Pan'Theon: Rise' of th'e Fal'Len - #1 Thread in MMO

Utnayan

Utnayan

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jilena_sl said:
I think EQ has a ton of memorable facets that were most definitely design mistakes or at least unintended consequences of intended design over time (cheal).

I do think the spirit of the game can be recaptured but the problem is everyone focuses on these mistakes or unintended consequences as necessities in a new game as the way to do that. I don't think you need corpse runs, fd pulling, cheal chains, massive downtime on your butt, a max of 8 abilities memmed, no fast travel, massive cc, etc to recapture that.

The things to focus on in my opinion are how players interacted with one another in EQ and how to recreate that rather than trying to stick to individual points that were painful or awesome enough for people to remember years later. I want the ridiculous feeling of accomplishment and camaraderie I felt when downing something difficult in EQ with my friends. I want the disappointment and annoyance I felt after a massive failure. I want to feel like I need the other players that I share the world with. I want to feel like I want to punch my monitor in a fit of nerd rage after getting fist fucked by a PK for the 6th time in a row while I try to recover my body.

Hell. I want to feel SOMETHING when playing these games besides OH SHIT 27 MORE MOBS TO KILL AND THAT BLUE SWORD IS MINE YAWWWWNN.
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I agree with you. The fun part of this is, brad is using those mechanics the players made as a design doc. Rather than doing it all over again and letting the players find new unintended ways to play the game, using that nostalgia to drudge up old feelings on a design doc that isn't even made yet on a poorly designed kickstarter page to try and gain money so SOE will further support it. Holy run on sentence.

We agree. You can't create it. Now if he released this game to new and different ways players started making their own choices and different versions of trains, FD Pulls, Kiting, etc - all came about in completely different play styles we do not know about yet, that would be impressive. But that won't get people to give their money away. Nostalgia is capitilizing on that with the most basic of overviews from EQ.

Amazing.
 
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delirium_sl

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Updated FAQ:

Will there be many quests?
Story and lore elements are essential to our Quest system - they need to be meaningful and give purpose. But as a player you should never feel overwhelmed with a bunch of quests that are nothing but mundane tasks. When you get a quest the intent is that it will be epic in nature and reinforce the fact that you are a resurrected hero.

Will there be epic quests?
ABSOPOSILUTELY!!! Some of our most memorable gaming experiences stem from the adventure that was getting our epic weapons. These quests were class defining moments that filled you with a major sense of accomplishment when completed. Whether it was hunting for clues to start them or trying to figure out the right thing to say or do to get to the next step, epic quests were a significant social module and we plan to make them a part of Pantheon. But they will not be limited to just weapons, I mean how is a fallen hero supposed to rise again if he does not have his weapon, armor, and mighty steed?

How will I know an NPC has a quest?
This one is easy. If you want to find out if an npc has a quest all you have to do is. talk to him. That's right, we will NOT be utilizing the over the head icon tech. We want you investigate your surroundings and gather information, talking to NPCs is a big part of that. So don't be shy get out there and make some friends
 
Skanda

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tad10_sl said:
I'm pretty sure they do but feel free to have the last post on this.
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So twenty minutes ago you thought Storybricks was owned by SoE and now you're suddenly an expert on Namaste's business relations with SoE. You never cease to amaze me with what you can craft in that head of yours Tad.
 
Kirun

Kirun

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Muligan_sl said:
Ut... i'm with you in all your points. Seriously. Everything you said is business sense and even common sense but then again, this is another way the internet has closed the gap and broadened the scope on an everyday practice.

Example... I had a kid come knock on my door and he was looking for funding to study abroad in China. I knew the kid and also knew he had worked for months to supplement the money his parents could afford to give him but still came up short. Thus, he went to the community. We helped him out what little bit we could and while it was really supporting a good cause I can think of numerous occasions people have presented me opportunities from religious to business and I either contributed or not.

