Pan'Theon: Rise' of th'e Fal'Len - #1 Thread in MMO

Mr Creed

Mr Creed

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Bilbo Faggins_sl said:
I played Vanilla WoW, and I can honestly say that while vanilla WoW was an amazing game in its own right, it was not the EQ killer it was proclaimed to be.

See here's the deal. EQ and vanilla WoW we're not the same genre. This is a distinction that almost every mmorpg player AND publisher fail to recognize.

EQ was the last true traditional RPG-based MMO. By this I mean that the vast majority of your characters combat effectiveness was based off of stats and earned abilities. The player built the character and the character fought the fights. The easiest way to relate to this is "auto-attack."

WoW brought a new genre to the MMO space; Action-RPG. By all rights, it should have been coined a MMOARPG, but Blizzard wanted to compete with the then king of MMOs, so there was no distinction acknowledged. The main difference here is that the characters combat abilities were based much more on the gamers abilities rather than the characters stats.

There IS a fundamental difference in these two styles of mmorpgs.

I choose the stat based style of EQ over the action based style of WoW. And, that's why I play EQ to this very day.
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I dont even... lets just say I disagree on that point.
 
Convo

Convo

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Denaut_sl said:
He is 100% correct.

Hell the terrain isn't even painted well and the prefab of the building is just stuck into the terrain. It isn't blended or grounded to look like it belongs there in any way. 20 minutes is being generous, I'd say more like 5.
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I don't think what he is saying is a bad thing. It goes back to what was said about why they chose Unity. I think that's pretty good for something that may take 20mins. The faster they can build the game. the better. I don't mind that art at all tho, and It would only get better in time.
 
Vandyn

Vandyn

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Convo_sl said:
I don't think what he is saying is a bad thing. It goes back to what was said about why they chose Unity. I think that's pretty good for something that may take 20mins. The faster they can build the game. the better. I don't mind that art at all tho and It would only get better in time.
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Broken record but considering how easy it is, it's mind blowing how none of this was done prior to the kickstarter.
 
Rezz

Rezz

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The issue being honesty about what? Their lack of transparency regarding actual mechanics under the veil of "group!" oriented content? The amount of work currently done vs. what needs to be done to make the game viable? Or are we taking the high road and simply asking "where's the money going?" type honesty?

All of those look super specious imo. This looks/smells/feels like vaporware, and unless they actually produce some shit that doesn't look like 20 minutes in Photoshop, I am hesitant to call this anything other than a blatant cash grab with no payout.
 
Kaines

Kaines

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People keep refrencing Vu as the only programmer on the staff. Yet we have ZERO evidence of anything that took actual programming to create. We have vague game design ideas and a screen shot from Unity. If Vu is working on something, where is the evidence of his hours of programming effort?
 
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Kaines_sl said:
People keep refrencing Vu as the only programmer on the staff. Yet we have ZERO evidence of anything that took actual programming to create. We have vague game design ideas and a screen shot from Unity. If Vu is working on something, where is the evidence of his hours of programming effort?
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He's not the programmer
 
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Oloh_sl

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mkopec_sl said:
Youre taking your interpretation of what "action" combat is. If you cannot discern between EQs combat and WoWs having more action, than I don't know what else to tell you. It has nothing to do with tempo. Wows combat and EQs combat had pretty much the same tempo although WoW required more input from the user.
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No. Just no. Don't blur the lines between the two. Action combat is combat in which the core gameplay requires aiming. I.e., its not tab targeted and doesn't have autoattack. WoW is in no way, shape or form, action combat. If WoW put on the box of its next time travel expansion "ACTION COMBAT" anyone that has played an action based MMO will call bullshit. The only people that think they are remotely similar are people that have not played a real action MMO.

WoW was faster paced than EQ. Call it that. But faster paced is not action combat.
 
Kaines

Kaines

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How about a character standing on the hill next to tower swinging a sword at a rat. You know, something that requires at least a scripting language to create.
 
zzeris

zzeris

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Let's call a spade a spade. Outside of Brad, does any of this look like even 2-3 days of work? Brad can't even get his team to do much so why would anyone donate?

