World of Warcraft: Current Year

I cannot comprehend this

Fyff said:

Or they saw Mythic raiders quitting because the real problem is everyone thinks they can run a mythic guild so there are tons of mythic guilds out there. These guilds hand all the gear out to their buddies and disband. I don't know what it's like on other servers but on Bleeding Hollow the mythic raiding scene is Aids times 9/11. There are like 100 horde guilds who have 18 players who show on a regular basis all recruiting in trade chat spam for hours every day.

My guess is the majority of the population is in the casual mythic range where they are just finished farming heroic and now are going on to Mythic. The majority of the population didn't bang their heads on mythic from the start. They won't have 100 pulls on any boss. They will get down most of the raid.

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How does personal loot help these people exactly? Is your logic that these guilds will no longer exist b/c they can't hand the gear out to their buddies anymore, so instead fewer guilds will exist with higher numbers?

If these guys are quitting raiding, instead of joining one of those other 100 guilds on your server, than it would seem they simply don't enjoy raiding without their friends, and it's not a loot issue at all. I don't really understand the point you are trying to make here.

Somehow this is going to tie into me abandoning the guild. I just know it

Korillo said:

How does personal loot help these people exactly? Is your logic that these guilds will no longer exist b/c they can't hand the gear out to their buddies anymore, so instead fewer guilds will exist with higher numbers?

If these guys are quitting raiding, instead of joining one of those other 100 guilds on your server, than it would seem they simply don't enjoy raiding without their friends, and it's not a loot issue at all. I don't really understand the point you are trying to make here.

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The people who are not in the clique are leaving. I've been part of a couple of those guilds on Bleeding Hollow. I don't really care about loot, I just want to see content, but I've seen a bunch of people rage quit because they didn't get loot. I have buddies who stopped playing the game because they cared and got left behind.

As I posited earlier, my guess is they have seen a bunch of people leave because they were salty they didn't get loot. From the "numbers" we have seen based on people getting achievements and data mining etc, the player base gets smaller every year. They want to change that or at least slow it down.

Are there other motives? Sure, they claimed and pulled back on a couple times that split raids of lower tiers is a problem they think needs solving. This doesn't really do that, it just makes sure you start doing your split raids by armor type. The poopsock guilds are going to consume raids in a week or two. That's just how it is.

Also, Noodle never should have left the guild and he's a terrible person for it.

Anyone who quits over loot will simply quit again in the new system. They'll just get upset 4 weeks in when an item drops that they need and it gets traded to someone else. All PL does is make loot more inefficient to distribute, and makes getting loot you need more RNG dependent.

Noodle really is a horrible person. He doesn't sing me love songs *OR* bring me flowers anymore.

People quit mythic raiding because you can't maintain a mythic roster unless you're already raiding mythic. You can't recruit and hope to get any competent people for mythic when you run a group of 15 that do heroic. It is very rare to be able to transition from the casual, retard friendly heroic setting into the required attendance and basic competence needed setting of mythic.

Korillo said:

Anyone who quits over loot will simply quit again in the new system. They'll just get upset 4 weeks in when an item drops that they need and it gets traded to someone else. All PL does is make loot more inefficient to distribute, and makes getting loot you need more RNG dependent.

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The amount of people I know who quit over personal push loot like legendaries is really low. I have never seen someone rage because they didn't get loot on a PL raid. I'm not sure it's true but I'm also not sure it will change anything.

Obviously because mythic guilds don't generally use PL zzzz

Personal loot is best loot.
I’ve Pokémoned and raided. My opinion means more than yours.

Hot take:

People who bitch about loot councils will do so in every guild they ever join unless they are being fed ALL the gear. They will now bitch about loot going to waste as a result of the PL system, more so than anyone else.

Being on Bleeding Hollow and being in one of the top guilds racing for server first Argus (before my guild imploded), I can say that people didn't leave because of the loot they left because other people were being shitters and playing like shit during <insert boss name here>'s progression.

For my old guild, Red October, it blew up because people were just playing like shit on Argus progression and some left to go to Addiction, the other guild we were racing against. This was about a month into progress on him, so we were just extending for that entire month and the only way we got additional loot was from high titanforges from heroic or m+.

I can't speak for lower ranked/progressed guilds, but people usually leave at this level to go to other guilds who are higher ranked and have things on farm. The only time people had actually quit was when their schedules had changed and they didn't look for another guild with different times. Everyone knew that that the loot was going to get funneled to the classes that were going to help progress the raid as a whole the best. If you have the bosses on farm you'll eventually get the loot that you want. I can't think of anyone actually leaving the guild over loot decisions, there was probably loot drama, but that was kept behind closed doors for the other raiders.

I am not saying that ML loot abuse isn't a thing, but it must occur more often than not in lower progressed guilds.

I feel people usually left for similar reasons to what Zhro says. The current mindset of this gaming generation is that no one will blame themselves for poor performance. It's always the fault of someone else. And if they don't get the loot they feel they deserve, they'll go to a guild who feeds them loot to satisfy that need.

But this can be linked to ML guilds too because I've seen some council guilds completely bypass these people until the loot would be rotting otherwise. Which is kinda fucked up to the person they're snubbing. IMO if you have a shitter, tell them directly and not passively. Let them make the call to get better or get out.

Alkorin said:

This doesn't always work. Some people just don't get it, and won't make that call, to the detriment of the guild, until they're literally squeezed out of the raid by omission due to numbers, or being late, or by running off the platform on Kin because they fell asleep, or some other oddly specific experience.

It's also harder than not to do this in a less hardcore guild. Going from minivan raids to demanding performance from people caused some strife in the forum guild, for sure. Sometimes, there were obvious carries, but ultimately it cost us numbers for even non-Mythic stuff.

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Oh I'm aware of that. I've seen that too. But there should be standards set. There's guilds who have these standards then ignore them for individuals. Usually ends up being because the guild leader won't talk to the person, or at least correctly tell them the concern. Was in one guild early legion who had a warlock who would die early to the first mechanic on every fight, and if he didn't, he'd still be on the bottom of the DPS chart. Guild brought him along every time just because "well he's been with us for years" --- So bring him to normal/heroic casual runs. No place in mythic if he's not going to improve and tell him that. The allowance of these people also hurts the morale of the other raiders putting in their effort. Especially when this person gets loot occasionally, and sometimes even over the ones pulling their weight. The guild inevitably stopped doing mythic because the roster kept falling apart. No one removed the detriments to the mythic runs and the ones who wanted to do it understandably bailed after tolerating it for a longer amount of time than expected. And the group was making decent progress too. Cleared EN pretty quickly, but these detriments made it harder to get past 5 or so in NH before tomb launched.

The end result ended up being the same. instead of progressing mythic, they no longer could and just had to settle with normal/heroic after the carrying folks bailed. When they could have still done the casual normal/heroic farm nights for the folks getting carried, and cleared mythic on main nights for those interested. But the ones who wanted to do mythic got stuck having to reapply elsewhere and go through that whole nasty process. Which sometimes feels worse than finding a new job when dealing with the app/trial process, and it's a fucking game.

I struggled with voicing concerns. It was a systematic failure from that point on

Korillo said:

Anyone who quits over loot will simply quit again in the new system. They'll just get upset 4 weeks in when an item drops that they need and it gets traded to someone else. All PL does is make loot more inefficient to distribute, and makes getting loot you need more RNG dependent.

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Although if you can burn your reroll coins you at least have a couple shots at something if a boss has something specific you need. And once people start gearing up easy enough to trade stuff around shit if LFR can figure that out I am sure raiders can.

Noodleface said:

Somehow this is going to tie into me abandoning the guild. I just know it

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