The Batman
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gauze
Molten Core Raider
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I guess even if we skip the idea of it being early.. Isn't it kind hard* to identify essentially a "nobody" on a case that is a "coverup" or plot through internal* corruption? I'm not saying that there isn't ways to do it better, but he eventually is on the trail that the targets are high positions in the judicial system and that the police cannot be trusted and/or work under the same umbrella.. he is under the inkling it has something to do with the mob, but crappy diversion he believes it the penguin.. and before he could continue that it is political figures; he, as bruce wayne, becomes a target.. what seemed to be made clear in the church scene for the viewer, given he's a recluse.. while the carpet tool was a pretty silly reveal, I enjoyed that even to the end riddler maintained the upperhand.. Given that if theses crimes happened again, in the way they happen with riddles and all.. and batman can't figure it out; then I can agree more to him be the worlds worst detective. I think it's pointed that riddler is suppose to be extremely intelligence and hyper meticulous.. so for batman to find a flaw doesn't seem nearly as easy? imo?
Seven's crimes were thematic, and they weren't able to stop any of the murders; just understood what was going to happen.. don't they eventually find Doe based off bread crumbs that lead the detectives to him, but Doe alludes them and they eventually come to the next murder.. then leads to Doe turning himself in confessing everything and the final act being that they were apart of the plan.
Seven's crimes were thematic, and they weren't able to stop any of the murders; just understood what was going to happen.. don't they eventually find Doe based off bread crumbs that lead the detectives to him, but Doe alludes them and they eventually come to the next murder.. then leads to Doe turning himself in confessing everything and the final act being that they were apart of the plan.
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The car chase actually annoyed me quite a bit.
It looked fantastic sure, but having the literally jet powered batmobile struggling to keep up with Penguins totally normal car was inherently kind of ridiculous. Batman plays the part of a movie monster here, where no matter what speed *you* are moving at, he's an appropriately dramatic distance behind you so he can start catching up if you look at him.
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Chanur
Shit Posting Professional
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It was annoying. The Penguines car did look like a Maseratti though. They are pretty fast.
Chukzombi
Millie's Staff Member
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to be fair, in Se7en, the case went cold so (Somerset) Morgan Freeman called in a solid from an FBI buddy and they gave them a list of flagged book purchases that lad to John Doe's apartment. still though, they followed that lead and it paid off. i also think it pissed off Doe and so he took it personally. thats why he chose to kill (Mills's) Brad Pitt's wife and put her head in a box
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The pieces for a great movie are all here, they just aren't put together correctly. Is that the studio, is that the Director (which I don't really think because Matt Reeves has done good stuff), was it COVID, was it the actors/schedule, etc, or was it just one of those things where it just doesn't come together, doesn't gel right? We take for granted when we get great movies, I think, but for every Matrix or LOTR, there are a hundred movies that started out with the potential and just didn't work out the same way, didn't come together with the right mix at the right time.
The stool pigeon/penguin/bat/falcon thing was neat but the line between mysterious and confusing is thin.
The stool pigeon/penguin/bat/falcon thing was neat but the line between mysterious and confusing is thin.
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Kiki
Log Wizard
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it seems like a writer or director problem. I thought the acting was fine, I didn't mind emo batman, he just needed some muscle definition. Colin Farell was great. I couldn't stop seeing the mob boss as the butler from Mr. Deeds with the bad foot.
The car chase was dumb but cool looking, it's a fucking jet engine. The fighting was meh and semi-retarded (shotgun). So maybe it is director. We get advanced tech (contact lense) but no lucius fox, no Q. Detective batman was squandered. Gordon was the real hero or the incel mafia.
The car chase was dumb but cool looking, it's a fucking jet engine. The fighting was meh and semi-retarded (shotgun). So maybe it is director. We get advanced tech (contact lense) but no lucius fox, no Q. Detective batman was squandered. Gordon was the real hero or the incel mafia.
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jayrebb
Naxxramas 1.0 Raider
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requires suspension maintenance every 500,800,1k miles at most is the maximum you go if you plan to maintain the car.
That's 5 services within 1 oil change.
pass. and the penguin's maserati probably drives like he walks.
