NBA 2016-17 Season Thread - Knicks in 6

Lebron confirmed terrible teammate.

Ya sure, so terrible. KI was nothing without him and knows he will be again lol. He's just trying to leave before he's stuck there without LeBron and his trade value plummets.

I think they trade LeBron tbh. Hopefully to the Rockets. I mean who do you even take though, just anyone?

I would argue Irving is more than a marginal upgrade over Thomas. If given the load Kyrie can score 30 a night. He is also a MUCH better defender than Thomas. I would argue he is a better shooter, and undoubtedly a better ball handler and slashing scorer.

Not only that but he hit the shot from deep that sealed them the championship a year ago. Thomas is coming off an injury. Kyrie/Brown/Heyward/Tatum/Horford would be pretty good. Never going to happen but its fun to think about.

Just the height difference alone makes up for a lot defensively between IT and KI.

Still, I don't think you could do a KI/IT swap without Cleveland getting more. Maybe throw in a first round pick (not Boston's) if they didn't want to give up one of their draftees? They have had so many picks I don't remember whose they have left.

Gaige said:

Ya sure, so terrible. KI was nothing without him and knows he will be again lol. He's just trying to leave before he's stuck there without LeBron and his trade value plummets.

I think they trade LeBron tbh. Hopefully to the Rockets. I mean who do you even take though, just anyone?

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A shit load of draft picks. Lebron doesn't win ring in Cleveland without KI.

KI doesn't make the playoffs without LeBron.

Biggest difference between IT and Kyrie right now is the contract situation. No way anyone really wants to max out IT.

The Houston pipe should be put down, how the fuck does Houston acquire Lebron James? Ariza and the perennially injured Eric Gordon? (I realize he finally made it through a season)

Gaige said:

KI doesn't make the playoffs without LeBron.

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Cavs don't have a championship without Kyrie making the game winning shot in Game 7. Good thing he made a 3, since Lebron choked 1 of 2 free throws after that.

One play didn't decide the series.

DickTrickle said:

One play didn't decide the series.

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It just decided game 7... but okay

One could argue that Draymond tagging Lebron in the nuts decided the series, if you want to call that a play. Though I suppose you could also argue that his penchant for touching other men's genitals throughout the playoffs is what put him in the position to be suspended, so not one play. Tough call.

Gankak said:

It just decided game 7... but okay

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What a retarded view. So none of the other plays that got to that point mattered? Shit, might as well just make the entire season and playoffs be a single possession!

DickTrickle said:

What a retarded view. So none of the other plays that got to that point mattered? Shit, might as well just make the entire season and playoffs be a single possession!

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Kyrie's monster 3 just gets magnified more by the crazy fact that none of the rest of the talent on the floor (including him, actually, save for that one shot) could make a single field goal over the last X minutes of that game. Making such a dagger 3 also completely let Lebron slide missing 1 of 2 free throws that otherwise had the go ahead bucket only been a 2 could have given GS a chance to tie versus virtually sealing it.

But obviously all of the other plays mattered...specifically all the field goal misses that you'd expect guys on both sides to at least make something.

Merrith said:

Cavs don't have a championship without Kyrie making the game winning shot in Game 7. Good thing he made a 3, since Lebron choked 1 of 2 free throws after that.

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Cavs don't win a championship without the defensive play of LeBron's career, the chase down against Iggy.

Can't make a game winning 3 when you're down by 4.

Gaige said:

Cavs don't win a championship without the defensive play of LeBron's career, the chase down against Iggy.

Can't make a game winning 3 when you're down by 4.

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Game was 89-89 when he made that block. Kyrie 3 wins game either way. Jfc Gaige, you're supposed to be the big fan here, you didn't know this?

Jozu said:

I would argue Irving is more than a marginal upgrade over Thomas. If given the load Kyrie can score 30 a night. He is also a MUCH better defender than Thomas. I would argue he is a better shooter, and undoubtedly a better ball handler and slashing scorer.

Not only that but he hit the shot from deep that sealed them the championship a year ago. Thomas is coming off an injury. Kyrie/Brown/Heyward/Tatum/Horford would be pretty good. Never going to happen but its fun to think about.

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You can't say Kyrie is a "much" better defender than anybody, he's objectively one of the worst defenders in the league. They both are. The rest I agree with. Kyrie is a marginally better shooter, much better at penetration, IT is more adept at getting to the line. Kyrie is great in the clutch, IT just had an entire season where he was great in the clutch. IT also just had a better offensive season than any Kyrie has ever had. Yes, Kyrie could also put up 30 a game in a different situation, but at best he could do it with the same efficiency. IT really did just have one of the all-time great seasons for a small score-first PG.

Kyrie is a better player no doubt, just don't think he's that much better that the Celtics would give up Tatum for the trade off as was proposed. The Celtics say they thought Tatum was the best player in that draft. The last team the Celtics are going to want to help out right now is the Cavs.

IT's looming contract situation is a good point that was brought up. I don't think there's going to be much of a market out there for teams willing to offer him a max deal. He'd have to follow up with another relatively healthy superb season to start, and even then I'm not sure what teams would be willing to offer him close to a max. It'll be interesting to see how that plays out.

Kyrie is a super talented scorer, but there are some warning signs on him, he's not perfect. Piss poor defender, when Lebron goes out he can't lead the team to wins, believes the earth is flat, wants to start his own "The Village"... Kyrie Irving Wants To Start a 'Self-Sustaining Community'

zzeris said:

Do you think your counter argument doesn't sound just as retarded? It was literally the shot needed to win the series so...yes, it can be considered that if wanted. Just like the Jordan winning shot in 1998 or the Laettner shot in '92 for Duke. Basketball is much more of an individual sport than baseball, soccer, football, etc., so sure that statement can be made. Irving put in the dagger that killed the Warriors. We don't give a shit what Bron apologists attempt to counter that with. It's still fact.

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My argument is far more rational than yours. Your last line about makiig this about "Bron apologists" betrays your sophist nature. This isn't about Lebron or Kyrie but just a rational way of understanding. If Tristan Thompson doesn't make a dunk in the second quarter, or Kevin Love misses free throws in the third, or a thousand other things, Kyrie's three doesn't matter. All the plays before mattered for Kyrie's to matter.

Lebron needed Kyrie. Kyrie needed Lebron. In fact, they needed Thompson, Smith, and Love and some others too most likely, because they were above average level replacement play. I just don't understand how you boil a comparison of player value down to exactly one play and think that means anything. Was Curry a liability for the Warriors because he missed the last shot? Even Lebron at least hit one of the two free throws which allowed them to only have to defend the three point line instead of the entire half court. Do you not see how stupid it is to evaluate player worth based on a single play?

You want to say Kyrie was the better player that series? Sure, make that argument. I think it's not true because he was, at best, an average defender in that series (he did give effort), but that's at least a rational case to be made. It actually evaluates an entire body of work instead of one possession.

Did Michael Jordan need Steve Kerr or John Paxson? Was Robert Horry the most important piece of his championship clubs? Did they decide the series and Jordan was a second thought? Basketball may be more of an individual sport than something like football or soccer (baseball you could argue because of pitchers), but it's still a team. Even in an individual competition, like tennis, it's not like one single play decided the game. Every play before the final play mattered. It's such a simplistic mindset to only see the last thing as the only thing.

Did Kyrie make what was probably the most clutch shot? I can see that argument, but one play still did not solely decide the outcome of the series, which is what I said in the beginning. If you really think that, then that must mean you think all the other plays didn't matter, hence my suggestion of a single possession game. Obviously that was a retarded argument to highlight how retarded your argument is.