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Pease tell us about your adventures on the trail that you know this is bullshit. Sounds like you live in adventure books and not real life.
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1883
- Thread starter kroenen
- Start date
Animosity
Bronze Baronet of the Realm
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Why do so many people on this forum forget that these are tv shows made for entertainment. If they didnt have plot holes they wouldnt be as interesting or engaging. Beth's abortion or the sex scene in 1883 are far from the most ridiculous things on those shows.
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Dunno if y'all have discussed this already, but the timeline seems really wrong for people on the Oregon trail. The railroads were already running by this time and had been for 20 years. There were bridges across a lot of the rivers. Wagon trains like this wouldn't have been common in 1883 at all.
Also I feel like they are WAY overstating the risk from white "bandits" and completely ignoring the native americans. It was my impression that as far as violence goes it almost all came from native americans. A lot more died of disease and starvation than violence, but they are showing it like mad max levels of banditry here.
Also I feel like they are WAY overstating the risk from white "bandits" and completely ignoring the native americans. It was my impression that as far as violence goes it almost all came from native americans. A lot more died of disease and starvation than violence, but they are showing it like mad max levels of banditry here.
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Oh I love the show, have watched every episode the day it came out... just should have been set in 1845 or 1850 not 1883.
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LiquidDeath
Magnus Deadlift the Fucktiger
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but there was a discussion between the father and the cowboy about knowing what it means to be a man and making sure you know what it means if you pursue the relationship with his daughter. Sure as shit sounded like everyone was in agreement that they were as good as married if anything was going down, just that they were of the opinion that she was too young for it all
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That also doesn't really make sense for that time though, in 1883 she's 18, she's probably late to the party for marriage actually, not too young. Thats modern thinking being retrofitted to those times.
Downhammer
Vyemm Raider
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There's a lot of little details that don't add up combined with other little details seemingly put in to make things add up that make it not worth thinking too hard about. I'm sure they wanted to go post Civil War both for slavery reasons and giving CW and buffalo soldier backstories. Similarly a Texas start I'm sure works better for Sheridan as a writer than starting in Omaha or St Louis. More realistically for 1883 would have been the Duttons tagging along with a cattle drive rather than settlers. While some of the language and social norms may not be entirely accurate they're certainly not enough for me personally to detract from things.
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elcaro1101
Vyemm Raider
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nu_11
Avatar of War Slayer
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No one dying from the impromptu tornado was a bit much. No one dying from a gunfight with 13 bandits was a bit much. Girl winning horse race against injun warrior is a bit much.
the whole show is a pop-Western. It’s a mix of brutal reality and fantasy Hollywood
Dont get me wrong, I like the show but it’s still very much a work of fiction.
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popsicledeath
Potato del Grande
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The reality they're bending and plot holes they're driving wagons through are starting to strain credibility.
It's the tail end of western expansion, but they're making the story about pioneers blazing a trail. Literally. There were well established routes by 1883, but for the sake of the story they pretend they're crossing the great unknown as if for the first time in history.
By then I bet nearly every river had some sort of ferry or service for crossing. Ruts and forts and trading outposts evidenced to this day. Nah, they're going some back roads, with guides who don't know where the next city or trading post even is.
The first automobile to make a transcontinental drive was in 1903. It's not like everything in between the coasts was abandon the second the railroad was completed. Only 20 years from wagons over the virgin plains of 1883 to some dude driving the first automobile across country on a bet.
Refresher on the timeline. 1820's the first wagon trains start heading west. 60 years of infrastructure and experience are built up. 1882 they dismantle all the bridges, ferrys and trading outposts so the Dutons can have virtually untouched lands for a true pioneering experience in 1883.
20 years later, all the trading posts and towns are rapidly rebuilt along many of the same routes so a guy can drive a car across country taking many of the same routes, but now with fueling stations and the ability to telegraph for parts deliveries.
Can't explain that!
But they could have just explained why they're going a different route, or made the story that these were the last of the wagon train pioneers with dangers unique to that situation. But instead just warp reality in a show that is praised for it's gritty realism.
They probably just wanted the civil war aspect, as mentioned, and wanted to cast Sam Elliott and there was no logical way to match those timelines without just making shit up that is very contrived.