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gauze
Molten Core Raider
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As said before, i'm convinced we live in a world where Hollywood will nickel and dime a franchise, so something as huge as batman is more/less guaranteed to get a 3+ movie deal unless it performs poorly.. pretty much opposite of the past in which the original film has to do well for it to even consider a sequel. I'm pretty sure Nolanverse was lined up for a three movie deal, but I'd say got Raimi'd in the sense that Ledger died and anything he wanted to do is something he couldn't do. I'd say even snyderverse had potential out infront of it, but was scuffed by execs; personally didn't follow that one closely so idk.
With that said, as pretty much any other major franchise currently.. its also written in that way; the idea of standalone film for these things are pretty bland because "bigger picture." Not that it is impossible to be a good standalone, but i'd imagine its pretty damn hard to make a decent start to finish when the goal of the finish line is further back than the first film. Vice versa too, hard to write an entire trilogy when you tie off endings and have to retcon. I'm just optimistic that maybe mcu phase blueprint allows directors/writers to kinda have that freedom to fruition rather than getting raimi'd by execs wanting specific things for the purpose of money.
Valderen
Space Pirate
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I think it's fine that it's a young Batman and that he isn't the world's greatest detective yet. There's room to grow I get it.
My issue is he solved "nothing", prevented "nothing", and probably the worse offense in my book is that nothing he did affected the Riddler's plan in any ways. It would have been nice if at least once he had thrown a wrench in the Riddle's plan and forced him to adapt a bit, even if at the end his plan is mostly successful.
We would get to see 2 people going back and forth, I don't know it would have been more interesting to me, even if Riddler is successful, shows Batman can hold his own and improve.
My issue is he solved "nothing", prevented "nothing", and probably the worse offense in my book is that nothing he did affected the Riddler's plan in any ways. It would have been nice if at least once he had thrown a wrench in the Riddle's plan and forced him to adapt a bit, even if at the end his plan is mostly successful.
We would get to see 2 people going back and forth, I don't know it would have been more interesting to me, even if Riddler is successful, shows Batman can hold his own and improve.
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zzeris
King Turd of Shit Hill
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So...how would he do it when he had no clue about the major conspiracy for most of the movie? Prevented nothing? The Riddler's primary goal was to kill the new mayor, her closest people, and the wealthy and powerful who would be at her ceremony. Did anyone die from that part? Maybe a few drowned in the city?
The entire premise of Batman is that he studies and has the wealth to put ridiculous plans together. He's never met the Riddler before. He knows nothing about the dude. How exactly is he going to get ahead of the guy's plan? The power of Gary Stu of course!!
The movie has a lot of problems but as stated above, even the best detective movies usually have the action occur. Finding the killer afterwards is usually the best they can do. Who here figured out Riddler's master plan early? YTF not?!
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Seananigans
Honorary Shit-PhD
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Kiki
Log Wizard
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Who found the killer afterwards? Seemed like the police did, Batman walks in last and Riddler is just sitting there. Why no escape plan to cause more chaos? Shit's dumb.
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Nirgon
YOU HAVE NO POWER HERE
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Valderen
Space Pirate
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To me this is similar to Man of Steel where Superman snaps Zod's neck. Endless debate about it with people saying he had no choice...probably they are right, but the reason he had no choice was because the writer wrote him in a corner like that, something comic book writers avoided doing so Superman doesn't kill.
In this movie you're probably right that it wouldn't make sense for Batman to figure out the plan because he doesn't know the Riddler and because the plot ran so deep and there was misdirection. It's like that because they decided to write it that way, they didn't have to though and this is my argument. They should have written in a way where it shows Batman is a good detective but still has things to learn.
Write things a little differently where Batman can figure out The Riddler wants to kill Falcone so Batman alerts the police and they try to protect him but The Riddler still manages to kill him anyways. Do something similar with the ending where he figures out The Riddler's plan to blow up the seawall, and manage to disarms a few bombs preventing a massive tragedy, but not enough to stop it completely and there's still death and destruction.
It shows that Batman is good, it shows him interfering with the Riddler's plan...not enough to stop it, but enough to force the Riddler to adapt or had plan B. This gives opportunity to show that Batman is good, but still need to get better, but also shows that being good enough to solve riddles isn't enough, he needs to be ready to think further for alternative plans since he knows his enemy won't just give up if his riddle are solved.
