Pan'Theon: Rise' of th'e Fal'Len - #1 Thread in MMO

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yeah that low-level gameplay of 6 dudes beating off a snake for 5 minutes, while taking turns sitting on their asses - sorry, 'meditating' - was simply enthralling.

gotta have that downtime though, so everyone has to deal with your constant typed out bullshit, because you dont have the social skills to actually speak coherently in on eof the numerous free voice chats.
 
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Utnayan

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yeah that low-level gameplay of 6 dudes beating off a snake for 5 minutes, while taking turns sitting on their asses - sorry, 'meditating' - was simply enthralling.

gotta have that downtime though, so everyone has to deal with your constant typed out bullshit, because you dont have the social skills to actually speak coherently in on eof the numerous free voice chats.

There is that too. Obviously, needs to be tuned lol :)
 
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It really needs significant downtime though, it is a game breaker without it. EQ was maybe too long sometimes, mostly while soloing, but if you had a group with a bard or an ench (and most groups did), downtime was tiny. A group without that though and it was painful.

But Vanguard had no downtime, and it sucked because of it. Groups became like all other modern action MMO's where you are constantly fighting. There are no breaks, no time to chat, etc. The most important thing about downtime though, is that it is the only way to make mana and health important. If you can just med to full easily, then every battle becomes nothing more than just spamming your biggest spell over and over. Fireball, Fireball, Fireball, loot. EQ wasn't like that. Mana was super important so people would use DoT's in fights because they were mana efficient, and they would try to sit during combat which was dangerous but semi essential, and they would not just unload nukes on every mob because if a train suddenly shows up, you might need mana for evac or something. If an add appears and everyone is lom, and as a caster you don't even have the mana to root it, then you are failing at the game. All this stuff is what made EQ tactical and different to other MMO's, and all this stuff only even exists if there is downtime.

In Vanguard, not only was regen after battles really fast, but they had some over the top abilities. The Druid had something that made roots come out of the ground and you sapped mana from the ground. It meant that you couldn't move for a moment, but you regenned a chunk of mana even during combat. I loved the idea of it and the strategy opportunities, but it was just too OP. And most classes had something similar. That game also had totally overpowered taunting mechanics, and mez. All this made it far too easy and mindless.

The same is true in single player RPGs. In Dragon Age you rest for 2 seconds after a battle and everyone is full. But in the far superior Baldur's Gate, you have to do long rests after battles, and often you will get attacked when you try to rest. You then end up going into a big battle with just whatever resources you have left over from the last battle... so if you just unloaded all your fireballs and ice storms to kill a little group of kobalds, then you are now fucked. And that is how it should be.
 
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Identikit

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uh qwerty.......you know you can just take a break right? I think you can take a break whenever you want for however long as you want. So downtime is what you make of it. Plus with the advent of voice chat, you can chat now while you play with ease. That is if you are somewhat competent.
 

zzeris

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The environment and character models look solid. The only thing keeping it looking dated in my eyes is the things they haven't fully upgraded, like animations, fx, sounds etc.

Also, without some downtime and death penalties, Pantheon would just be another shitty mainstream game that people will play a few months and leave. Those were the factors that helped make it social, and added the feeling of risk that made stuff you accomplished seem worthwhile.

I think there should be death penalties but they shouldn't be as significant as an 18-year-old game. Some small exp loss, having to get your body back to recover most of it, something like that. The game will have bugs and may not even run really well early. I wouldn't want to add significant exp loss to that situation. I also am not a huge fan of downtime. Having some for soloing classes but good groups in EQ didn't really have a lot of downtime. Maybe having a 45-60 sec window of medding for soloing depending on level. Last thing I want is for them to find a reason for me to lose focus or interest while waiting on my mana. What made it social was the infancy of the genre, and the lack of other top notch options. It's a niche game so it may want to get that small population...but I think Brad wants a bigger audience, more money, and more recognition. Limiting a game for a very, very small audience isn't what he has planned. I could be wrong, of course.
 
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Xexx

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I dig forced down time - i remember old dungeon crawling/camping where your group just finished respawns and you knew more spawns or pats were due soon but youre all OOM and sitting to regen while worried if a pat or respawn would happen before hand and push your shit in.
 
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zzeris

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I dig forced down time - i remember old dungeon crawling/camping where your group just finished respawns and you knew more spawns or pats were due soon but youre all OOM and sitting to regen while worried if a pat or respawn would happen before hand and push your shit in.

