Pan'Theon: Rise' of th'e Fal'Len - #1 Thread in MMO

iannis

iannis

Musty Nester
31,351
17,656
I'd go more with a busqing analogy than a gambling analogy. At this point Brad should open a P99 "totally not everquest" server and charge 5 bucks a month.

Seriously. He'd come out better.

Plus... he could put it in a browser. And all they really even fucking want is everquest. He's got at least 1-2 thousand people left willing to throw a little bit of money at him... I mean that's not nothin'.
 
ZyyzYzzy

ZyyzYzzy

RIP USA
<Banned>
25,295
48,789
Muligan_sl said:
They are backing it because they can justify the money. It is no different that gambling in a sense. If you can look in your wallet and say, "I don't care to lose X bucks for a good time and potential return." then why not? We may not get a game out of it but then again we might. Believe me, we've hashed this game out every way possible. There's a lot that does not make sense and a lot that needs clarified but, i'm sure people are just looking at this and understanding they've given to worse in the MMO industry.

If you give $45, you get a box copy so what is there to lose? I've bought games that have been less enjoyable than merely talking about Pantheon. I was going to give $150 but right now i'm sitting back at $45. We'll see how it works out but right now, I see no reason to not throw the price of a box copy at Brad just because of EQ. Plus, if you give, it gives you some entitlement to speak your mind. :p
Click to expand...
Except it shouldn't be viewed as a gamble because the real investors who are going to fund it won't be looking at it as one. If they were serious and passionate about the game and want it to be made more should have been done before asking people for money.

You will lose your money and get zero return on it, that is what there is to lose. Not only that but you will be thrownig money away on people and a project that should have been done correctly and successful if due diligence was done.
 
M

Merlin_sl

shitlord
2,329
1
Jimbolini_sl said:
All this talk of roller coasters made me miss RCT.

rrr_img_58492.jpg
Click to expand...
That and Civ2. WOW, the amount of time I spend in those two would rival my EQ days.
 
M

Merlin_sl

shitlord
2,329
1
Utnayan_sl said:
This is hilarious.

I love how people are asking questions, Brad answers a few based on how EQ was (EQ also had long spawn times with some random placed mobs of where they would pop based on the PH table), generalizes even that answer, and ...

There is no design doc. All the answers are fly by the night and have no foundation, because... wait... *There is no design document*

This is starting to remind me of the facepalms seen around the world last night with American Horror Story's Coven season Finale.
Click to expand...
Not sure I agree with you here. Think of it like creating an album. Take Nirvanas Nevermind or Gn'R's Appetite for Destruction. Fan are like, "Hey, give me another one of those albums". So its really pretty easy, theres not much to doing what you've already done. Make a grungy heavy album with good riffs and street metal music. But a few of the people here want to know the most ridiculous details right down which notes will follow which notes, and what equipment they will use. "Are you going to use Marshall stacks? Will you use a crybaby wah? Are you going to use your Gibson Les Paul or the newer guitar you used for "Use Your Illusion"? Are you going to record it in LA or Canada?". You don't need to ask every little detail that ever existed for either band to record a new album. I'm pretty sure they know what they are doing after 20 years in the industry. People are off the chain ridiculous with the requests for every fucking detail right down to what fucking underwear is he wearing.
 
Lasch

Lasch

Trakanon Raider
1,514
720
Dropped from the 375 to the 250 lifetime sub but kept the same pledge for 20 bank space, 20 starter pack, 25 hero essence, 30 backpack expander, 30 sprinter's boots. Then threw in another 5 for the Headstart.

Not sure how I feel about the addons to be honest. Somewhat disturbing... Hopefully the crap won't really do much in game.

And wtf is a hero essence template anyway?
 
Utnayan

Utnayan

F16 patrolling Rajaah until he plays DS3
<Gold Donor>
16,314
12,083
Merlin_sl said:
Not sure I agree with you here. Think of it like creating an album. Take Nirvanas Nevermind or Gn'R's Appetite for Destruction. Fan are like, "Hey, give me another one of those albums". So its really pretty easy, theres not much to doing what you've already done. Make a grungy heavy album with good riffs and street metal music. But a few of the people here want to know the most ridiculous details right down which notes will follow which notes, and what equipment they will use. "Are you going to use Marshall stacks? Will you use a crybaby wah? Are you going to use your Gibson Les Paul or the newer guitar you used for "Use Your Illusion"? Are you going to record it in LA or Canada?". You don't need to ask every little detail that ever existed for either band to record a new album. I'm pretty sure they know what they are doing after 20 years in the industry. People are off the chain ridiculous with the requests for every fucking detail right down to what fucking underwear is he wearing.
Click to expand...
No offense to you
smile.png
But I hate these analogies.

