Pan'Theon: Rise' of th'e Fal'Len - #1 Thread in MMO

Utnayan_sl said:

Ok then have him head up there about my flight plans which if I would have taken a job at SOE I would be four reports above him by now. He's a peon. He has no knowledge of anything happening from the business side of things.

And neither do you. And if that also would have happened 75% of their staff would be applying for jobs at zynga and eq next would be something worth looking forward too. The Broom would have laid a smack down on some of the most inept management seen in the industry and this genre today.

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You're amusing at least. Completely wrong, but amusing.

Elidroth_sl said:

The point of my post was that it's hard enough to get a KS funded without having some loud self-annointed know-it-all actively trying to undermine things. These guys deserve their shot without any ridiculous tinfoil hat nonsense.

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You really need a little of that though. Otherwise you have the annoying people who scream IT'S STILL IN BETA 3 days before launch (you know who I'm talking about) as an excuse for every criticism just running over everyone with a dissenting opinion. I hate those people at least 10X as much as I hate the 100% negative ones.

Utnayan_sl said:

So you are denying that story my little friend? Head over there to his office.

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What story would you be referring to? The part in your head where you think you're important? And unless you were going to be studio head (4 reports above me), you're completely full of it. That job is currently filled, and by someone who is VERY good at what he does.

Tiv_sl said:

Hey all. Love the vibe of this forum! Lurking since FOHguild actually, but now seems like a good time to jump in.

I tracked down some Facebook groups.. might be useful for a dev to pop in personally and stir up excitement, all grassroots marketing like...

Misc EQ1:
----------
Everquest, 3,000 members -https://www.facebook.com/groups/2204660571/?ref=br_rs
Everquest PVP Guilds, 600 members -https://www.facebook.com/groups/3832...642/?ref=br_rs
Everquest Friends, 220 members -https://www.facebook.com/groups/2266...346/?ref=br_rs

EQ1 Servers:
--------------
EQ1: Luclin, 720 members -https://www.facebook.com/groups/2689...509/?ref=br_rs
EQ1: Tunare, 700 members -https://www.facebook.com/groups/106914563312/?ref=br_rs
EQ1: Mith Marr, 700 members -https://www.facebook.com/groups/mith...arr/?ref=br_rs
EQ1: Prexus, 570 members -https://www.facebook.com/groups/22930609661/?ref=br_rs
EQ1: Tribunal, 500 members -https://www.facebook.com/groups/267354458665/?ref=br_rs
EQ1: Erollisi Marr, 400 membershttps://www.facebook.com/groups/8419984873/?ref=br_rs
EQ1: Bristlebane, 320 members -https://www.facebook.com/groups/EQ.B...ANE/?ref=br_rs
EQ1: Rathe, 270 members -https://www.facebook.com/groups/63940098447/?ref=br_rs
EQ1: Fennin Ro, 270 members -https://www.facebook.com/groups/fenninro/?ref=br_rs
EQ1: Vazaelle, 265 members -https://www.facebook.com/groups/14326454526/?ref=br_rs
EQ1: Nagafen, 200 members -https://www.facebook.com/groups/87907269839/?ref=br_rs
EQ1: Stromm, 170 members -https://www.facebook.com/groups/eqstromm/?ref=br_rs
EQ1: FV, 160 members -https://www.facebook.com/groups/111394281503/?ref=br_rs
EQ1: Xev, 90 members -https://www.facebook.com/groups/4795...453/?ref=br_rs
EQ1: E'Ci, 65 members -https://www.facebook.com/groups/1527...116/?ref=br_rs
EQ1: Povar, 55 members -https://www.facebook.com/groups/1948...481/?ref=br_rs
EQ1: Antonius Bayle, 30 members -https://www.facebook.com/groups/3805...291/?ref=br_rs

EQ1 Guilds (past/present):
----------------------------
Triton, 80 members -https://www.facebook.com/groups/182899059170/?ref=br_rs
Triality, 60 members -https://www.facebook.com/groups/1349...228/?ref=br_rs
Phantom Raiders Guild, 100 members -https://www.facebook.com/groups/92576700529/?ref=br_rs
Crimson Eternity Guild, 80 members -https://www.facebook.com/groups/1138...158/?ref=br_rs
Darkwind Guild, 130 members -https://www.facebook.com/groups/1406...790/?ref=br_rs
Five Rings Guild, 80 members -https://www.facebook.com/groups/1353...196/?ref=br_rs
Champions of Norrath, 90 members -https://www.facebook.com/groups/CoNEQ/?ref=br_rs
Ring of Valor, 120 members -https://www.facebook.com/groups/ringofvalor/?ref=br_rs
Nameless Order, 60 members -https://www.facebook.com/groups/2760...528/?ref=br_rs
Caer Cadarn, 60 members -https://www.facebook.com/groups/13151245122/?ref=br_rs
Travelers of Norrath, 100 members -https://www.facebook.com/groups/1110...382/?ref=br_rs
Iratus Lepus, 80 members -https://www.facebook.com/groups/1201...013/?ref=br_rs
Dark Horizon, 60 members -https://www.facebook.com/groups/1011...402/?ref=br_rs
Divine Legend, 80 members -https://www.facebook.com/groups/5164433801/?ref=br_rs
Emerald Alliances, 440 members -https://www.facebook.com/groups/1415...072/?ref=br_rs
Infinite Elysium, 100 members -https://www.facebook.com/groups/infi...ium/?ref=br_rs
Ashen Vendetta, 80 members -https://www.facebook.com/groups/36038436227/?ref=br_rs
Phantom Raiders, 100 members -https://www.facebook.com/groups/92576700529/?ref=br_rs
Wudan EQ, 100 members -https://www.facebook.com/groups/11038975724/?ref=br_rs
Five Rings, 75 members -https://www.facebook.com/groups/1353...196/?ref=br_rs
Rest in Peace, 100 members -https://www.facebook.com/groups/4441543393/?ref=br_rs
Crimson Eternity, 80 members -https://www.facebook.com/groups/1138...158/?ref=br_rs
Noble Blade, 130 members -https://www.facebook.com/groups/44475404312/?ref=br_rs
Tribe, 60 members -https://www.facebook.com/groups/tribeguild/?ref=br_rs
Unholy Czars, 70 members -https://www.facebook.com/groups/2071...225/?ref=br_rs

