Pan'Theon: Rise' of th'e Fal'Len - #1 Thread in MMO

Grim1

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
4,864
6,821
Pretty clear at this point if this gets funded it will have one of the highest avg $ per backer of any KS.

Really it's gonna rest on how badly some people with a lot of money to burn want this. Gonna need a really big boost at the end. So I wish brad would make up some good 1k+ tiers.
It's been said before, but apparently some of you missed it. Kickstarter campaigns get most of their funding in the beginning and the end. Especially at the end.

10 days ago it seemed kind of iffy, but now it looks like they will get funded. Assuming they get the last minute burst that other campaigns get.
 

gogojira_sl

shitlord
2,202
3
It's been said before, but apparently some of you missed it. Kickstarter campaigns get most of their funding in the beginning and the end. Especially at the end.

10 days ago it seemed kind of iffy, but now it looks like they will get funded. Assuming they get the last minute burst that other campaigns get.
People are obsessing over the average needed to be funded and I understand that it's going to be close, but it's still making progress which is more than what can be said for Kickstarters with no chance. I think the last minute surge is going to far eclipse the opening two days. New pledgers are going to bump it, too, but the people that want Pantheon to happenreallywant Pantheon to happen and are going to start throwing more money at it, raising that average pledge amount even higher.
 

LFG_sl

shitlord
28
0
exactly my point. what if instead of making curb your enthusiasm with the money/reputation that larry david made creating seinfeld, he instead decided to have the people who watched seinfeld pay to make his new show for him? think that would have worked? i doubt it.
Well that's exactly what happened.. HBO paid for it. A Larry David kickstarter would have been funded in minutes with the promise of physical media though.

Everquest was never super mainstream so Brad needs a sugar-daddy like Arrested Development got with Netflix. Maybe if he sells his soul to Lord British...
 

BoozeCube

Von Clippowicz
<Prior Amod>
48,287
283,543
Serious. Boozecube, you have said the same "oh brad raped my wife" rap for 400 pages. Get over it you bed wetting homo.
You obviously cant read for shit. Maybe remove your head from your asshole and contribute something.. look at your post history it's complete horseshit either sucking on the Pantheon cock or bitching about other posters.. You are Jack's bleeding vagina.
 

Nemesis

Bridgeburner
1,191
628
...At least they appear to be learning.
*improved*

rrr_img_59126.jpg
 

mkopec

<Gold Donor>
25,416
37,524
Ive read somewhere that over its life, EQ had something like a million unique people which played it. Now whether 500K quit before they were LV5 could be debated. But nevertheless there should be plenty of peeps to draw upon. At least 100K that LOVED it.
 

Aeiouy_sl

shitlord
217
0
Ive read somewhere that over its life, EQ had something like a million unique people which played it. Now whether 500K quit before they were LV5 could be debated. But nevertheless there should be plenty of peeps to draw upon. At least 100K that LOVED it.
Yeah but It takes a level greater than love. Plus a lot of people have moved on from that kind of gaming or are happy in other games. They don't obsess about the glory days of eq. In fact given how wow jizzed all over everything it could be fair to believe most people felt inhibited and held back by eq and would have zero interest in going back.

At this point the is and further campaign needs to move past just living on the laurels of eq and the ideas of vanguard and instead live and die on what pantheon is going to be.

Claiming it will be like old school eq is not even accurate as it will likely be less like old school eq than like it. By the way I consider old school eq year 1, pre kunark. That was by far the most unique era of eq by a huge margin. And not to knock people who did not get that experience but it was way different than playing in velious or pop or even kunark. Sometimes reading posts about people talking about old school hardcore eq I am not even convinced they played the game during that first year. That was some crazy shit. By the time kunark launched the toothpaste was all the way out of the tube.

I do hope they can put together enough like minded players to give this game a shot. I am on board. And personally I can't wait for the forums where players bitching goes from an mmo 12 to an mmo 19 because "they paid to make the game." I hope the future pantheon community manager has a strong constitution.
 

