World of Warcraft: Current Year

xzi said:

foh raiding is dead lmao godspeed to our new glorious leader, you better step up Moon

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You already know I'll be there, doing shit for DPS.

If you are trying to progress, ML will always be superior.

Have you ever tried to gear a toon purely on pugging? It's an awful, awful experience. Most the loot you get is garbage, and you just pray that somebody gets a drop you actually need and is willing to trade it to you, which they usually aren't.

Having that experience carry over to guilds would be pretty bad. Not quite as terrible as pugging, but still pretty bad. Sure, a few weeks in, most gear will be tradeable because people will have an equal or higher ilvl piece of gear by that point, but the first few weeks will just be people getting a ton of gear they don't need or want.

Secondary stats are just too important right now, and they have suggested that they are going to try and make the primary stats more important, but I don't see how they pull that off. Almost every BFA class on beta right now is identical to their Legion counterpart, but weaker. The only way to really make PL mildly successful is to significantly reduce the importance of secondary stats, so that when you get an ilvl upgrade, it's actually an upgrade.

PL was also a little more reasonable in Legion because of Legendaries. Since legendaries existed, most people had a much higher ilvl piece of gear in most of their slots, so trading gear was relatively easy. Even at the very beginning of a tier, you'd likely be able to trade any piece of loot that dropped because you owned a legendary in that slot. This will not be the case in BFA, so those first few weeks of each tier will really suck.

Mythic mounts will likely become an issue as well. If the mythic mount drop from each tier is put on personal loot as well, not only will they become close to impossible to sell, but it will affect who guilds bring in for that last mythic kill. Most mythic guilds rotate people in and out, and might have a roster of ~22-28 players. If it's random who gets the mount, the people who sat out for the initial progression will likely not get in for a kill for weeks, maybe months, because of this. I think they'll have to find a way to manage who the mounts are given to.

I suppose all they would have to do is make that mount tradeable, that might be reasonable enough. We'll see I guess.

Some people were saying there wouldn't be mythic mounts anymore now. Not sure if ion said that or people being shits.

Fyff I don't know how else I could break my post down to show you I attached that pic in jest. But in case you have trouble reading between the lines, that pic was posted in jest.

Mounts already are tradeable.

I made mention in a totally different thread about how incredibly awesome the original WoW vanilla zone designs were. Not only did they do all sorts of occlusion tricks to ensure the rendering and display of textures stayed butter smooth, but they also were incredibly efficient in terms of compact design.

You could wander through a whole extended plotline associated with a given zone including side quests and mini-dungeons inside burrows or collapsed structures and at the end of the zone find yourself about 15 feet from where you originally came in. You typically only had one flight path for a given zone because that is all you needed. The actual sizes of the things and the overall layout was such that you were never more than a 60 sec jog from the flight master even after adventuring in the area for the better portion of a couple hours.

I bring this up because there seems to be none of that spirit of design present in the recent expansions. Suramar is a spectacle for certain, but it is also an homage to wasted space and it looks like BfA is following in that same trend. I think I counted something like a dozen or more flight points in Boralus and the place still feels somewhat annoying to move around. This is in addition to the conceit of the 'campaign map' concept which has been around since Warlords of Draenor whereby you don't even really have zone boundaries anymore as you end up getting transported into the middle of each highly insular zone rather than ever actually moving between them of your own volition.

I am sure it makes it a lot easier to design a zone when you don't have to worry about technical limitations or linking up with another persons work in terms of entrances / exits / etc. but it also seems to show a little less personal investment into the whole thing.

Yea mounts that drop even in LFR on PL can still be traded. Though that still doesn't alleviate issues where someone who was barely there during progression but happened to be there for a Mythic kill might get the mount long before someone who put the time in from day 1.

Khane - I am not a Blizzard apologist. The change literally doesn't matter to me. My guild does personal loot and I have no desire to get involved with Mythic raiding ever again. I have to believe that Blizzard made a decision based around something. They are doing what they think is best for their company to retain players. They may be making a huge mistake. I have no idea. I kind of doubt it has much effect or the desired effect.

@Noodle - Sure thing man.

Noodle makes a decent point with that photo though whether its a main or an alt, its shit heads who are normal or lfr heroes that are bitching and getting classes changed, loot changed, dungeons changed etc.

BrM Monk was changed in ToS because it was "too hard" for new players to play.....so they changed the play style into something they thought was easier, instead of addressing the actual issue of fixing the UI so stagger is something easier to read than an icon.

You're gonna have a hard time convincing me these changes are because Blizzard has "heard the pleas" of the masses instead of it just being Ion and "the team" thinking they know more about what people want than they actually do.

Just go listen to his pointless ramble about the changes in the last Q&A.

Sumdain x said:

Noodle makes a decent point with that photo though whether its a main or an alt, its shit heads who are normal or lfr heroes that are bitching and getting classes changed, loot changed, dungeons changed etc.