Misc (on-topic game groups):
--------------------------------
Official Dragon*Con Facebook, 10,000 members -https://www.facebook.com/groups/64957418128/?ref=br_rs
Dragon*Con, 8,750 members -https://www.facebook.com/groups/2204785158/?ref=br_rs

Old School Gamers, 5,300 members -https://www.facebook.com/groups/1213...920/?ref=br_rs
Old School Gaming Rocks, 340 members -https://www.facebook.com/groups/OSGRocks/?ref=br_rs

MMO Games, 5,000 members -https://www.facebook.com/groups/18560342066/?ref=br_rs
A Fansite for Games Workshop, 4,900 members -https://www.facebook.com/groups/2375487814/?ref=br_rs

1st Edition Advanced Dungeons & Dragons, 2,200 members -https://www.facebook.com/groups/40230212669/?ref=br_rs
Dungeons and Dragons, 580 members -https://www.facebook.com/groups/2204479412/?ref=br_rs

RPG Kickstarter News, 1,440 members -https://www.facebook.com/groups/4305...272/?ref=br_rs

Project 1999 (eq emu), 95 members -https://www.facebook.com/groups/project1999/?ref=br_rs
Taken (P1999 emu raiding guild), 65 members -https://www.facebook.com/groups/2915...676/?ref=br_rs

Game Dev (some self-promoting happening here):
------------------------------------------------------
Indie Game Developers, 13,500 membershttps://www.facebook.com/groups/8117041572/?ref=br_rs
Game Development, 12,000 members -https://www.facebook.com/groups/2204698720/?ref=br_rs
Video Game Developers, 5,000 members -https://www.facebook.com/groups/2248433342/?ref=br_rs
Indie Game Promo, 3,300 members -https://www.facebook.com/groups/2275...252/?ref=br_rs

Misc (similar games):
----------------------
Meridian 59, 300 members -https://www.facebook.com/groups/40338181227/

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Plus 10 internets to you man. If this is not linked on the front page, make it so!

jilena_sl said:

You really need a little of that though. Otherwise you have the annoying people who scream IT'S STILL IN BETA 3 days before launch (you know who I'm talking about) as an excuse for every criticism just running over everyone with a dissenting opinion. I hate those people at least 10X as much as I hate the 100% negative ones.

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There's a huge difference between being skeptical of a product, and Utnayan's drivel of "I have a friend on the inside who says it's all a conspiracy" but doesn't have any actual details to give. I agree 100% on real, valid criticisms. I don't think the tinfoil hat nonsense is necessary.

Lol. The flying monkeys are out of the castle now. Kirun and Utnayan and Bayr - Oh My! Will Brad find his Courage, a_skeleton_03 his Brain and Draegen his Heart? Tune in next week to find out...

tad10_sl said:

Better to support hope than wallow in despair.

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Are you telling me that any moron can start a kickstarter and say 'we're going to make an MMO with EQ grassroots', put a bunch of text on different ideas about what made EQ great and how you're going to visit the glory days again and you guys would gladly donate money to that? Because it brings 'hope'? Or is it simply because Brad is behind it? You know, the same one who tried this once before, with corporate backing I might add and it flamed out in one of the most impressive flameouts (for the game and the company) the industry has ever seen?

After the last bit of bickering back and forth, that Utnayan comment is good comic relief at least. Bravo I didn't think it would be possible to come off as any bigger of a self-aggrandizing blowhard but well done.

Vandyn_sl said:

Are you telling me that any moron can start a kickstarter and say 'we're going to make an MMO with EQ grassroots', put a bunch of text on different ideas about what made EQ great and how you're going to visit the glory days again and you guys would gladly donate money to that? Because it brings 'hope'? Or is it simply because Brad is behind it? You know, the same one who tried this once before, with corporate backing I might add and it flamed out in one of the most impressive flameouts (for the game and the company) the industry has ever seen?

