The Flash (2023)
- Thread starter spronk
- Start date
j00t
Silver Baronet of the Realm
- 7,380
- 7,471
the thing is, a handful of years ago, the amount of money these flops are making would be considered a hit. blade made like $160 million which was enough to warrant 2 sequels, a video game and a tv series.
the issue is the overinflated budgets of these movies requiring ENOURMOUS box office numbers just to break even. people hear the buzz about how much money a movie is making in terms of "it's ONLY making such and such" and they hear all they need to about whether or not they should see the movie. on top of the theatre business just being fundamentally different post covid and you end up with wildly over-inflated budgets and projections that are only going to be met by extremely rare films like top gun 2 and POSSIBLY mission impossible.
the issue is the overinflated budgets of these movies requiring ENOURMOUS box office numbers just to break even. people hear the buzz about how much money a movie is making in terms of "it's ONLY making such and such" and they hear all they need to about whether or not they should see the movie. on top of the theatre business just being fundamentally different post covid and you end up with wildly over-inflated budgets and projections that are only going to be met by extremely rare films like top gun 2 and POSSIBLY mission impossible.
- 2
- 3,106
- 2,712
dude blade released in 1998, which idk how you define "handful of years ago" but this is your "fuck i'm old" moment cus that was a quarter century ago.
it also only cost 45mil and it made 131mil dollars worldwide (which is 230mil 2022 dollars).
Movies that make money get sequels. Movies that don't, don't. You understand how 131 (or even just the 70mil domestic) is a larger number than the 45mil it cost to make? Blade wasn't some block buster film but even a 10% ROI is a good investment. If I loan you 45 bucks and 2 years later you hand me back 90 (doubling my money) that is an incredible ROI. same is true if its 45mil and you pay me back 90mil (closer to what the studio sees from international returns). Of course it got sequels.
Now on the other hand you have the DCEU. Movies that lose studios 300 million dollars end franchises. A non stop string of movies that lose hundreds of millions of dollars each, end companies. That's why WB got sold.
your whole post is retarded cope. There is no "fundamentally different post covid" theatre business. Super mario made 573m domestic and 1.35bil world wide less than 3 fucking months ago and it only cost 100mil dollars.
This movie was dogshit and so it failed. point blank.
edit: going back through your posts I see that you understand this point in general, movies that fail, fail because they are bad, so stop blaming it on "super hero fatigue" or "lack of interconnectedness" etc, so i'm not sure where you are coming from with this "post covid theatre paradigm".
It's still retarded cope tho. This movie failed because it was bad. it cost so much to make (and thus requires much more to break even) because it was in development hell for like 6 years and had at least 3 rounds of reshoots because WB was in complete disarray. WB just threw good money after bad, knowing it's shit and doubling the budget on marketing in hopes to salvage something. This film could of limped away only losing a few dozen million dollars, instead its gonna lose 1/3 billion.
A modern "summer blockbuster" style super hero film with good special effects and more than no-name actors etc is gonna cost you 100-200mil to make, no shit. Unless you go film school student artsy fartsy, black and white, lofi, whatever, sorry, its gonna cost you at least that much to film. Keep in mind we're sitting at real world 30% inflation over the last 2 years regardless of what biden claims, shit just costs nowadays. If you don't think you'll hit at least 200mil domestic then your film isn't getting made in this economy. if This movie had been pitched in 2020 it wouldn't have got greenlit.
Last edited:
- 5
Angerz
Trakanon Raider
- 1,234
- 826
This is probably true, but the actual solution would be going to back to the solo movies costing around 150 million dollars and not 400. Movies should be the A24/Blumhouse 20 million dollar fare or blockbuster that needs a billion to break even. Also, you left Transformers out of your list of disasters.
DickTrickle
Definitely NOT Furor Planedefiler
- 12,924
- 14,827
Transformers probably comes up a little short in the end but it's not anywhere near the level of some of these other films.
Chukzombi
Millie's Staff Member
- 71,678
- 212,895
Super Mario scored a billion on a hundred million dollar budget. Joker did it for 70ish mil. money is being mismanaged to the extreme here. they need to cut back on a lot of things. trim a lot of fat. dip into the minor league of actors and cultivate new stars. Harrison Ford was a carpenter. the only star in Star Wars was Alec Guinness. he hated how nobody knew who he was outside the role of OB1
jayrebb
Naxxramas 1.0 Raider
- 13,921
- 13,773
I'd guess there's probably a near-unlimited supply of producers who are going to keep finding the money to chase that illustrious blockbuster success Mario and Joker got. Because the potential ROI is too big to be affected by any risk management. If studios won't front big money, they will find VC's and investors elsewhere thirsty for producer credits and bring it to the studio. Expect more big budget flops.
Chukzombi
Millie's Staff Member
- 71,678
- 212,895
if Mel Gibson had another idea for a religious film(christian), i would give him a 70-100 million dollar budget and tell him to make it so." The Passion" has snowballed into one of the most revered christian films of all time. it will stay that way too.