Probably the more relevant example... It was just the other night I was watching Andy Griffith (sorry, I love the show) and a man came into town looking for local talent to make a record. Some people couldn't sing and they wanted some way to get involved. They invested so the gentlemen could make the record and in turn hoping to get a little something in return.

You have to also consider that Brad is giving investors a copy of the game. So it is not like he's asking you to fund the game and then turn around and buy it. This is no different than any other investment venture. I did this same thing with a local OrangeLeaf. I helped bring the franchise into our town but guess who's paying for yogurt every week? Heck, the primary owner pays for yogurt. We get 10% off... that's it and everyone involved still has full time jobs so it's not like we are making a living at it. We just wanted to do something nice for the town, the people, kids, and we let people get involved to make it less of a financial burden and people banned together because of what it would provide the community overall. I guess people were willing to pay to let it be our headache.

Kickstarter just took this principle and widened the scope and people are taking advantage of the opportunity in attempt to fund anything and everything but here's the beauty... regardless of the situation not one of us have to give. If you want to, it's ok. If you find it against your principles, that's fine. Sometimes products just do not happen. Not everyone can be backed by some major investor. If someone has an idea, they have to get family involved, friends, acquaintances, neighbors, whatever to get it off the ground. Kickstarter is just the virtual version of knocking on someone's door.
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No, what Kickstarter did is allow for businesses to completely shirk financial responsibility. Not only can they release a horrible product, they don't have to release a product at all! And now, instead of being beholden to publishers and shareholders, they've duped idiot consumers into thinking that it's perfectly OK to get no return on your investment.
 
Utnayan

Utnayan

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/\/\ Dead on Kirun.

I know you are just updating delirium, but they may as well get it over with and just print the back of the box of EQ on the FAQ and call it a day, admitting they have no design doc and are just getting funds from overzealous fans waning for the day of yesteryear.
 
wahnd

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Utnayan_sl said:
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For Ut in general..

"It is not the critic who counts: not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself for a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat."
Theodore Roosevelt

Brad is no super hero.. but he is atleast trying to make a game a lot of us want to see. It's easy to sit on the sidelines and talk smack. All you do is trash everything. Try be happy for once
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Convo

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Utnayan_sl said:
/\/\ Dead on Kirun.

I know you are just updating delirium, but they may as well get it over with and just print the back of the box of EQ on the FAQ and call it a day, admitting they have no design doc and are just getting funds from overzealous fans waning for the day of yesteryear.
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But a lot of us actually want those things so why is it an issue? No reason to not use those things as they worked and were fun.
 
tad10

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Kirun_sl said:
No, what Kickstarter did is allow for businesses to completely shirk financial responsibility. Not only can they release a horrible product, they don't have to release a product at all! And now, instead of being beholden to publishers and shareholders, they've duped idiot consumers into thinking that it's perfectly OK to get no return on your investment.
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If you and Ut are going to slam kickstarter constantly, I'd really like some numbers. How many duped consumers were defrauded? Cause I see lots of people who have supported 10 projects or more.. Seems like if fraud was an issue that wouldn't be happening.
 
Whidon

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Yeah the kickstraq projection of 1.1m is based on it continuing that average of 27k a day over the rest of the project.. .. Thats not likely to happen.

The problem with projecting the Pantheon amount is it got far, far less then other similar projects in that first day. Yet it's done much better on a % of first day for the days following. my thing is I just see it being difficult to keep near that pace over the next 32 days before it gets that last few days boost.

I mean Camelot Unchained did between 12k-40k a day during days 4-26 or so. It needed required a funding 2.5x as high as Pantheon and got way, way more backers in it's first few days. Pantheon needs to sustain 19k daily going forward. Now some of that can be made up in the last cpl days by getting the bump there everyone gets so maybe from days 5-25 or so you need to be averaging more like 17 or 18, maybe a little less if you get a huge backing in the last few days.
 