As I said, the movie had good ideas, I think they were poorly implemented. The idea of a young inexperienced detective Batman is a good idea, but him being so bad at it that he has zero impact whatsoever on the Riddler's plan is not a good way to do it in my opinion.
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Shmoopy
Golden Baronet of the Realm
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Best Batman movie IMHO. Also seems most true to the Miller comics run - dark, detective noir.
My ratings in order of quality:
- The Batman
- Bayle Batman
- BatFleck
- Keaton Batman
- Clooney Batman
Had zero expectations but Edward Cullen was good.
My ratings in order of quality:
- The Batman
- Bayle Batman
- BatFleck
- Keaton Batman
- Clooney Batman
Had zero expectations but Edward Cullen was good.
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Zaara
I'm With HER ♀
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Watched it in two parts.
Definitely got to say, liked the set-up a whole lot more than the pay off. Best bat suit out of any rendition, hands down. In the first ten minutes they did a great job of making it clear it wasn't going to be constant fucking explosions and shit. Long establishing shots, no Marvel dialogue, everyone walking slow and shit oddly felt like a breath of fresh air. Loved most of the set pieces, the hyper-realized and 'corrupted' Gothic architecture. His Batman's more interesting than the Bale + renditions, his Bruce not so much, but this idea that he was basically this ghost of a real person came through pretty nicely.
Catwoman was there because she is hot. The shit they did for all her combat parts looked awful and ridiculous because the actress is literally doll-like in proportions, so she took me out of it a bit when everything else seemed relatively 'grounded' for Batman shit. I did love the intel mission in the club, best stuff she did.
Equilibrium homages were a nice touch. Know people complained about the point-blank bullet armor but there were some cool fuckin shots in that first club fight scene. Jet muscle car was no more ridiculous than the limousine batmobile.
Second half was whatever. Contrivances of the whole riddle game got dumber and dumber over time, way too linear. Made it stand out worse, when they went through so much trouble to make everything else generally more realistic (flightsuit, no crazy-ass gadgets, etc etc). When everything has to happen perfectly, up to and including your expectations of what 5 different men are going to be doing at any given point to converge at the very moment where you need to shoot one of them in a VERY SPECIFIC spot...eh.
Enjoyed it for what it was. Felt like it needed a few more passes in the script phase to really be as good as it could've been.
Definitely got to say, liked the set-up a whole lot more than the pay off. Best bat suit out of any rendition, hands down. In the first ten minutes they did a great job of making it clear it wasn't going to be constant fucking explosions and shit. Long establishing shots, no Marvel dialogue, everyone walking slow and shit oddly felt like a breath of fresh air. Loved most of the set pieces, the hyper-realized and 'corrupted' Gothic architecture. His Batman's more interesting than the Bale + renditions, his Bruce not so much, but this idea that he was basically this ghost of a real person came through pretty nicely.
Catwoman was there because she is hot. The shit they did for all her combat parts looked awful and ridiculous because the actress is literally doll-like in proportions, so she took me out of it a bit when everything else seemed relatively 'grounded' for Batman shit. I did love the intel mission in the club, best stuff she did.
Equilibrium homages were a nice touch. Know people complained about the point-blank bullet armor but there were some cool fuckin shots in that first club fight scene. Jet muscle car was no more ridiculous than the limousine batmobile.
Second half was whatever. Contrivances of the whole riddle game got dumber and dumber over time, way too linear. Made it stand out worse, when they went through so much trouble to make everything else generally more realistic (flightsuit, no crazy-ass gadgets, etc etc). When everything has to happen perfectly, up to and including your expectations of what 5 different men are going to be doing at any given point to converge at the very moment where you need to shoot one of them in a VERY SPECIFIC spot...eh.
Enjoyed it for what it was. Felt like it needed a few more passes in the script phase to really be as good as it could've been.
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This is exactly right. Also EXACTLY, what they did with Batman in Batman Begins, which is adapted from "Batman Year One" IIRC, while this is adapted from "The Long Halloween" IIRC supposed to effectively be a Batman Year Two story. Again, HUGE IIRC.
They saved enough of Gotham from Ras' plot that only the Narrows was affected. Batman defeated the League of Shadows henchmen who were all dressed up like cops etc etc. The plot just worked so much better there than here, tighter, easier to follow. Note: Doing everything in the rain doesn't make it cooler.
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