Making games isn't Mcdonalds, it isn't buying a used car, it isn't making music, it isn't fine dining at a restaurant, or whatever else we want to compare it too.

It's having a detailed plan which targets a market base * after * the creativity and design document has been created laying a framework for timelines, milestones, features, even planned for mild deviations. And this is just to build a tech demo to show a publisher before getting backing. None of this has been done. And even the last time it *was* done, we saw 30 million blown due to mismanagement caused by McQuaid and the team he selected in the first place. Now, I do not say this to bash him. I say it because *He is not a business man - he is a game designer.* This entire kickstarter rollout shows that absolutely nothing has been learned on that front, and I wouldn't expect him too. The problem now lies in the fact that he doesn't even have the design document done. He cannot even be asked to do the work for the kickstarter crowd other than throw around EQ Nostalgia without ANY plan whatsoever on how to deliver the game once/if it ever gets funded in the first place. And we have all seen what happens to the games that build as they fly.

Now let me cash in on that gambling analogy (Pun intended). If I walk into vegas and lay money down on a game, I know what the odds are. That doesn't mean I am going to walk face first into a room filled with the Russian Mafia playing Texas Hold Em and get shot the first time no one calls my bluff.
 
ZyyzYzzy

ZyyzYzzy

RIP USA
<Banned>
25,295
48,789
Merlin_sl said:
Not sure I agree with you here. Think of it like creating an album. Take Nirvanas Nevermind or Gn'R's Appetite for Destruction. Fan are like, "Hey, give me another one of those albums". So its really pretty easy, theres not much to doing what you've already done. Make a grungy heavy album with good riffs and street metal music. But a few of the people here want to know the most ridiculous details right down which notes will follow which notes, and what equipment they will use. "Are you going to use Marshall stacks? Will you use a crybaby wah? Are you going to use your Gibson Les Paul or the newer guitar you used for "Use Your Illusion"? Are you going to record it in LA or Canada?". You don't need to ask every little detail that ever existed for either band to record a new album. I'm pretty sure they know what they are doing after 20 years in the industry. People are off the chain ridiculous with the requests for every fucking detail right down to what fucking underwear is he wearing.
Click to expand...
God awful analogy for one. Brad doesn't have the best track record. Also, as stated before the individuals/companies investing money in amounts to see the game made will want all the basic information of which there seems to be very little.
 
G

Graye_sl

shitlord
47
0
They're replacing the horrific intro vid finally. Reserving judgment intil the new one is up.

Edit: ahh Ben just said they were replacing it with the Curse interview
 
DickTrickle

DickTrickle

Definitely NOT Furor Planedefiler
12,980
14,886
Based on what he's said about Hero Essences, the fact they're being given away is totally a P2W thing.
 
M

Merlin_sl

shitlord
2,329
1
zzeris_sl said:
I think judging EQN by a video that is almost 6 months old isn't doing the game justice. I also think there are a lot of people that won't try something just because. Honestly, I think that's pretty small minded. With Storybricks and the rest of the innovative approaches they are using, the game may well end up being very difficult. Because... EQ wasn't. Once you learned the system, it was easy in most places. I also applaud EQN for trying to change things up instead of relying on the formulaic trinity system of today. One game is moving forward, the other can't even get supporters to fund the past. No offense to Brad, but Ponytail kicks his ass at organizational skills. And those would have come in handy the past few months.
Click to expand...
Just....lol.

Here is some other games that "moved forward",
  • Shadowbane
  • Age of Conan
  • Star Wars Galaxies
  • Warhammer
  • City of Heroes
  • Tabula Rasa
  • Aion
  • Rift
  • Guild Wars 2
  • LotR Online

Shall I continue? But yes, please. Let us continue making games that attempt to cater to everyone, giving them everything, making them work for nothing all in a vain attempt to unseat WOW. Let us change things up some more because hey, its gonna work this time right?
 
G

Gecko_sl

shitlord
1,482
0
Merlin_sl said:
I'm pretty sure they know what they are doing after 20 years in the industry. People are off the chain ridiculous with the requests for every fucking detail right down to what fucking underwear is he wearing.
Click to expand...
Right now all they are doing is copying Shroud of the Avatar's Kickstarter and editing it to fit EQ vs UO, and doing a ton of interviews. Granted, that's far better than their terrible day 1 Kickstarter that had... nothing.

