The Elder Scrolls Online

esloan_sl

shitlord
88
0
I'm going to assume you didn't even get very far in GW2 after this statement or didn't actually play it. Those dynamic events are not part of the main game in GW2; they were the very definition of 'side quest' as you ran to do something else altogether. They aren't required for the storyline at all. They are just a public quest, which is exactly what the anchors are except a lot less sophisticated.

It doesn't seem like it's worth comparing these two games in any way other than the PvP with you that you keep bringing up, to which point I will now only ask you about. You obviously have no idea what you're talking about when it comes to PvE, which is why I can only assume you think TESO's is really good.

So given that, what exactly is better about TESO's form of WvWvW vs GW2's that makes that worth $15/month? I admit I'm completely out of my element comparing those two things as it's all just one big barn burning in both games imo.

Yeah, I just wanted to see how reasonable Rescordia could be.

He surprised me with his choice so kudos for him for admitting it, although he sure fudged it with disclaimers and shit. But good enough.
I played a lot of GW2. I used it as a frame of reference because it was the last MMO I played extensively. The dynamic eventswerepushed by Arena Net as one of the main focuses of the game. They made a huge deal of them before release. Sure, you could level without using them at all but they were a focus of the developers. Not sure how you can argue that at all.

Again, I need to reiterate, I don't hate GW2. I played for quite awhile. It wasn't all I had hoped it would be but it was still a solid game. My biggest disappointment was not even the dynamic events. It was the lack of the trinity. Which, as I said before, sounded awesome before the game came out but really actually ended up detracting from the game for me. I think artificial intelligence is just not to the point where getting rid of an admittedly artificial mechanic like the trinity can work. Dungeons just felt too chaotic and had no rhyme or reason to them combat-wise. I understand that this is a personal preference and many enjoyed the lack of the trinity. I thought I would but I did not.

What I like better about ESO's version of WvW is pretty much down to two or three things.

1. The map size is so much larger in ESO. This allows players to spread out a lot more. It gives more room for small groups to work without being swallowed by the zerg. There is, of course, a zerg in both games. You can't have a game like this without having a zerg. They existed in GW2, DAOC and they will exist in ESO. But, in DAoC and ESO, the map was so large that you could work around the zerg in small groups. In GW2, the zerg controlled the map because they could get from one place to another really quickly. It was really hard to consistently use a small group effectively. In DAoC and from what I have seen in ESO, small groups can exist and avoid the zerg. I had a lot of fights in DAoC and in ESO where it was 8v8, 4v4 or somewhere around that group size and we would fight for hours before the zerg appeared. In DAoC we could use scouts to let us know before it showed up and move before it got there. I had a couple of fights in ESO where we did this as well. Its much easier to do on a large map and there is simply no arguing that the DAoC Frontiers and ESO's Cyrodiil ismuchbigger than any of the WvW maps in GW2. Hell, Cyrodiil is bigger than all GW2s WvW maps put together.

2. The PvE areas in ESO are really cool. There is actually a lot of PvE areas in Cyrodiil. There are ruins throughout the map, small dungeons, some world bosses and towns. A lot of my small group PvP took place around these PvE type areas. The zerg never really went there but smaller groups and solo players did. It made for some interesting and varied PvP. GW2 just doesn't match that variety. Part of it is the smaller maps but much of it is because it just simply was not designed that way. There were times in ESO where it felt like the old days of WoW on a PvP server, where I was ganking Horde who were just questing.

3. The final reason is the engine. ESO's engine simply displays mass battles much better than GW2s engine does. I experienced less lag and frame rate stutter in ESO than I ever did in GW2 and I never worried about player culling. There were a couple of nights of intense lag but mostly it just ran smoothly. I was really impressed with the engine and server tech in that regard.


For what its worth, I will state unequivocally that GW2s dynamic events are eons better than ESOs Dark Anchors. Dark Anchors are just Rifts without the variety. They may eventually turn into something better but right now they are just there to provide a bit of variety to the leveling experience. I feel they were thrown in because 'oh, hey look at what Trion put into their game!'.
 

Heallun

Lord Nagafen Raider
1,100
1,073
So, update. They've gutted the APIs for addons. Literally no way to get any combat information or to modify UI now. Is it some kind of joke that I have cleansing spells but can't see buffs or debuffs?
 

Dahkoht_sl

shitlord
1,658
0
First and last time I use GMG for a preorder , sigh , if I had done my usual and used Amazon I could simply cancel the order and be charged zero. No chance I can get a refund from GMG though.

Why would they make such a stupid decision a week before launch to gut the API and kill the add-ons ?
 

rhinohelix

<Gold Donor>
2,870
4,673
Not that I would buy it for TESO but I liked TSW enough that I bought a lifetime sub for it. Such a great game! GW2 and TSW are different reflections of best-in-current gen MMOs. Hearts, as most will probably know, were added very late to GW2 after feedback and concern that WoW players wouldn't know what to do otherwise. True story.
 

khalid

Unelected Mod
14,071
6,775
So, update. They've gutted the APIs for addons. Literally no way to get any combat information or to modify UI now. Is it some kind of joke that I have cleansing spells but can't see buffs or debuffs?
If true, this might be a killer for me. I will not play another MMO with a stock UI, especially not one with consoleitis this bad.
 