Aeiouy_sl

shitlord
217
0
No shit man. Also, it's a waste of time and resources, building all that tutorial nonsense into the game. KEEP IT SIMPLE! Go back to basics. Let the good players figure things out first, and distinguish themselves from the pack. Everything saved on training wheel features can be allocated to adding content and filling the world with little details and polish.

If new players need help, they can ask other players who've figured it out, or take the time to figure it out on their own. If they're really at a loss, there are sure to be plenty of websites filled with info for them. All this hand holding is ruining what were once major allures of MMOs: Mystery, discovery, and fear of the unknown.
This reminds me of something daoc had. Which I think was a question queue and you could sign up to answer questions. Then when a newbie had a question a more experienced player who has specifically volunteered to help could give them guidance
 

Fubarbox_sl

shitlord
84
0
I think I read somewhere earlier that Pantheon will only have one starting city. Is it possible that as we go along, different cities may be discovered as more of the fractured worlds that make up Pantheon are discovered? That way eventually we may have more than one starting area? Good, bad?
 

popsicledeath

Potato del Grande
7,479
11,727
I think I read somewhere earlier that Pantheon will only have one starting city. Is it possible that as we go along, different cities may be discovered as more of the fractured worlds that make up Pantheon are discovered? That way eventually we may have more than one starting area? Good, bad?
I kinda want one starting/main city, and the other cities are actually NPC cities you have to gain faction in or conquer to use. It would make regional markets more interesting. Maybe make it so items from outside a region have a huge tax compared to items sold in a region, so you conquer a city as a guild or gain enough faction by conquering the cities enemies and you're able to put items up on that market, and then other players have a reason to travel there, earn respect for that city enough they can use that market.

Unless we actually think they're going to have the balls to do a no AH, EC tunnel sort of system. I'm saying they don't.
 

Big Flex

Fitness Fascist
4,314
3,166
ive thought long and hard on this one, and ive come to the conclusion that less newbie areas is better.

not cities. newbie areas.

leveling alone in innothule, or watching tumbleweeds blow by the fp gate sucks dick. one time i leveled an erudite sk to like fifteen in tox and saw one other person in that entire process.

more than one, because districts is like an excuse not to design. two, one good and one evil is just lazy. three is key. channel nubs into a field of bone, crushbone, and a blackburrow.

three.
 

Whidon

Blackwing Lair Raider
1,880
2,906
People are obsessing over the average needed to be funded and I understand that it's going to be close, but it's still making progress which is more than what can be said for Kickstarters with no chance. I think the last minute surge is going to far eclipse the opening two days. New pledgers are going to bump it, too, but the people that want Pantheon to happenreallywant Pantheon to happen and are going to start throwing more money at it, raising that average pledge amount even higher.
Problem is, even if it picks up some it's going to require quite a last minute boost. like 250-300k. Thats a TON of money.
 

Arctic_Slicer_sl

shitlord
155
0
The proc rate at 255 dex was 2 per minute main hand, 1 per minute off hand before AAs and combat effects. Hitting max dex shouldn't have been a problem with shaman+ench buffs and generic raid gear.
2 per minute for main and 1 per minute for off hand was at 305-404 dex. 205-304 dex was just 1.5 main hand and .75 off hand. Pre-Pop it was not possible to have more than 255 dex and therefor not more than 1.5 procs a minute in the main hand with the exception of Bloodfrenzy and a couple of other specific weapons.

