World of Warcraft: Current Year

I always thought it would be better to have multiple smaller goals instead of a single timer. Say 5 per instance and you need to complete 3 to upgrade your key, and all of them for extra loot. You could randomize the goals each week, and make them whatever really. Limit time limits to specific areas of the dungeon, kill boss under 2 minutes type of thing or clear this area of trash in 3minutes. You can have other goals like tracking the amount of times people get hit by boss abilties they should be dodging, get hit more then 3 times and you fail the goal. Limit the amount of damage the group, exluding the tank, is allowed to take during the dungeon. Interupt 5 or more casts of X ability. Shit that makes you a better player instead of just go faster. There are already achievements like this, you could even tie the goals to them.

Everything you just mentioned is dungeon running at its core when the dungeon is timed. All of those mini-games are already part of M+ when trying to push timers to get higher keys. You have to clear trash within a certain time, you have to kill bosses at good intervals, you have to interrupt and CC high priority trash and you need to dodge abilities or you'll die and fail.

Maybe at very high keys when every little thing matters and your not grouped with random idiots. The vast majority of M+ runs the overall timer just makes people rush, try stupid skips that half the group doesn't know and just get angry with each other. Speed > everything and just hope the healer can keep up, even at +10 people ignore mechanics, especially on trash, and generally play like shit. The overall timer doesn't really give any feedback to help you play better. More specific goals makes it easier for people to see where they fucked up, reduces stress which will reduce rage and I think would make the runs more interesting if they were randomized each week.

It wouldn't really change anything if you play with a group of friends or guildies but I think it would make a world of difference in PUGs.

I know what the problem is. The problem is I'm pugging. If I want to do more than getting my basic weekly chest that's on me to improve my score and seek out like-minded individuals.

wat said:

Maybe at very high keys when every little thing matters and your not grouped with random idiots. The vast majority of M+ runs the overall timer just makes people rush, try stupid skips that half the group doesn't know and just get angry with each other. Speed > everything and just hope the healer can keep up, even at +10 people ignore mechanics, especially on trash, and generally play like shit. The overall timer doesn't really give any feedback to help you play better. More specific goals makes it easier for people to see where they fucked up, reduces stress which will reduce rage and I think would make the runs more interesting if they were randomized each week.

It wouldn't really change anything if you play with a group of friends or guildies but I think it would make a world of difference in PUGs.

Click to expand...

I'm not sure why you think it would change any of that. The mechanics in these dungeons matter at every level beyond like 5. The mechanics you are talking about already exist, so if you can outgear and ignore it now, you would be able to outgear and ignore it in the scenarios you are talking about. Most people don't willfully ignore mechanics anyway, they just aren't good enough to handle them while also trying to fulfill their main role. The dungeons exist as a way to improve that already. What you are describing is basically just a 5th affix.

Besides, fuck more trash specific idiocy. These BfA dungeons are already obnoxious enough as it is. Having to deal with things like Ice Spritzer AND Koja Cola Refresher AND Toxic Blades AND Inhale Vapors AND Hail of Flechettes in one pull when all of those abilities are on like 8 second or shorter cooldowns is beyond stupid. Blizzard really outdid themselves with forcing you to bring the class AND the player this expansion.

Khane said:

I'm not sure why you think it would change any of that. The mechanics in these dungeons matter at every level beyond like 5. The mechanics you are talking about already exist, so if you can outgear and ignore it now, you would be able to outgear and ignore it in the scenarios you are talking about. Most people don't willfully ignore mechanics anyway, they just aren't good enough to handle them while also trying to fulfill their main role. The dungeons exist as a way to improve that already. What you are describing is basically just a 5th affix.

Besides, fuck more trash specific idiocy. These BfA dungeons are already obnoxious enough as it is. Having to deal with things like Ice Spritzer AND Koja Cola Refresher AND Toxic Blades AND Inhale Vapors AND Hail of Flechettes in one pull when all of those abilities are on like 8 second or shorter cooldowns is beyond stupid. Blizzard really outdid themselves with forcing you to bring the class AND the player this expansion.

Click to expand...