I'm sure they know how to design games. I'm sure they know how to create art. However, when asking for funds, is it to much to ask for a detailed design document instead of 500 youtube interviews with a ton of generic answers. For reference, see this:

Kingdom Come: Deliverance by Warhorse Studios Kickstarter

For fuck sake, Jacobs and Garriot's Kickstarters were funded and both setup nicely, with external links to pages with teams and timelines and relevant game info. Is it too much to ask before you request hundreds of thousands that you actually do a little bit of work and actually have something to sell besides your resume? Just copy what your peers have already done.
 
Hateyou

Hateyou

Not Great, Not Terrible
<Bronze Donator>
16,353
42,505
Subs and micro transactions? Well, I just totally lost interest. I don't think it will ever be made anyways, but that's a shit business model.
 
Soygen

Soygen

The Dirty Dozen For the Price of One
<Nazi Janitors>
28,326
43,170
Hateyou_sl said:
Subs and micro transactions? Well, I just totally lost interest. I don't think it will ever be made anyways, but that's a shit business model.
Click to expand...
To be fair, it doesn't really seem like they have any idea how you'll pay for playing. They just keep randomly adding more and more things, seemingly without a strategy.
 
M

Merlin_sl

shitlord
2,329
1
ZyyzYzzy_sl said:
God awful analogy for one. Brad doesn't have the best track record. Also, as stated before the individuals/companies investing money in amounts to see the game made will want all the basic information of which there seems to be very little.
Click to expand...
Its only a bad analogy if you have no idea about music, which understandably, you don't. But its the exact same thing. Listing out all the details to create a game you've already done really isn't that difficult. Brad has answered hundreds and hundreds of questions and its so repetitive at this point, he is repeating the answers he has already given dozens of times now. Yet people still claim they do not know enough. At this point, your either 1. a supporter, 2. A supporter who is actively trying to help Brad clean up the Kickstarter, or 3. Someone who never intends to pledge or support the project, but enjoys trolling acting as if he really just isn't sure but Brad answers 791 more questions, they will consider it.
 
T

Troy_Costisick_sl

shitlord
437
0
DickTrickle_sl said:
Yeah, don't refute that or anything. Hero Essences increase in game power. You're paying to get them. How is that not pay to win?
Click to expand...
The game has got to get funded. For the 200 or so people who do that, they'll find something better in the game anyway after six months or so and it won't even matter. After the first year, no one will even remember it happened. The game has to get funded.
 
zzeris

zzeris

King Turd of Shit Hill
<Gold Donor>
18,936
73,937
Merlin_sl said:
Here is some other games that "moved forward",
  • Shadowbane
  • Age of Conan
  • Star Wars Galaxies
  • Warhammer
  • City of Heroes
  • Tabula Rasa
  • Aion
  • Rift
  • Guild Wars 2
  • LotR Online

Shall I continue? But yes, please. Let us continue making games that attempt to cater to everyone, giving them everything, making them work for nothing all in a vain attempt to unseat WOW. Let us change things up some more because hey, its gonna work this time right?
Click to expand...
Merlin, glad to see consistently bad posts no matter what forum you decide to follow. Did you play all of those games? Do you know what they were trying to accomplish, their flaws, or anything about them honestly? Or are you just painting with a broad brush like you do in the politics thread without any forethought or any real relevant point? You do know the only old EQ type games still around are EMUs right? Even the original game has moved forward? Do you know that no publisher has tried to make EQ again at all? I bet you know absolutely nothing about EQN. I bet you never played the games you just mentioned. Acting like a font of knowledge as you sit there in complete ignorance. Par for the course.
 
DickTrickle

DickTrickle

Definitely NOT Furor Planedefiler
12,980
14,886
Troy_Costisick_sl said:
The game has got to get funded. For the 200 or so people who do that, they'll find something better in the game anyway after six months or so and it won't even matter. After the first year, no one will even remember it happened. The game has to get funded.
Click to expand...
Sure, say it's necessary, just don't say it's not P2W. It could be a big power improvement or not, can't say without more details, but it's still P2W.

Surprised there's no exp potions yet.

Edit: Does seem to be helping. Nearly 9K today and it's only 9am CST. Very few new backers so it's people adding in.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.