Menion_sl

shitlord
267
0
First and last time I use GMG for a preorder , sigh , if I had done my usual and used Amazon I could simply cancel the order and be charged zero. No chance I can get a refund from GMG though.

Why would they make such a stupid decision a week before launch to gut the API and kill the add-ons ?
Why can't you get a refund? I found that in about 30 seconds of looking at their site...

Refunds - Pre-purchase games : Green Man Gaming

Refunds - Pre-purchase games

If you have pre-purchased a game and no longer wish to purchase the game, please contact Customer Support to request a refund.

Please be aware that if any keys have been distributed to your account we are unable to offer a refund. We apologise for any potential inconvenience but hope you continue to enjoy the service.

Please note, Refunds cannot be requested over the phone, You will need to submit a support ticket to our Customer Service team.

Regards,

Green Man Gaming Customer Service
 

esloan_sl

shitlord
88
0
If true, this might be a killer for me. I will not play another MMO with a stock UI, especially not one with consoleitis this bad.
MODs are still allowed. From what I can tell, they disallowed MODs from displaying certain information about incoming abilities and such as well as from displaying some information about enemy targets such as amount of mana and stamina. As far as I know, and I could be wrong, you can still modify the look of your UI as well as the look and placement of the target boxes etc..

Its funny because this war has been fought in each and every MMO with a moddable UI since WoW. On one side you have the people who want as much information as they can get from their UI and, on the other side, you have the people who think it amounts to cheating. Whats interesting about this is that, until now, developers have seemed to side squarely with the former group. This might be the first time I have seen developers actually side with the latter.

As for me, I like having the information. The single thing that I hate about mods, is trying to keep them up to date constantly and worrying about broken ones when a patch came out. I remember thinking I would play WoW again soon after Panda came out. I had not played in a couple of years. It took me an hour and a half to get all my mods downloaded, set up and my bars where I wanted them. By the time I finished, I decided I didn't want to play the damn game anyway and logged off again.
 

esloan_sl

shitlord
88
0
Why can't you get a refund? I found that in about 30 seconds of looking at their site...

Refunds - Pre-purchase games : Green Man Gaming

Refunds - Pre-purchase games

If you have pre-purchased a game and no longer wish to purchase the game, please contact Customer Support to request a refund.

Please be aware that if any keys have been distributed to your account we are unable to offer a refund. We apologise for any potential inconvenience but hope you continue to enjoy the service.

Please note, Refunds cannot be requested over the phone, You will need to submit a support ticket to our Customer Service team.

Regards,

Green Man Gaming Customer Service
The key part there: "Please be aware that if any keys have been distributed to your account we are unable to offer a refund. We apologise for any potential inconvenience but hope you continue to enjoy the service."

If they have sent him the key for the early access, they might construe that as a key and deny the refund. Of course, if you bitch enough and to enough people, they will cave.
 

Whidon

Blackwing Lair Raider
1,880
2,906
So what are the good info sites for ESO? I need to find a good pvp healer build, but also just need info on this game as it seems everyone is more informed then I am.

After talking to Tuco, I am going to give ESO a go for the Cyordil pvp. Have not had a good strong group to play with in sometime it seems. So it should be fun if the pvp as good as many here claim.
 

mrmoneda_sl

shitlord
142
0
MODs are still allowed. From what I can tell, they disallowed MODs from displaying certain information about incoming abilities and such as well as from displaying some information about enemy targets such as amount of mana and stamina.
Also:

- You can see how much damage you just took, but not what kind of damage (fire/physical/magic - FYI some "fireball" spells don't do fire damage!) or from whom (which player hit you).
- You can no longer see your Resistances, spell penetration, critical damage, etc.
- You can no longer see enemy cast bars.
- You can no longer display information (length of time remaining basically) about any of your own buffs that have a duration of less than 30 seconds.
- You can no longer see what any other player picks up (loot window is restricted).
 

Jackdaddio_sl

shitlord
727
0
First and last time I use GMG for a preorder , sigh , if I had done my usual and used Amazon I could simply cancel the order and be charged zero. No chance I can get a refund from GMG though.

Why would they make such a stupid decision a week before launch to gut the API and kill the add-ons ?
Shit my man. I feel bad as hell because I got one of the beta keys you posted here, and that's probably why you can't get a refund. Do they at least allow you to get store cred since the game or Head Start didn't actually launch?

If it's any consolation, you helped me save $60. If you haven't done so, I'll gladly give you a beta key from WildStar so your eyeballs can bleed out like mine.
 

