MLB Hot Stove '13-'14

Halladay retired.

Hall of Famer or Hall of Really Fucking Good?

Muurloen_sl said:

Halladay retired.

Hall of Famer or Hall of Really Fucking Good?

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Not quite HoF. Sucks that it ended how it did but I think he needed a few more years to accumulate lifetime stats. He was quite a beast though.

Also doesnt help he played on some Awful jays teams that cost him a good 25-30 wins AT LEAST off his total.

He also played clean during the Steroids era, which also hurt his numbers.

Going to be a few more guys like this coming up that will be hard to really rank their worth.

I think he is a Hall of Famer. Two time Cy Young Award winner (one in each league mind you), a couple of 2nd place finishes in the award (separate leagues as well), a no hitter (post season) and a perfect game (which was in the same season as the no hitter), 67 CGs, 20 SO, 5 years of 200k's or more, and 8 years of 220 or more IP logged. The guy was the the quintessential definition of a workhorse ace pitcher. Probably one of the last ones we will ever see too.

I definitely put him ahead of Carpenter by a step or two.

Roy Halladay Statistics and History - Baseball-Reference.com

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Mark Trumbo headed to Arizona Diamondbacks in three-team trade with Chicago White Sox, Los Angeles Angels - ESPN

Interesting move for the Diamondbacks. I really don't see Trumbo staying in with them. I wonder if he going to be packaged and flipped for David Price.

The Mariners' outfield defense is going to be historically bad this upcoming season.

Hahaha, come one Rangers. I thought you were smarter than this.

Shin-Soo Choo headed to Rangers: 7 years, $130 million

These baseball contracts are retarded.

Kinda expensive but it's a little less than what the Yanks offered him.

Rangers really needed a top of the order/get on the bases guy to replace Kinsler and someone to replace Gentry in the outfield - so Choo was the perfect fit. New TV contract starts next year, gotta spend that money!

Gunnar_sl said:

Also doesnt help he played on some Awful jays teams that cost him a good 25-30 wins AT LEAST off his total.

He also played clean during the Steroids era, which also hurt his numbers.

Going to be a few more guys like this coming up that will be hard to really rank their worth.

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Compare to peers.

He's a Philly, and he threw one of the best playoff games in MLB history so I'm biased. But he doesn't even register compared to the Maddux, Smoltz, Glavines, Martinez, Rivera, Mussina, Cone, Brown, etc.. Same reason Schilling's punk ass won't get in. Too many were better. And I'm purposefully omitting the steroid douches like Clemens. If they let those guys in, there's 0 chance of someone like Doc.

I say "kinda" because someone was going to pay him around that regardless - it can't be that much of an overpay if that's the market. Pretty much every deal this offseason has been an overpay. He will outperform the contact for the first 3 years (5-6 WAR for $18.5mil/year is fine) and the last 4 will be shitty, but thats the MLB right now.

The Rangers want to win a WS and Choo was their #1 target and the best fit for their team, and they have money to spend. There is no hard cap like in the NBA so overpaying for a player doesn't really affect team construction - i.e., Lakers killing their chance of winning after re-upping Kobe.

Also, the rangers KINDA overpaid for him? Come off it, holy crap. Next you'll tell me Fielder is being paid a reasonable amount of money too.

Oh wait, you already tried to tell me that.

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I wasn't defending his contract, no where did I post that. I was defending the trade based on the talent alone and the needs they filled for both teams.

It's not my money, I don't give a shit how much the Rangers spend - as long as it's just money and they aren't giving up good prospects for bad contracts, it won't affect how the team can acquire talent in the future at all.

Not entirely true.

If Choo signs with another team, Cincinnati would receive a compensation pick in the June First-Year Player Draft. All compensatory picks come between the first and second rounds, and are made in reverse order of winning percentage.

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Source

The compensatory round of First-Year Player draft picks are a becoming a bigger tool in replenishing teams farm system. Astros have relied heavily on it the past couple of seasons to draft first round grade talent that happened not to get picked. It is a big part of why they have finally gotten the farm clubs back in order after years of neglect.

Don't get me wrong, there is no guarantee that whatever X player that could have been drafted this coming year by the Rangers would effect them, say 4 years from now. But giving up top round picks up repeatedly year after year to your peers can set you back in the long run.

But they get one back from Cruz, so its a wash. I don't think the Rangers have signed a guy with a qualifying offer until Choo either, for exactly that reason.

I just hope they don't win the offseason championship. We've seen how that's played out in Anaheim the last couple of seasons.

Objectively speaking, if he plays out half his contract at the level they signed him for, then that's a pretty good deal. As a fan, the only thing that came to mind was "at least it's not for ten years".

Man0warr_sl said:

But they get one back from Cruz, so its a wash.

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If Nelly signs somewhere else. He may end upcoming back.

Your need to rationalize every decision the Rangers make causes you to flip flop on your own statements regularly. You say signing FAs for a lot of money is OK as long as you aren't giving up prospect. It's brought up that you may, indeed, lose a potential prospect. And then you say it's OK because you might get one back from another signing?

Alex_sl said:

Your need to rationalize every decision the Rangers make causes you to flip flop on your own statements regularly. You say signing FAs for a lot of money is OK as long as you aren't giving up prospect. It's brought up that you may, indeed, lose a potential prospect. And then you say it's OK because you might get one back from another signing?

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I was more referencing prospects we already have in the system that are somewhat known quantities that the Rangers know can help them in the next year or two, not a draft pick that may or not pan out in 4-6 years. The Rangers window is right now while they have an ace and a great #2.

If Nelly signs somewhere else. He may end up coming back.

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He could, the Rangers could still use someone to DH primarily - but it's not a huge need and they aren't going to pay him the money or years he is currently asking.