Yeah, in the hard and very long dungeons, it would make sense to have some downtime to rest and prepare. Outside of that, nah.
 

Xexx

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Nah i mean like how Guk was originally doing named camps - being trained by assholes wanting your camp or just getting behind in killing shit and low on mana and losing your camp. Shit like that adds a interesting dynamic to dungeon grinding that seems to be lost in current MMOs.
 

Grim1

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Parachute..

Will buy this game when (if) it comes out.

I've never had any issues with Brad (and yes, I liked Vanguard). EQ was a major portion of my life (in a good way) and Brad was a major part of the team that created that.

It's basic rule of the internet that threads full of haters (like this thread) consume most of the bandwidth. Frankly, I never understood the mentality of people that can give so much of their lives to hating and writing about something that has no measurable effect on them. This game isn't even out yet.

If you don't like Brad's games, move on, why waste your days and years crying about it? What are you accomplishing? But then again, it probably has to do with the fact that 95 percent of everything (including humanity) is garbage.

So, in the immortal words of Shatner... Get a Life.

Carry on...
 
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Xexx

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Inclined to agree, i loved EQ1 up to GoD and i enjoyed the classes in VG alot and my rigs have always been pretty boss so even tho the engine had issues it still ran pretty good for me. I enjoyed VG as it was but i was already playing something else more when it came out so i got my bard to max level and didnt play much outside of that.

EQ2 wasnt terrible as i enjoyed that as well, and tho most hate the piano style combat, i on the other hand enjoyed it. I kinda dislike the fact that CC isnt something currently necessary in most MMOs anymore. It leaves out the requirement of needing support role classes which i generally like to play. So long as Pantheon has a bard at release its a surefire purchase in my book.
 

DickTrickle

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Inclined to agree, i loved EQ1 up to GoD and i enjoyed the classes in VG alot and my rigs have always been pretty boss so even tho the engine had issues it still ran pretty good for me. I enjoyed VG as it was but i was already playing something else more when it came out so i got my bard to max level and didnt play much outside of that.

EQ2 wasnt terrible as i enjoyed that as well, and tho most hate the piano style combat, i on the other hand enjoyed it. I kinda dislike the fact that CC isnt something currently necessary in most MMOs anymore. It leaves out the requirement of needing support role classes which i generally like to play. So long as Pantheon has a bard at release its a surefire purchase in my book.

I don't think bard is slated as release class currently.
 

kudos

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The race models do not mesh well. One looks like an anime fagatron and the other looks like a sci-fi character and the other looks like an EQ2 model. Wtf?
 

Dullahan

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yeah that low-level gameplay of 6 dudes beating off a snake for 5 minutes, while taking turns sitting on their asses - sorry, 'meditating' - was simply enthralling.

gotta have that downtime though, so everyone has to deal with your constant typed out bullshit, because you dont have the social skills to actually speak coherently in on eof the numerous free voice chats.
They could, and probably should, do away with combat meditation for the most part. There can be downtime without having casters sitting during combat. Could give them combat related abilities to restore mana, autoattack with wands, or any number of other options to discourage sitting. For that matter, they could just decrease meditation rates while in combat.
 

BoozeCube

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Parachute..

Will buy this game when (if) it comes out.

I've never had any issues with Brad (and yes, I liked Vanguard). EQ was a major portion of my life (in a good way) and Brad was a major part of the team that created that.

It's basic rule of the internet that threads full of haters (like this thread) consume most of the bandwidth. Frankly, I never understood the mentality of people that can give so much of their lives to hating and writing about something that has no measurable effect on them. This game isn't even out yet.

If you don't like Brad's games, move on, why waste your days and years crying about it? What are you accomplishing? But then again, it probably has to do with the fact that 95 percent of everything (including humanity) is garbage.

So, in the immortal words of Shatner... Get a Life.

Carry on...

Sounds like you need.

free5.jpg
 
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Fordrynn

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yeah that low-level gameplay of 6 dudes beating off a snake for 5 minutes, while taking turns sitting on their asses - sorry, 'meditating' - was simply enthralling.

gotta have that downtime though, so everyone has to deal with your constant typed out bullshit, because you dont have the social skills to actually speak coherently in on eof the numerous free voice chats.

Will you slit your wrists if people like this game?
 

tyen

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The race models do not mesh well. One looks like an anime fagatron and the other looks like a sci-fi character and the other looks like an EQ2 model. Wtf?

3d modelling, apart from programming, animating, and 2d art, is one of the most time consuming processes of game development.