I pug a lot and it's mainly a pug problem, when people die or we wipe its rarely ever 'ah i fucked up that mechanic' its usually 'wtf tank/healer'. Overall time pass/fail doesn't give good feedback to the players. Why did you fail? Because you were too slow, so the solution is to go faster, pull more, do more DPS, try to use this shitty shortcut your saw on youtube that saves you 30seconds when it works and pulls half the instance when it fails. Rarely is the solution to take your time, pay attention to mechanics and ensure a smooth run.

Specific goals give easy to understand feedback why you passed or failed and make it easier to teach players how to play. You failed to upgrade your key because the goal was to not let aura of dread stack more than 5 times or you needed to interrupt at least 80% of the bosses big damage cast, there's little room for 'wtf tank/healer' in those situations. Basically people are idiots and need to be told when they're doing something wrong and rewarded when they do something right.

It's not really an issue with groups of friends since you can tell them when they're being idiots or in very high level groups since everyone should know every inch of the dungeon by then but fuck shit can get rough as hell in midrange PUG mythics.

Grim1 said:

Worked in the biz for a few years. After the initial excitement wears off, it's just a job like any other job. Worse actually. The pay sucks, the hours suck and the people who make creative decisions are usually ego driven and bad managers. The people in the longest have mortgages, kids and massive bills like everyone else. They are just putting in their time because they don't know how to do anything else.

The gaming industry as a whole, especially in the PC arena, is largely older now. Their passion left them years ago. Most of the kids are doing mobile, like it or not.

Click to expand...

This jives with the decline in fun in BFA and "ideas for the sake of ideas" by Ion Hazzledicks.

Of which he was unable to substantiate or support at the panel. Every controversial change had to be answered by the big man, the senior manager desperate to put his own spin on WoW for his ego sake. Your analysis is pretty much exactly what another industry worker said. That people are older, brains are kicked, people are tapped. This makes way for guys like Ion to come in. They are relieved there's an "ideas man" with some direction and they don't have any input otherwise due to burn out. So everything Ion suggested went uncontested.

There's a "boom-bust" cycle and it has everything to do with age. When you're done, you're done. You're seeing the effects of age now.

BoozeCube said:

Speaking of pugging, I didn't pug AOTC early this tier and as such getting into any Ghuun group that isn't fucking full of retarded dipshits is impossible. Fucking people can't run orbs, people can't dodge balls, it's just fucking amazing how bad people are at this fucking game. Since FoH has pretty much stopped raiding due to burnout, disappearing, or whatever I am at the point where I am tempted just to join another guild.

Goddamn am I point where I am just ready to cancel for a bit.

Click to expand...

No matter what guild you join there will be a ceiling, there will be idiots who cant play, drunks, whiners, people that quit, etc. For me it came down to what was I actually getting out of this game. In the end it just wasn't fun and I didnt feel like logging in anymore

-one of the faggots that jumped ship

BoozeCube said:

That’s nice but they need to get over the stubbornness of not making all rep account wide. They say it’s because someone alt can buy from a vendor a 335 piece of shit epic they didn’t earn but goddamn is that one stupid as fuck arguement. Rep rewards suck dogshit anyways.

Click to expand...

Look, if you want welfare epics you go jerk off in a Warfront or LFR like God intended.

Hit 120 on my DK this morning. I'm now 328. A round of rares in Arathi. A couple M0s (I pugged so no carry or anything). And buying some crafted shit off the AH for 500 gold each. Did my warfront because alliance had it. Will probably do my LFR tomorrow and on day 2 be 340 or higher. Charity epics on a rep vendor don't mean shit.

At the start of the expansion they make sense. They fill a gear gap if you just got unlucky. It's 5 levels lower then the top gear at the time. It will give you that boost to hit normal or heroic raids (depending on your guild). After raids open the gear is pretty useless. It's expensive transmog gear I guess.

Yeah, have had two friends come back to the game this expansion and quit while doing 60-80. Despite having free boosts available to use because they bought BFA

But it's good that it's so slow for new and returning players so they get to know how to use the 1 new skill they get every 20 levels! The 8 buttons you'll be pressing at 120 would be too overwhelming otherwise!

They nerfed that exp by about 40% in the patch so why even waste your time now