You underestimate the hate generated from procs. There was no real hate proc on 2h weapons until the Blade of War, making the 3 procs per minute (or more in the case of the bloodfrenzy) dual wield setups more hate over time than 2handers until the BoW. In fact, bloodfrenzy setups were still more hate over time than the BoW was, but the advantage was small making BoWs superior for the DPS and fewer ripostes. Raid boss fights in EQ were very long; waiting 20 seconds for a hate proc wasn't a big deal when some fights lasted literally half an hour. Of course in exp scenarios, slowers had to wait before casting instead of slowing immediately when using knight tanks, but in fairness knights did need to have some advantages over a warrior, else why pick one? I did however make a paladin instead of a warrior on eqmac.
The warrior 2 handed epic as well as Gaudralek from the Temple of Veeshan both had hate procs on them. The problem with proc weapons pre-PoP is that proc rates were so low for all but a couple of weapons(IE Bloodfrenzy) that they were unreliable. Sometimes a Blade of Carnage would proc 8 times in a row and you'd be able to hold hate like a champ other times it wouldn't proc at all for several minutes and make holding aggro a pain; two handed weapons were much more consistent in how much aggro they generated which made them far easier to manage. AAs introduced in Shadows of Luclin such as Flurry and Double Riposte also further helped out two handed weapons since flurry and riposte are abilities that only happen with your primary weapon. When you get into Planes of Power; the dex cap goes up to 305 which allows 2 procs per minute in the main hand and 1 proc per minute which provides a nice boost to dual wielding. Bloodfrenzy is an awesome weapon, between it's generous +55% proc rate and it's meaty riposte mod; it was a very good weapon for generating hate. However like you said even though it might have been the best hate it wasn't the best weapon in many situations since getting riposted by the mobs was a problem that was best dealt with by wielding a good two hander like blade of war.

You act like 2h hate generation was some big secret-- as if non-tanking warriors weren't using 2h for the dps while the MT used procing 1handers. The hate advantage only grew larger when adding extra procs from augs, symbol of the planesmasters buff, weapon affinity AAs and combat effects. Darkblade + EoE blew away the BoW if you had any proc rate modifiers. I was the only warrior I knew that geared for hate generation first, above ac and above hp, and I had a proc rate of 12 per minute. My guild stopped worrying about low health summoning because my hate was so high that it overtook the flat modifier for low health aggro.
I don't disagree with this statement however the original conversation was framed in the the context of end game Luclin where dex capped at a mere 255 and where there was no augs, weapon affinity aas or combat effects stat. With the dex cap increase and the introduction of the combat effects stat in Planes of Power, the introduction of anger augs in Lost Dungeons of Norrath, weapon affinity aas in Gates of Discord and Slippery attacks aas in Omens of War that once at rank 5 removed all chances of being riposted with your secondary weapon; it became a totally different game that greatly favored dual wielding. You really can't compare Shadows of Luclin to Omens of War when it comes to how to play a warrior and generate hate since the circumstances were very very different.



I think most of us can agree with this. If anything, knight aggro was too high, not that warrior aggro was too low. Why should spamming a very non-threatening level 9 spell make mobs hate the knight so much?
I was always okay with knights being able to generate hate better. Just as you said earlier; higher hate generation was their bonus for giving up the extra hp/mitigation of the warrior.
 

Mr Creed

Too old for this shit
2,380
276
It's not even 5 levels of teaching, it just removes, as I pointed out, the need to create a dozen starter zones in the real world that just take up space.
What did you learn at West Freeport gate again? How to bash the decaying skeleton over its head and loot a bone chip. After that, the zone was just travel space for you.
Rush the players through levels 1-5, give them the skills for their class and once they leave the training island, it's group time. I don't see why it has to be like current MMOs either. Fact is most players only stay at the first few levels for a very short time, then move on. If you have a starting area for each race or whatever, that makes it extremly rare to see other players in your starting area once the game is out for a few months.
Matter of opinion I guess, not everyone interested in this game expects the same features.

I loathe the directed teaching experience you have in pretty much all games these days. These things arent rocket surgery. As for newbie areas, I've said several times I want them to build a world. The vicinity of Kaladim and the roads being safer then the rest of butcherblock makes sense. If this was just a grouping game they could do it GW1 style without a full world, and every square having a predefined purpose in the experience. I'm sure lots of folks would enjoy that, but it wouldnt be a game for me.

so what do we do about the ghost town phenomenon that most newbie zones are in EQ now such as Everfrost, Feerroott, Nektulos Forest, Misty Thicket, Qeynos, Steamfont?

if you don't start in FP or Gfay as a newbie, you must think you're the only person playing.
Design those zones with all that in mind. An example from EQ would be how lively EC was because players created a trade hub there. Have important NPCs/resources around that mid/high level need to talk to or want to fight. Have less levels (say 20) where the newbie areas and mid-level areas are interwoven (bonus: griffons, sand giants and sons of Arugal for all!). A raid target at the shrine to the God of War maybe. They're asking for enough money that I expect them to figure out solutions instead of taking lazy shortcuts.
 