Granted they have very little man power in this space, you'll see a lot of strung together "placeholders."

If/when venture capital makes its way to Pantheon, that'd be exactly where it should be directed.

From what I gather, Monty is the only person doing this, and he does it at a hobby level for Pantheon because of obvious funding restrictions. Time = Money.

Having someone devote days worth of work to model a fuzzy troll for free/pennies is going to be hard to come by.
 

etchazz

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They could, and probably should, do away with combat meditation for the most part. There can be downtime without having casters sitting during combat. Could give them combat related abilities to restore mana, autoattack with wands, or any number of other options to discourage sitting. For that matter, they could just decrease meditation rates while in combat.

Or, you know, don't give snakes 5,000 hit points...

I don't mind clubbing snakes and baby seals when I'm level 1 and just starting out, but there was something definitely off putting about watching a group trying to take down a simple snake. Also, I don't mind having down time in a game. In fact, I think it's essential. Without any type of mana mitigation, you just over nuke every target, regen to full, and move on to the next mob. It takes all of the strategy out of the game if you don't actually have to watch how you use your mana.
 

wilkxus

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I think there should be death penalties but they shouldn't be as significant as an 18-year-old game.
Nicely put.
Especially in terms of realistic placement of Pantheon is niche!
It's a niche game so it may want to get that small population...but I think Brad wants a bigger audience, more money, and more recognition. Limiting a game for a very, very small audience isn't what he has planned. I could be wrong, of course.
Nailed IMO. Has the War Wizard learned his lessons of Sigil well? They (VR) had better not be cocky, but focus on core quality rather than complexity or volume of content.

My preferences design wise lean on the side of greater downtime and penalties provided they can evolve updated EQ like mechanics creatively to compensate for the punishing penalty aspects that 18 years later, simply will not fly otherwise. That will IMO require a tight money pinching FOCUS on:
  • producers to guide team to focus on Challenge and Journey aspects of gameplay (NOT endgame, leave that to wow this time around)
  • decent but SIMPLE game mechanics (no complex sh*t like in Crowfall crafting IMO)
  • decent interface & polish (simple core)
  • suite of SMART tools & analysis in the background for balancing: Class, Custom Itemization & group content
  • a solid code base & quality control framework ESPECIALLY since have a lot of NEW talent that prob needs guidance.
  • experienced enough coders to make it all float!
  • Unity graphics are fine, dont sweat the graphics too much for niche, they wont beat Black Desert, WoW did not give a sh*t either!
Without the above they will not be able to handle the predictably difficult but necessary balance tweaking and refactoring sh*t through beta and post release. Decent internal dev tools to make maintenance feasible for a small crew. MORE tweaking will be required for a game with deeper EQ type class mechanics. Doubt they have the time and $$ to incubate in Alpha/Beta as long as Blizzard or a big studio.

Is the BMQ War Wizard up to this task??? If not thats ok, but he had better have some help and advice from decent engineers to help with feasability evaluations and advice scaling down!

Which leads me to a set of serious questions for the the War Wizard's team. MMORPG graveyard is littered with try hards! Does the team have:
  • not just experience, design chops, talent, all clicking together.....
  • also B*LLS to implement the riskier EQ like challenge required to fill the niche?
  • and B*LLS enough to speak up if shit doesnt work as it should & insist it be fixed? Novices are often too shy to speak up!
Regardless of how many niche fanboys and fangirls they have now, the software sure as fook be easier to maintain and expand than Everquest was in 1999 because the years long honeymoon period that EQ had for years after release will not last more than a few weeks. Even less time than with Vanguard. None will play long enough to be addicted. EQ was just lucky people stuck around long enough to get addicted because other stuff sucked worse in those first few years.

Expect no freebies this time for Pantheon. The niche oldschoolers are desperate but JADED!
And with Convo gone.... the fans grow restless! We need FUEL for our fires!

Anyhow, /cheers for @Convo ! Take heart Convo, and worry not too much about risk of imminent failure, for career wise early failure is often a necesary blessing in disguise to learn from. And it is those early failures that plant the seeds of learning from which grow the foundations for greater success later! And seriously, do not be afraid to speak up and share your honest and FoHs jaded thoughts!

Best of luck and Pantheon on!!!!!
 
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Ukerric

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I also am not a huge fan of downtime.
Downtime is ok in a group situation, where you might take time to chat a bit. But it absolutely sucks in solo play.

And if your game doesn't offer solo play in one form or another, you've probably lost.
 
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