Jackdaddio_sl

shitlord
727
0
Also:

- You can see how much damage you just took, but not what kind of damage (fire/physical/magic - FYI some "fireball" spells don't do fire damage!) or from whom (which player hit you).
- You can no longer see your Resistances, spell penetration, critical damage, etc.
- You can no longer see enemy cast bars.
- You can no longer display information (length of time remaining basically) about any of your own buffs that have a duration of less than 30 seconds.
- You can no longer see what any other player picks up (loot window is restricted).
Sounds like they want fighting to be as pure as it can get. Does the CE come with black gimp masks that everyone wears on their head while sitting there?
rrr_img_63037.jpg
 

esloan_sl

shitlord
88
0
Sounds like they want fighting to be as pure as it can get. Does the CE come with black gimp masks that everyone wears on their head while sitting there?
rrr_img_63037.jpg
Its an interesting way to go for sure. For years we have had the ability to know exactly what the opponent is doing in a MMO. In WoW, I know almost everything about the opponent as soon as I target him. I know his class and his spec, I can get a pretty close idea of how good his gear is by the amount of HP and mana he has. I got to the point in WoW where I could target an opponent and predict exactly what they were going to do and in what order. I would go into a fight, target someone, see what class and spec he was and think; "Ok, gotta open with this, then he is going to do that and I need to trinket out of that, interrupt this and....blah, blah, blah.".

In many cases, I would decide whom to attack simple by targeting them and seeing the spec, class and gear. I can think of many times in open world PvP where I would target someone who was questing and then decide not to attack because it was a class or spec that was difficult.

By contrast, after these changes, you are going in completely blind. You don't know how the enemy is specced, you can't tell how good their gear is easily, you don't really know much info at all. Hell, with the class system the way it is, it won't even be easy to tell the class of the character. Since all classes can wear any armor and use any weapons, there are very few reference points to make it easy to tell class.

Its almost like walking into a bar and picking a fight with a random guy. You might get a pansy that has no idea how to fight but, then again, you might get a black belt in judo that will hand you your ass. Itmightadd an interesting facet to PvP. I don't know, I am just too used to having tons of information before, during and after the battle.

As for the rest, I see no reason to disallow buff and de-buff timers. That is just stupid. I also don't see any reason to hide your own damn resistances, critical chance etc.. Its your own damn character, you should have as much information as possible about him to make informed choices on specs, gear and the like.

No enemy cast bars and no displaying of damage type is okay with me I guess. But if they do that they really need to have unique and identifiable animations for a lot of the abilities. If you have no cast bar, at least make the animation for the 'big heal' identifiable so that you can interrupt off of that.
 
368
0
I did an Elementalist, Ranger and Mesmer to max. I think I did 4 crafting classes to max to. I know that I got all those up to that in about 5 months or so from what I remember but I certainly wasn't speeding through the content at all and did the WvWvW sparingly.

All I know is I stopped playing GW2 right after the first Xmas event and never logged back in again, so my memory on the fastest way to level is definitely hazy, but I wasn't the one arguing about which way was fastest to poopsock it. That was those other two guys who replied. My point was the public questswere optional, not a integral part of the story which they were saying but just another leveling vehicle. The equivalent of those being anchors in TESO, however poorly done.
If the bottom line is that the story sucked then you will not get an argument from me.. I hated almost all of the main storylines except the joining the circus one.
 

Blackwulf

N00b
999
18
Regarding the API changes: they're trying to keep people from automating parts of the game. As it was, you could run a third party client that would automatically cast your interrupt, rebuff yourself, etc. That shit is gay, and I'm glad they're limiting it.
 

Pyros

<Silver Donator>
11,058
2,262
Regarding the API changes: they're trying to keep people from automating parts of the game. As it was, you could run a third party client that would automatically cast your interrupt, rebuff yourself, etc. That shit is gay, and I'm glad they're limiting it.
If it's a 3rd party, limiting the API isn't going to do shit. WoW has all these available through the API and the mods don't cast shit for you, cause the mods can't actually perform actions without you performing an action. It's not automated, it's simply information. Mods can tell you what button to press but that's about it. Removing combat log information is also fucking retarded and has nothing to do with automation.
 
368
0
If it's a 3rd party, limiting the API isn't going to do shit. WoW has all these available through the API and the mods don't cast shit for you, cause the mods can't actually perform actions without you performing an action. It's not automated, it's simply information. Mods can tell you what button to press but that's about it. Removing combat log information is also fucking retarded and has nothing to do with automation.
I'm not sure what they changed. Did they make it so I cannot put a buff bar of my own buffs on the screen? Can I no longer target another playr to see his buffs to know if a debuff is worth while? If I am healing can I no longer see HoTs and debuffs in the group/raid menu thingy?

You gotta have those.
 

Droigan

Trakanon Raider
2,495
1,163
Didn't see if this was answered in my older post as I added it at the end.

How is the targeting system now? I didn't get to play last beta.

Are targets still fixed when activating abilities or random when using tab targeting?
 

Blackwulf

N00b
999
18
I agree with what some dude on reddit said:

I have to believe this is just one of those things where developers over correct hard to guarantee they remove everything they're concerned about (especially since launch is so close) and then they walk it back to some happy middle ground slowly.

It's worth remembering, big harsh solutions like this one are relatively easy. Just kill API functions. Meeting in the middle ground is harder, because it takes more coding and debugging effort (if they didn't like the API functions as they were).

Hopefully they bring some of this stuff back.