner that would surely make everyone think differently.

See what I'm saying?
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Yes, and I am completely on board with that. They have stated that alpha is supposed to start by the end of 2015. Nobody should get indefinite credibility, and if people are still saying "Alpha is just around the corner" after delay after delay, they are the ones that have lost objectivity and should be very worried. Likewise, if the team has another big shake up/massive turnover again, that is definite cause for alarm and a major loss of confidence.

hodj_sl said:
My only point here is this community is pretty old, and it feels like we've seen all that before. There just isn't much evidence to justify being super optimistic about this project at this point, regardless of the potential progress they may or may not have made.
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I think cautious optimism is a much more defensible position here, which should be reevaluated as more information comes available and majorly reevaluated once/if alpha comes. And I fully agree with you about the industry just flopping around. I would be ecstatic to see some niche markets develop and be successful
 
BoozeCube

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While Convo and Faux probably just think they are being optimistic about this project, the rest of us see it as niavety. I get it, we all love an underdog story and you want your 1000-1 odds bet on Pantheon to pay off. But seriously take a step back and look at what this dumpster fire of a project really is... It's vaporware in it's purest form, fuck it's the blue meth of vaporware.

The snide comments some of us make from time to time isn't just because we are jaded gamers. It's because any goodwill this project started with was pissed away with the lies, fraud, theft, and bullshit that Brad himself was the center of. When that combination is the foundation of your project how can you expect anything different later on? I have to say I am impressed that people still willingly drink the Cool-Aid and believe in this project, it takes some serious mental gymnastics to pull that off.

rrr_img_107020.jpg
 
LachiusTZ

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Do the people brad never paid, stole from etc, have any legal rights if this does start to take off?

Could be some funny drama if so.
 
Faux

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LachiusTZ_sl said:
Do the people brad never paid, stole from etc, have any legal rights if this does start to take off?
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That would probably be next to impossible to prove, so I highly doubt it. As an aside, I think a few of them have returned to the team.
 
zzeris

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Booze has the right of it and obviously some on here must never visit ANY of the other threads on this site. We do that everywhere. What exactly has this game done differently than EQN? Maybe, those EQN developers are 'focusing on 'quality over quantity' as well? Just as likely of a pipe dream. There is no defensible position for a 'game' where the originator has such a sordid history since he started this project much less before. The Faux viewpoint is no more valid just because you say it is. I say the moon is made of fucking cheese. Who cares about previous facts, right?Yeah, to be completely kool-aid, some of those guys seem to be working to make a game. That's the end of defensible. Good luck to them and we hope they succeed.

What is Brad going to do after they finish their work if they ever do? This is an arrogant cocksucker who has no qualms with theft, destroying his own people's lives, and just driving off into the sunset. The reason Brad could be less visible is because it's summer and he's just driving around on his bike. Possible and likely? Sure is. People has less faith because Brad is the guy behind this project. Brad is the guy who has his name plastered over it. Brad is the guy who will take credit(previous history). Brad is the guy who would take the money and drop these guys like offal if he wants. It's his company, his rules. Let's not forget the facts here. Look at the Facebook about page. Sure is a lot of Brad on that.

The Scorpion and the Frog - Wikipedia, the free encyclopediaWhen Joppa looks back and asks Brad why..." Because I'm a Brad, why would you expect different from me?"
 
Abefroman

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I think most of the comedy comes from Brad fans parachuting into the EQN thread and talking about doom and gloom and omg they layed someone off! Then Pantheon posts a screenshot and it's "OMG THINGS ARE FULL ON DEVELOPMENT MODE!" Both games are pretty much vaporware, the difference is EQN might actually have funding but will most likely be nothing like it was supposed to be due to the foundation of storybricks getting blown up. I don't care how good the tools of Unity are, these games require a good sized development team and top notch engineers to work.
 
Convo

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hodj_sl said:
Dude he's the head of the entire project.

He's also the most well known, and most controversial member, and also the guy who bollocksed up the kickstarter campaign from the get go, mis managed, and outright stole funds for the project.
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Co-head, Joppa and Brad are equals.
 
hodj

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Convo_sl said:
Co-head, Joppa and Brad are equals.
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Who is the CEO/Owner of the company?

Because as long as its Brad, he is the top dog, regardless if he says he and this other guy are equals or not.

One can still fire the other in the parking lot.
 
Faux

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zzeris_sl said:
Who cares about previous facts, right? Yeah, to be completely kool-aid, some of those guys seem to be working to make a game. That's the end of defensible. Good luck to them and we hope they succeed.
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I have never said people should not consider previous facts. My post was directed at the people who refuse to introduce any new facts into their worldview, such as the current team (the 20 odd people in addition to Brad) being stable for the last year and making tangible progress as evidenced by screenshots and streaming of their zone building, etc... Those people are fixated on Brad's past and unwilling to admit that 20 other people are associated with the project and they are generating something towards an actual game or that Brad is not in charge of the money (ostensibly) anymore. I am not claiming that the game will release and all will be rainbows and unicorns for the mmo industry. I have no idea if it will release or even reach alpha. I've said my bit on this, so I will retreat to lurking again.

Edit: I guess I can't definitively say that Brad is not the CEO. There is a Chairman listed above him and Brad's title is Chief Creative Director, so who knows what that means.
 
zzeris

zzeris

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Convo_sl said:
Co-head, Joppa and Brad are equals.
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But that's a load of horseshit. Joppa is the 'chairman'. WTF is that? Is he and Mao running the empire? That's the position on a board of directors.

Visionary Realms, Inc. in Vista CA - Company ProfileI don't see Joppa anywhere on that do you? When push comes to shove, we all know who had final say. Let's not get retarded here.

Edit- exactly, hodj. Let's put this shit to bed.

Faux, I agree to a point but the bottom line is this is Brad's baby and so these other viewpoints will stay valid. I really, really wish Joppa and the rest of those guys success. At the same time, I am certain who will take credit and destroy this project if possible. The 'visionary' of visionaries, Braddy Boy.
 
zzeris

zzeris

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hodj_sl said:
I forsee Joppa, in a parking lot, sometime in the middle of 2016, with a pink slip in his hand, while Brad is in his office, chomping down on a handful of vicodin and following it with some grade A tequila.

IRT Faux: Brad is the President of the company. He is King Kong here.
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Vicodin and tequila has always been the ambrosia of visionaries. You can't expect these stalwarts of gaming development to consume the regular fare of chairmen can you? Bah, humbug!!
 
Convo

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I should say co-lead. Better terminology.

Brad doesn't touch the money. That's the other Chris(not Joppa). He handles the buisness and finances.
 
BoozeCube

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Co-Leader, President, CEO, Head DoucheCunt, the titles don't really matter.. Who has controlling ownership of Visionary realms is the only thing that matters at the end of the day. While we might not know who has what % of what. I can say with 99.9% confidence that the team of 20 suckers he rounded up don't have 50% and it's very likely they have 0%. All the promises in the world wont stop Captain Vicoden's Parkinglot Adventure in the end.
 
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