- 2
Angerz
Trakanon Raider
- 1,234
- 826
this used to be how studios worked. they gave some group of people 10 to 50 million dollars, they came back with a movie. once a year or so, someone would get 50 to 100 million to make a movie, but it didnt need to be as safe as they do to day, cause even if it flopped, the 10 movies they produced at 10 to 50 million would keep the system moving. Everyone kept working, everyone had jobs (by everyone I mean the crafts/trades people, not the people who may have made the flop). This kept the machine growing.
But at some point, someone in the executive suites said "Hey, how about we stop making those 10 movies for 250 million total a year, that will probably bring us in 400 to 500 million, and instead make 5 200 million dollar movies that will surely bring us in a half a billion each, we can't lose!", except oops a movie isnt going to open at 150-200 million in ticket sales every week, that's not how the box office operates any more.
Outside of Blumhouse with horror and A24 with drama, no one is making the sub 50 million dollar budget movie for adults any more, not even really streamers. There is no 21st century New Line Cinema looking to start small, have a plan, and grow to be huge by taking a risk and giving some fucking crazy kiwi $300 million dollars to make some books for dorks into movies.
And I think Mario is kind of a bad example in this conversation, not cause it wasnt wildly successful, but I am pretty sure even if the movie was just slightly better than mediocre, it would have made a fuck load of money, cause Nintendo's IPs are woefully under-monetized since they are so protective of them after the disaster that was the first Mario Bros movie.
And this whole conversation doesnt even begin to cover how much they kneecap themselves by putting the theatrical window for some things to like a month. The new Wes Anderson movie had a great opening weekend for an art house movie, then they announced it was going to be on digital July 11th. "Well fuck, I heard it was good, but I can watch it at home in 2 weeks, no need to go to the theater now" says anyone who wasnt a big enough Wes Anderson fan to see it week 1.
- 1
- 11,041
- 41,722
You are SERIOUSLY overestimating how many people still have a media player for physical media anymore. And yes I am including talking about Xbox/PS/gaming platforms.
j00t
Silver Baronet of the Realm
- 7,380
- 7,471
I think you entirely missed my point that studios are putting exorbitant amounts of money into making these movies which makes it nearly impossible to recoup unless they are billion dollar blockbusters. There is NO room for mid-tier returns.
What I meant about post COVID, is that people figured out the value of the home theatre. You don't have to deal with high ticket prices or paying $8 for a crappy bottle of sewage water, not even mentioning dressing with people coughing and talking over there movie while they play on their phones.
Unless we're talking about some cultural zeitgeist, people don't want to go to the movies the way they did 3 years ago, but the studios haven't figured that out
- 3,106
- 2,712
You act like the studio has complete control over this.
a flop not putting asses in seats is a loss for theatres, why would they continue to license the films and sell fuck all tickets/concessions/etc? especially considering how many films are released. a movie not selling tickets is getting shit canned right fucking quick nowadays.
A studio who knows their audience knows how long to delay before releasing to streaming/home video. I'm sure they knew exactly how big wes andersons audience was gonna be and that most of his fans would see the film in the first 1-2 weekends. There's just too many movies released nowadays for a movie to stay in theatres stringing along in 5th place for forever like my big fat greek wedding.
streaming and home video is all part of the revenue that movies make and (though its rare nowadays) a theatrical 'dud' can sometimes turn into a cult classic and rescue profitability from the jaws of defeat with home video sales.
Fucker
Log Wizard
- 11,552
- 26,105
People would buy them if they knew the only way to see a movie after theatrical release is to grab a disc.
joz123
Potato del Grande
- 6,558
- 9,198
They aren't making extra money by putting their movies on streaming services that people already pay for. They need the money from the theaters as their supplement income.
Fucker
Log Wizard
- 11,552
- 26,105
Matt Damon said the reason why smaller productions are no longer being made is because they no longer can count on disc sales to push them into profitability.
As I said, the easy fix is to have blu ray available 6 months after theatrical release, then streaming a year or so after that.
I wouldn't be surprised if this is what eventually happens, because pretty much no one is making money off of streaming.
Chukzombi
Millie's Staff Member
- 71,678
- 212,895
the thing with that is people upload the blu ray and put up on the net for anyone to grab for free. so the streaming services tried to stop that by beating them to the punch. they tried.
- 1
- 3,106
- 2,712
Uh what are you guys talking about when you say streaming? Are you talking about some netflix or something?
Movies go to a particular studio's streaming service (where it adds value for the studio's streaming service, so it's a value add) or they go to a "rental" style like on Amazon prime video, etc.
The studios are getting paid for these movies going to "streaming".
Disney movies go to disney +. paramount to paramount +, wb stuff goes to hbo max or whatever its called now. I mean damn near every studio has their own streaming service and that value add definitely counts for something. It may not affect that particular films bottom line but the studio still gets paid for it.
Movies go to a particular studio's streaming service (where it adds value for the studio's streaming service, so it's a value add) or they go to a "rental" style like on Amazon prime video, etc.
The studios are getting paid for these movies going to "streaming".
Disney movies go to disney +. paramount to paramount +, wb stuff goes to hbo max or whatever its called now. I mean damn near every studio has their own streaming service and that value add definitely counts for something. It may not affect that particular films bottom line but the studio still gets paid for it.
Fucker
Log Wizard
- 11,552
- 26,105