Also, Lol @ Merlin and Etchazz. Those last few statements by you guys was hilarious. Complete disconnect from reality.
 
Convo

Convo

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Kaines_sl said:
How about a character standing on the hill next to tower swinging a sword at a rat. You know, something that requires at least a scripting language to create.
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Think it was already established they don't need a programmer to do that with unity.

A lot of us want to see the combat prototype. I have no idea if they plan to show it or not, but it's been discussed.
 
Kaines

Kaines

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Convo_sl said:
Think it was already established they don't need a programmer to do that with unity.

A lot of us want to see the combat prototype. I have no idea if they plan to show it or not, but it's been discussed.
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Then I ask again, what the hell are the programmers doing that all the KS money is going to pay for Brad's team's "pro-bono" work? What work??? It would be a different matter if Brad said "We need the money to get the programmers/artists/designers to start working." But he didn't. According to Brad, they've been working for months. If I'm going to pay someone for work they've already done, I damn sure better see what I'm paying for. If I agree to pay someone for work they are GOING to do, then I understand the risk of paying someone before the work is done.
 
Convo

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Kaines_sl said:
Then I ask again, what the hell are the programmers doing that all the KS money is going to pay for Brad's team's "pro-bono" work? What work??? It would be a different matter if Brad said "We need the money to get the programmers/artists/designers to start working." But he didn't. According to Brad, they've been working for months. If I'm going to pay someone for work they've already done, I damn sure better see what I'm paying for. If I agree to pay someone for work they are GOING to do, then I understand the risk of paying someone before the work is done.
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Think you jumped in this thread late man. We talked about all of this
 
Mr Creed

Mr Creed

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I think just how ridiculous the claim to backpay people for months of obviously not existing effort is has not been mentioned enough, but then again why bother since the KS is not going to get them any money.
 
Vandyn

Vandyn

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Convo_sl said:
What work are you looking to see?
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I guess it would be nice to see something that has some identity to the game itself. Almost everything we've seen so far doesn't really give me any sort of indication of what pantheon could look like. Whether that's concept art of classes or mockups of actual possible locations in the game.
 
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Draegan_sl

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mkopec_sl said:
Youre taking your interpretation of what "action" combat is. If you cannot discern between EQs combat and WoWs having more action, than I don't know what else to tell you. It has nothing to do with tempo. Wows combat and EQs combat had pretty much the same tempo although WoW required more input from the user.
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Action Combat is a thing. As in, there are key elements that conjure up when you say "Action Combat". WOW and EQ combat are in the same family for the most part. Autoattacks, tab target and completely reliant on dice checks and math to do damage with a few exceptions.

Action Combat is completely reliant on positioning, aiming, and all damage coming from distinct key presses. GW2 is somewhere in the middle of all things because it's a psuedo-hybrid like Wildstar is.

EQ was just a slower pace when compared to WOW. WOW has more action because you had both more keys to press and you had to press them more often but are relatively the same. That is why I used to word tempo.
 
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Vandyn_sl said:
I guess it would be nice to see something that has some identity to the game itself. Almost everything we've seen so far doesn't really give me any sort of indication of what pantheon could look like. Whether that's concept art of classes or mockups of actual possible locations in the game.
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For me, the lack of art was a big let down. Still is a let down.
 
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Draegan_sl

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Vandyn_sl said:
Broken record but considering how easy it is, it's mind blowing how none of this was done prior to the kickstarter.
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Primarily this. Also, these simple screenshots are essentially wank. They are not impressive and essentially should not even be part of updates because of how stupid easy that stuff is.
 
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Draegan_sl

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zzeris_sl said:
Let's call a spade a spade. Outside of Brad, does any of this look like even 2-3 days of work? Brad can't even get his team to do much so why would anyone donate?

Also, Lol @ Merlin and Etchazz. Those last few statements by you guys was hilarious. Complete disconnect from reality.
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Let's be really honest, I have no game development experience. After seeing this thread, I played around with some free tools. Except for the concept art work that was done 2 years ago for another project, I could of produced everything you've read and seen in the last month in a single weekend.
 
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