Soygen

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Kirun_sl said:
No, what Kickstarter did is allow for businesses to completely shirk financial responsibility. Not only can they release a horrible product, they don't have to release a product at all! And now, instead of being beholden to publishers and shareholders, they've duped idiot consumers into thinking that it's perfectly OK to get no return on your investment.
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"Duped" how? Kickstarter is very transparent on the fact that you're taking risks. Now I'll agree that many of the consumers who pledge are idiots for doing so, but nobody is duping anyone here.
 
Tuco

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Kirun_sl said:
No, what Kickstarter did is allow for businesses to completely shirk financial responsibility. Not only can they release a horrible product, they don't have to release a product at all! And now, instead of being beholden to publishers and shareholders, they've duped idiot consumers into thinking that it's perfectly OK to get no return on your investment.
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Utnayan_sl said:
/\/\ Dead on Kirun.

I know you are just updating delirium, but they may as well get it over with and just print the back of the box of EQ on the FAQ and call it a day, admitting they have no design doc and are just getting funds from overzealous fans waning for the day of yesteryear.
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Is there any evidence that Brad has corporate financial and they are just trying to squeeze nostalgic gamers out of a few bucks to decrease some early investment cost? Besides a tweet that someone in SOE marketing wants to drum up some hype for whatever.
 
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bayr_sl

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It sounds more like he wants to lead people into believing he has some backdoor arrangement for publishing to get them to fund the 800k
 
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Dahkoht_sl

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Sigh, today's been both positive and negative on the KS.

The idea of the new tiers was good , implementation bad. And doesn't take an MBA with years of experience to see it.

I realize I sound like a broken record but this specific example is a perfect one. The new 250 tier. Just a few seconds of consideration should have revealed that the idea of being in very early on testing/design feedback for a small group (500) should excite enough to be able to sell those slots out. Money was left on the table making it the same amount as the existing 250 tier. Anyone spending 250 to begin with is definitely very supportive of the project. The lifetime sub is a good thing ,but the ability to do the very early testing for some is a one time only thing to see the game built from a very early stage. I switched because of this. I'd much rather give another 100 dollars and have both as 350 tier as I said earlier , Brad and Co need that money now much more than later.

Also , it was worded very oddly , a same price tier , had many thinking you still got the 250 lifetime benefit tier because it was "before" it on the listing , thus "below" and included. I didn't , but still it was confusing. Having the multiple tiers at the same price level , worded not very clearly , and adding something that should have been noted internally as a way to get even more money is just perplexing.

I'm a backer obviously ,been helping spread the word , but come on , this sort of thing should be noticed and done without the confusion.

Edit:
You know damn well there are going to be newcomers to Brad/Vanguard or not hard core followers who consider funding, but get confused with the tiers and say screw it "if you can't make a KS site , how are you going to make a mmorpg ?". Whether that's fair or not , it will happen , and money will be lost.
 
Lenas

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Kirun_sl said:
No, what Kickstarter did is allow for businesses to completely shirk financial responsibility. Not only can they release a horrible product, they don't have to release a product at all! And now, instead of being beholden to publishers and shareholders, they've duped idiot consumers into thinking that it's perfectly OK to get no return on your investment.
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If Kickstarters like The Banner Saga or Broken Age have taught us anything, it's that crowd-funded gamesdefinitelydon't work.
 
Heallun

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Lol, from the cleric update. Did they even read this shit?

They don full heavy plate armor,

and later on in the paragraph...

The lack of heavy armor makes them more susceptible to melee and artillery damage

Heh.
 
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bayr_sl

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Lenas_sl said:
If Kickstarters like The Banner Saga or Broken Age have taught us anything, it's that crowd-funded gamesdefinitelydon't work.
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I can't tell if this is sarcasm or not. Broken Age got 3.3 million dollars and all they could deliver was a 3 hour episodic piece of their game for it, and it was late.

Banner Saga, I don't know how much they got, but they needed to make a f2p multiplayer game to bridge the financial gap, and their game is fucking terrible outside of the art (it's a glorified tablet game)

Anyone asking for 800k for a MMO is joking. Kickstarter is setting a trend for under delivering and now someone is pretending they can make an MMO on a shoestring budget
 
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