iannis

Musty Nester
31,351
17,656
ive thought long and hard on this one, and ive come to the conclusion that less newbie areas is better.

not cities. newbie areas.

leveling alone in innothule, or watching tumbleweeds blow by the fp gate sucks dick. one time i leveled an erudite sk to like fifteen in tox and saw one other person in that entire process.

more than one, because districts is like an excuse not to design. two, one good and one evil is just lazy. three is key. channel nubs into a field of bone, crushbone, and a blackburrow.

three.
Three is the number, and the number shall be three. Two is one less than what is required and four is only the second multiple of two -- which is not in any sense three.

Neither shall the number be one, nor five.

But six is the number of the beast of many vaporwares and is to not be for a moment considered.

Three is the number.

Three is best.
 

Graye_sl

shitlord
47
0
This kickstarter is not the end-all be-all for Pantheon.

If VRI is smart, the moment the Kickstarter ends, they'll have a donation system set up on their main page, with better laid out tiers and listed milestones.

Citadel of Sorcery's Kickstarter failed dismally. They're still going at it two years later.

I don't see why everyone is hinging on Kictstarter being the catalyst that will make or break Pantheon.

I personally believe it would be easier for more people(and they would be more willing) to part with $10.00-$20.00/month to reach higher tiers than potentially dropping a large chunk all at once.
 

Vandyn

Blackwing Lair Raider
3,655
1,381
This kickstarter is not the end-all be-all for Pantheon.

If VRI is smart, the moment the Kickstarter ends, they'll have a donation system set up on their main page, with better laid out tiers and listed milestones.

Citadel of Sorcery's Kickstarter failed dismally. They're still going at it two years later.

I don't see why everyone is hinging on Kictstarter being the catalyst that will make or break Pantheon.

I personally believe it would be easier for more people(and they would be more willing) to part with $10.00-$20.00/month to reach higher tiers than potentially dropping a large chunk all at once.
Even if it does barely get funded, it looks like they are going to have to do this anyway because I think it's pretty safe to say that it's not going to reach any of the stretch goals. I still go back to what Brad says about this KS proving to the industry (and potential investors) that people really want this type of game. Even though they've raised over 300k at this point, they still have less than 2500 backers. If I'm an investor/publisher, I don't see that as a 'huge or even average amount of interest'. I see that as a small but very vocal group of people that are willing to throw money into this project.

Design those zones with all that in mind. An example from EQ would be how lively EC was because players created a trade hub there. Have important NPCs/resources around that mid/high level need to talk to or want to fight. Have less levels (say 20) where the newbie areas and mid-level areas are interwoven (bonus: griffons, sand giants and sons of Arugal for all!). A raid target at the shrine to the God of War maybe. They're asking for enough money that I expect them to figure out solutions instead of taking lazy shortcuts.
One thing to keep in mind, the primary reasons zones like EC and GFay were trade hubs was their close proximity to cities and easy to get to via ports. So any zone like this in the future would have to have those same elements. Has brad (or any of the other team) said that trade/commerce would be strictly by chat channels or are they going to incorporate some sort of Bazaar (which is different than an AH).
 

Big Flex

Fitness Fascist
4,314
3,166
Three is the number, and the number shall be three. Two is one less than what is required and four is only the second multiple of two -- which is not in any sense three.

Neither shall the number be one, nor five.

But six is the number of the beast of many vaporwares and is to not be for a moment considered.

Three is the number.

Three is best.
haha see its all coming together
 
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0
I've been messing around with my Iksar on P1999, and it's a nice change of pace being such a newbie gimp. No map, no sense of direction, skills lacking (but slowly getting better at offense/weapon/defense!). The fact that the ground is littered with corpses of newbies is glorious too.

Not everyone can be a hero.
I've been playing a lot of p99 and have been loving it. I had no idea what I was missing all these years.