BrM Monk was changed in ToS because it was "too hard" for new players to play.....so they changed the play style into something they thought was easier, instead of addressing the actual issue of fixing the UI so stagger is something easier to read than an icon.

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My very favorite part of stagger is if you go default UI you can go from 100-1000% stagger and not even know it.

Khane said:

You're gonna have a hard time convincing me these changes are because Blizzard has "heard the pleas" of the masses instead of it just being Ion and "the team" thinking they know more about what people want than they actually do.

Just go listen to his pointless ramble about the changes in the last Q&A.

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I never said it wasn't something that they thought people wanted without much to go on. I'm sure the team some where put together a correlation between loot and people leaving. It doesn't have to be something where people are complaining on the forums. Perhaps their bot army found out that people's last log in they attend a ML raid and don't get anything. Perhaps it was something on the responses from when you quit.

They also thought Legendaries would be fun. They make mistakes and I am in no way saying this isn't a mistake. It doesn't effect me one bit but I see a lot of salt.

At the end of the day, there are no "masses" they listen to. The amount of people who comment on a specific thing is a very small amount of their player base. If they are making decisions based on a reddit thread then they are 100% idiots.

I actually think legendaries are fun. The way you got them was the not fun part. Without tier or legendaries I am a little worried about BFA tbh.

Korillo said:

I actually think legendaries are fun. The way you got them was the not fun part. Without tier or legendaries I am a little worried about BFA tbh.

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Eh. All the different classes I played, there were Legendaries that were a 10% or higher DPS increase. Then there was everything else. If you didn't have those two legendaries, you were doing 20% less damage. Felt bad. My hunter, who I raided mythic on and would spam carry runs on for M+ finished up EN with only two legendaries. The Feign Death Helm and Prydaz. One of the other hunters in the guild got the BiS ones. There was nothing I could do but just simply be worse. That sucks man.

Yesterday I got the second BiS Leggo for Havoc. Feels good. I have everything I need so it's just upgrading the gear I have. All the other Havoc guys in my guild are way behind my dps because they don't have either of the items. Sucks for them. Kind of sucks for the guild because adding in another 200-300k dps per person would be cool.

So what's fun about that? It's not like many classes had a bunch of viable ones where they could change them and have different viable specs.

Ya, getting them was the not fun part, like I said.

Legendaries and tier sometimes changed the way a spec played, and I think that's pretty interesting. Without either I imagine it will generally play the same for the entire expansion, unless they add something else.

Noodleface said:

Fyff I don't know how else I could break my post down to show you I attached that pic in jest. But in case you have trouble reading between the lines, that pic was posted in jest.

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How about when the top 5 guilds in the WORLD killed the first 8 bosses on the first day of mythic being out and all the normal/lfr shitters were complaining that this new raid was far too easy? Including people in our own guild lol

I wish all the legendaries were useful and choosing between them was a cool way to customize your character. That would have been fun. Each time you get a new Legendary you can do something different which isn't better or worse, just different. Instead the system was you got a good one or bad one or none at all lololol.

xzi - The start of the new raid is certainly easy. There are some free loot bosses even on Mythic. We have enough DPS so even my shitter guild randomly picks up some pugs and does the first two bosses every once in a while. I get the sentiment but just because you are not actively doing the content doesn't mean you can't have an opinion on it.

I'm not playing in the NFL like some posters here from the Vikings but I still know the Browns are an easy game for the rest of the teams. Probably too easy.

Yea the Browns are definitely undertuned. Cleveland needs to rework the AI, buff the O line, increase release speed and situational awareness on the QB, and completely rework special teams. I don't understand why they don't just do it, it's not like it's hard. But who cares about the Patriots anyway? They are the .01%, so what if they practice harder, draft better and have superior coaching.

This analogy definitely fits. Humans playing sports against each other is about as close to MMORPG PvE as it gets.

Joking aside I do agree with the sentiment. Blizzard has been focusing many of their decisions around end game, bleeding edge mythic raiders for a lot of Legion, to the detriment of the game overall. However, the force PL loot change doesn't seem to be aimed at any particular group. LFR is already forced Personal Loot and you're still going to have loot councils asking people to trade gear they get via the PL system (when possible) within guilds during progression which is just going to create even more hassle and headache for guild leaders.

Wait have we gone to defending PL? I seem to be getting the feeling that they didn't want a raid economy along with funneling gear for the .01%. What is exactly wrong with a raiding economy? How is a guild making 1 mil a week running raids any different from a guy using TSM to flip different markets?

Also while this might put a small hamper on the .01% they will still get their kills. Who this really fucks over is the casual mythic guilds like I usually run with. The people that have about 8 really good players, about 8 decent players and a couple of people who are getting carried. Funneling loot is an absolute must for us in order to hit DPS checks and heal checks. Anyone defending it at this point is just narrowing the thin line of reason to play devil's advocate, or is an absolute moron.