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Brad and a bunch of other good Devs.. It's a group thing..i

Elidroth_sl said:

What story would you be referring to? The part in your head where you think you're important? And unless you were going to be studio head (4 reports above me), you're completely full of it. That job is currently filled, and by someone who is VERY good at what he does.

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Don't feed the trolls.

Vandyn_sl said:

Or is it simply because Brad is behind it? You know, the same one who tried this once before, with corporate backing I might add and it flamed out in one of the most impressive flameouts (for the game and the company) the industry has ever seen?

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You continue to leave out facts....like this game called Everquest which was a raging success and is still pumping out expansions 15 years later. If your going to continue to use Vanguard as the standard, then at least mention Everquest. Thank you.

Vandyn_sl said:

Are you telling me that any moron can start a kickstarter and say 'we're going to make an MMO with EQ grassroots', put a bunch of text on different ideas about what made EQ great and how you're going to visit the glory days again and you guys would gladly donate money to that? Because it brings 'hope'? Or is it simply because Brad is behind it?

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Notanymoron, but a moron with history of actually delivering something that resembles a game? Sure.

Vandyn_sl said:

Are you telling me that any moron can start a kickstarter and say 'we're going to make an MMO with EQ grassroots', put a bunch of text on different ideas about what made EQ great and how you're going to visit the glory days again and you guys would gladly donate money to that? Because it brings 'hope'? Or is it simply because Brad is behind it? You know, the same one who tried this once before, with corporate backing I might add and it flamed out in one of the most impressive flameouts (for the game and the company) the industry has ever seen?

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It'll be different this time, you'll see! With less resources and a small band of other laid off developers they'll recreate the glory of Everquest. You don't need anything more than a shoestring budget when you have HOPE

Vandyn_sl said:

Are you telling me that any moron can start a kickstarter and say 'we're going to make an MMO with EQ grassroots', put a bunch of text on different ideas about what made EQ great and how you're going to visit the glory days again and you guys would gladly donate money to that? Because it brings 'hope'? Or is it simply because Brad is behind it? You know, the same one who tried this once before, with corporate backing I might add and it flamed out in one of the most impressive flameouts (for the game and the company) the industry has ever seen?

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Anyone can't. Brad is 1-1, so yeah he can.

If you don't back this project, you're facing the same unsolvable problem I mentioned before. I understand the criticism - it's warranted. You should be critical to a degree. The problem is, criticism doesn't occur in a vacuum. When you criticize, what are you comparing it to? Vanguard was a massive fuck-up of epic proportions, yup, but what exactly is an example of success?

World of Warcraft was a financial success, but post vanilla and after early TBC, it was not a success for the players: REAL players, not the casual crowd. In terms of time played, did you play Vanguard less than TOR? It's about the same for me, and TOR sunk a ship of 250 million. Are you comparing to 38 Studios, whose assets are now auctioned off? How about TESO, which is a failure so big it depresses me even thinking about it. Terra? Wildstar? Any in the F2P crap pile? How about EQN, which might possibly have potential, but still looks and will probably play like a Disney movie. So by what measure is this criticism?

EVERYONE in this industry has failed - except for four fucking games: Ultima Online, Asheron's Call, DAoCamelot, and EverQuest (and EVE to an extent), and even those eventually failed because they jumped down the casualness shithole and never looked back. UO and EQ survived with their integrity intact the longest: those two games held out and kept their difficulty and respect for their own world more than any other to date. UO caved when it was consumed by the EA behemoth and Trammel/Felucia was born. EQ caved with the PoK and post PoP gameplay.

If you value this industry at all, if you want an mmog to play,this is your last chance. This is it. Do you get it? There's ISN'T anything left. There's nothing. You may as well pack up and go home permanently if you don't support Pantheon. Nothing is coming out for another decade at least. How much older will you be before another mmog, let alone one with the gameplay we're looking for, is even announced? How old you will be then? 40+, 50+? You'll probablybe deadbefore another real mmog comes out, and fucking sadly no, that is NOT hyperbole. That's the state of the industry we love today: complete and utter garbage, complete. and. utter.

Blizzard will not help us. They've gone the way of EA permanently, so if you're somehow grasping at some hope that whatever sauce they're trying to cook post-Titan will somehow be gameplay we're all looking for, then you're even MORE easily deceived than by Brad. They're building FB2.0 with some graphics in the middle.

So you have a choice before you: back this game with whatever hope for this industry you have left or leave it altogether. I don't blame you if its the latter, but you have to fully recognize the latter: that there's nothing left for us and this is the only chance at a real mmog game we'll have... ever.

Choose.

Merlin_sl said:

You continue to leave out facts....like this game called Everquest which was a raging success and is still pumping out expansions 15 years later. If your going to continue to use Vanguard as the standard, then at least mention Everquest. Thank you.

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Yes, it was a raging success, during a time where there was no competition. Lets also not credit him with the fact that the game is still running, Ultima Online is still running too. He was part of one game that was great, failed at recreating that game some 8 years later when the industry caught up with him. How is now different?