Would be more forgivable, but Elsa is turning into a Mary Sue who just so perfectly represents our modern feminist sensibilities, and meanwhile makes every mistake possible, but is always rewarded for her folly and saved by dumb luck. Or saved by men who get no credit for this stunning and brave pioneer woman breaking down glass ceilings in everything she (mistakenly) does.
Oh no, more white bandits! Thankfully the English speaking noble savage will save the girl at the last minute! ...because her horse being fast was a plot point earlier in the episode, but is suddenly not as fast as three random horses now due the need of another plot point.
Thankfully it's all very credible because Interracial Indian romances were as common on the trail as your 18 year old daughter whoring around with cowboys, which was all totally acceptable to your parents back then if you were like totes in love.
When they kill her and it's supposed to be the most dramatic, gut wrenching scene in television history, I'm going to be glad. Because she's a big reason this show strays from amazing drama into silly melodrama so often.
It's the tail end of western expansion, but they're making the story about pioneers blazing a trail. Literally. There were well established routes by 1883, but for the sake of the story they pretend they're crossing the great unknown as if for the first time in history.
By then I bet nearly every river had some sort of ferry or service for crossing. Ruts and forts and trading outposts evidenced to this day. Nah, they're going some back roads, with guides who don't know where the next city or trading post even is.
The first automobile to make a transcontinental drive was in 1903. It's not like everything in between the coasts was abandon the second the railroad was completed. Only 20 years from wagons over the virgin plains of 1883 to some dude driving the first automobile across country on a bet.
Refresher on the timeline. 1820's the first wagon trains start heading west. 60 years of infrastructure and experience are built up. 1882 they dismantle all the bridges, ferrys and trading outposts so the Dutons can have virtually untouched lands for a true pioneering experience in 1883.
20 years later, all the trading posts and towns are rapidly rebuilt along many of the same routes so a guy can drive a car across country taking many of the same routes, but now with fueling stations and the ability to telegraph for parts deliveries.
Can't explain that!
But they could have just explained why they're going a different route, or made the story that these were the last of the wagon train pioneers with dangers unique to that situation. But instead just warp reality in a show that is praised for it's gritty realism.
They probably just wanted the civil war aspect, as mentioned, and wanted to cast Sam Elliott and there was no logical way to match those timelines without just making shit up that is very contrived.
Would be more forgivable, but Elsa is turning into a Mary Sue who just so perfectly represents our modern feminist sensibilities, and meanwhile makes every mistake possible, but is always rewarded for her folly and saved by dumb luck. Or saved by men who get no credit for this stunning and brave pioneer woman breaking down glass ceilings in everything she (mistakenly) does.
Oh no, more white bandits! Thankfully the English speaking noble savage will save the girl at the last minute! ...because her horse being fast was a plot point earlier in the episode, but is suddenly not as fast as three random horses now due the need of another plot point.
Thankfully it's all very credible because Interracial Indian romances were as common on the trail as your 18 year old daughter whoring around with cowboys, which was all totally acceptable to your parents back then if you were like totes in love.
When they kill her and it's supposed to be the most dramatic, gut wrenching scene in television history, I'm going to be glad. Because she's a big reason this show strays from amazing drama into silly melodrama so often.
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Daidraco
Golden Baronet of the Realm
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The realism, or lack thereof, doesnt really bother me too much in the show. Its entertaining to watch and just be in that "story" and forget about the actual history.
The one thing that bothers me? Out of the entire show with all its faults? Its that Isabel May (Elsa Dutton) puts wayyyy too f'n much emphasis on the god damn H in words that start with a W. Ive listened to her speak in interviews etc. and she doesnt do that shit. So like... hhh-whyyyy?!?! hh-what?!?!
The one thing that bothers me? Out of the entire show with all its faults? Its that Isabel May (Elsa Dutton) puts wayyyy too f'n much emphasis on the god damn H in words that start with a W. Ive listened to her speak in interviews etc. and she doesnt do that shit. So like... hhh-whyyyy?!?! hh-what?!?!
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Daidraco
Golden Baronet of the Realm
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It's the precursor to hiding under your desk in a nuclear attack.
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