Pan'Theon: Rise' of th'e Fal'Len - #1 Thread in MMO

Korrupt said:

Poor EQ and DBG.

Whatever state this game releases in there will be raiders who come just to decimate the raid content and move on. Same exact thing we all did with WoW raiders in Vanguard and Rift, people love fresh games and starts mostly just for the competition aspect even if its unpolished.

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a small minority of the players will decimated it, 99 percent of everyone else will not. As long as they have shit to do outside of fucking quest hubs, im all for it. I loved eq's AA's and camping rare spawns, outside of raiding, i had a blast playing with my friends who were not in raiding guilds just helping them get good gear and fucking off with them after hours.

Arden said:

From a personal perspective I think Brad slighted this community who wanted nothing more than to help him and wish him the best in this endeavor.
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I think this was true right until he shit out this screenshot to main video game news sites:



and basically proved what a fucking worthless scam job he was running.

Arden said:

Lol please, tell that to someone new to the boards. Anyone that has been around since the old fohguild days knows that anything Brad does brings about a 50/50 split of people that want to worship him and people who want to crucify him.

For every Convo defending him there's a Twobit Whore on the other side attacking him like it's their job (which I think it actually was in Twobit's case).

This board has never been a fountain of goodwill and happy feelings for that dude-- nor should it be. He has his own boards for that. This board has its sycophants and its haters, but the one good thing you can say about it is that it's probably the one place you can get a reasonably legitimate and informed opinion about his projects.

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Of course there were a few (correct) naysayers right from the start, but the majority was positive. This almost instantly turned into literally 100% negativity when the Kickstarters was going and 1. Brad stopped posting here 2. He made massive mistakes on the Kickstarter that everyone warned him about 3. This is gonna rawk!

KCXIV said:

a small minority of the players will decimated it, 99 percent of everyone else will not. As long as they have shit to do outside of fucking quest hubs, im all for it. I loved eq's AA's and camping rare spawns, outside of raiding, i had a blast playing with my friends who were not in raiding guilds just helping them get good gear and fucking off with them after hours.

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^^^
Probably most here have a somewhat skewed perspective as present or former mmo hardcores, but it doesn't represent the average player. Even if Pantheon does attract a higher than normal amount of that sort of player, they will still be a small segment of the playerbase.

The goal should be to keep the normal players occupied by a longer, more challenging and engaging leveling process with more stuff to achieve and collect. If the game isn't raid focused and a lot of progression depends on group content that isn't always readily available (meaning rare content, not instanced), it will keep a lot of people playing the way EQ did.

I know it's unpopular to suggest, but if players have to really work to get levels and items, and even raid content is contested and not guaranteed every time you log in, most players will endure to be among that exclusive group. That exclusivity is what set EQ apart and made it EverCrack.

Yes, people will inevitably complain about not being able to do certain things or get items in what they deem a reasonable time frame, but the alternative is being like every other game and letting everyone have everything, regardless of their skill level, guild choice, in-game decisions, or time devotion. That may bring more in, but it also makes player retention impossible.

Ive heard the "too busy" argument before, multiple times. Truth is if you enjoy the game, you'll make time for it. Bunch of people here said theyre too busy for MMO's but I saw plenty of them poop socking it up when Legion first came out.

I think Dullahan is right on the money. The leveling process should be slow. I think the best scenario is about 250 hours of grind time to max level which will have players moving around exploring and trying out multiple zones in each level range as well as experimenting with quests and tradeskills to break up that grind.

With 250 hours your average player will reach max level in about 90-120 days if they play daily. This assumes an average of 4 hour sessions with LFG time, travel and some bs inbetween.

On the other end, hardcore players will see cap in 10 - 13 days.

Daidraco said:

Ive heard the "too busy" argument before, multiple times. Truth is if you enjoy the game, you'll make time for it. Bunch of people here said theyre too busy for MMO's but I saw plenty of them poop socking it up when Legion first came out.

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Almost posted something similar this morning. I started playing on agnarr with the intentions of just getting a nostalgia hit and then playing super casual because I didn't think I had time for anything more. Ended up having too much fun and here I am 5 months later with like 550 raid targets under my belt.

Just make it fun, god dammit. Too many focus groups, spread sheets, and balancing patches have ruined the MMO landscape. I'd love to find a game where it's just the way the developers wanted it to be, and just leave it the fuck alone.

Zaide said:

I think Dullahan is right on the money. The leveling process should be slow. I think the best scenario is about 250 hours of grind time to max level which will have players moving around exploring and trying out multiple zones in each level range as well as experimenting with quests and tradeskills to break up that grind.

With 250 hours your average player will reach max level in about 90-120 days if they play daily. This assumes an average of 4 hour sessions with LFG time, travel and some bs inbetween.

On the other end, hardcore players will see cap in 10 - 13 days.

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250 hours is on the low side, but you can only make it as long as the amount of content you can provide, so that may be a realistic number. I'd hope for closer to 500 without excessive grinding. The longer, the better. That will discourage some players, but it gives players time to become invested in their character, other players and the world.

There needs to be lots and lots of content at all level ranges if the level grind is slow. I can't imagine leveling 50 levels at snail pace if all the content is like camping SF zone in Overthere.

Tradeskills, lots of dungeons, all that stuff. If there ever is a point where I have to say "well, need to get five more levels now before I can advance my character by other means again", the leveling pace can't be slow.

KCXIV said:

Sillius is back at daybreak i think.

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Nope. He's back at Cryptic.

If Brad and company can get the gameplay to the point where you're not simply staring at your XP bar, and randomly mashing buttons until something dies, then he'll have a winner. So long as each class feels useful, it'll work.

ZyyzYzzy said:

Some of us aren't single, familyless losers with other obligations and demanding careers?

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Then maybe becoming one of the fallen isn't for you?

Elidroth said:

If Brad and company can get the gameplay to the point where you're not simply staring at your XP bar, and randomly mashing buttons until something dies, then he'll have a winner. So long as each class feels useful, it'll work.

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I've always thought this would be pretty easy to accomplish.

MOB telegraphs X ability type -> class Y has a counter -> class Z has ability that triggers a synergistic effect when class Y uses counter.

The synergized effects just have to be rewarding enough (DPS, regen) in XP gain efficiency so that players feel compelled to pay attention to when to use them.

ZyyzYzzy said:

Maybe in 15 years when the game finally comes out I'll have more free time

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By the time this comes out you will be retired and we will be playing this in adult diapers in the rest home so it's fine.

Become one of the fallen, break a hip.

Elidroth said:

If Brad and company can get the gameplay to the point where you're not simply staring at your XP bar, and randomly mashing buttons until something dies, then he'll have a winner. So long as each class feels useful, it'll work.

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I saw on the VGO emu that AA was worked on but never released, did you design the AA system based off of EQ's or was it something of your own design?