Pacific Rim

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infact the only thing i complain about is how the hong kong battle played out. I mean...who sends the weakest jaegers against the very first double-kaiju incursio while at the same time keeps the one Jaeger that litterally rips CAT-4 kaijus appart just far enought to NOT provide any kind of support

tactically speaking the marshal should have been removed from his command on the spot. If that's how they fought the war, i understand how they went from 30 to 4 jaeger in the matter of 7 years (considering there were 2/3 incursion at year that's losing more than one with each fight). With 30 jaegers at your disposal there is no reason to not double/triple any of them

sure it was the way to show how gypsy is badass but seriously.....
Well, that was because things didn't go according to plan, for either side (humans or aliens). It falls like this:

World govt has given up on jaegers, has people constructing the wall. Pentecost knows its bullshit but can't get any traction, so he tells em he will use the last jaegers to defend Tokyo which doesn't have a wall. Meanwhile, he plans to make one last blitz for the rift and try to blow it up.

He has the jaegers ready, but Mako has her freak out in the drift, which delays them deploying. Also, Newt drifts with the kaiju brain which freaks the aliens the fuck out. So rather than send the double kaiju wave out randomly, they send em right at Tokyo to stop Newt and take out any last resistance. Striker held back because it was the one who had the best chance to make it to the rift plus the bomb was designed to be carried by it. The rest of the jaegers were expendable, it was not. Crimson and Chemo got taken out because the aliens got serious and sent real firepower, specifically designed to counter them, with a specific plan in place. They were both experienced crews, but Crimson had a major weak point in its cockpit design, and Chemo got jumped in a 2v1 fight, which is shitty odds for anyone to fight in.
 

Valderen

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Giant robots fighting giant monsters...I had a massive erection for 2 hours...which drained all the blood from my brain allowing me to totally enjoy the movie.
smile.png
 

Grimmlokk

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Guillermo del Toro on the Pacific Rim Blu-ray, Frankenstein, and His Cabinet of Curiosities - IGN

IGN: Do you think with something like Pacific Rim 2, can the Blu-ray make or break a sequel?

GDT: No, we are writing the sequel. Travis Beacham and I are writing, so that is active. The decision to green light or not, that's definitely above my pay rate.

IGN: Right, that's definitely a film we hope to see. Obviously, you've already built this universe. So for someone like me looking from the outside it seems like in a lot of ways it would be easier to make the sequel, because so much of this infrastructure already exists. Does that make sense?

GDT: It does. To me, what was beautiful and flattering was how people saw the movie not once or twice but three, four times or more. People that love it, love it with great passion. So I would love to continue telling stories about that world.
 

Lithose

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i don't remember who said it but they nailed it. the movie is internally consistent. it is consistent to what it sets up as the rules of that movie's universe. if you are comparing it to the rules of OUR universe, you're going to run into a bunch of problems. for starters, mechs can't and won't exist. there's a reason why the larger dinosaurs spent 90% of their life underwater. because gravity does not affect mass linearly. That's why a spider can lift 10x it's body weight but humans are considered at their peak when they can lift 1x their body weight. a mech that big would literally crush it's own legs the first time it's stabilizing clamps were off. but that would make for a stupid movie.

in reality, you wouldn't have a singular mech. you'd have several mobile defense weapons platforms that you could launch aircraft from. in the pacific rim universe, that doesn't work because f-22's apparently have a 100 foot striking distance. there's no reason why those jets were ANYWHERE close to being melee'd, other than to demonstrate that that doesn't work in their universe.

almost every single nit-pick that people have with this movie can be answered with the idea of internal consistency. the acting complaints are vaild, to a point. i personally found it charming and campy. Charlie Hunnam was fine. he wasn't excellent and he didn't suck. he was average.
Saw it at home, the lack of weapons is still a valid complaint that goes against their internal consistency. Weapons were always extremely effective, even just trash weapons (Oil Tanker, Storage Cars.)....While the Jaegers had built in weapons, they used their fists, a lot. It made no sense that all of them didn't have some kind of sword or melee weapon with them, at all times (Yeah, their firsts could be clubs, but again we saw longer weapons work extremely well.)

Since the movie actually has organic weapons that make sense, the tech-based ones should also. A humanoid shape isn't the best shape for combat. Humans evolved this way because bipedal locomotion is extremely energy efficient (From what I remember), which is needed to feed our brain (Which was needed for tool use and tools>physical adaptations). So building robots like humans, that don't use tools--is pretty much as stupid as a human being trying to toe to toe with a lion using only his fists.

And again, thatisn'tcomparing it to the real world. In the movie there was a consistency of "goodness" with weapon use. The reason they always weren't use right away is obviously a homage to Japanese Mecha, but it does dampen that internal consistency.

Also, why there wasn't 3-4 Jaegers on a Kaiju at every encounter. Theymentionthat during one encounter they sent three out and they mention "standard two formation"--so they used exposition to say they used multiple Jaegers...Butin the only 3 encounters we see from the past, it's one vs one. Again, this doesn't feel very internally consistent, especially considering deployment domes housed tons of Jaegers. Gypsy+2 other Jaegers should have butt fucked that Cat 3 at the start of the movie, but for some unexplained reason, Gypsy was alone (And this was before the speed up--so they hadn't started losing tons of Jaegers yet.)...He did this, obviously, for the plot and because that original Jaeger Vs Mako Kaiju was cooler as a duel. But it was a bit sloppy on story telling to not toss in a bit of exposition as to why. (Have Elba say "You're the only one in range, other Jaeger's ETA X minutes, or something.)

Another flaw. Rockets and Plasma cannons workreallywell. So why not build floating platforms staring at the breech full of fucking plasma cannons? Okay, in this universe, jets and tanks and shit don't work--we get it. But these other weapons mounted in Jaegers? Obviouslydowork. Also they work underwater. And we have the technology to deploy to the breech itself (They do it in the movie AND they say they've tried it before.)ANDwe know Kaiju must physically emerge from the breach. So your enemy has to invade using a tiny little choke point.............and we're waiting to engage them where they please. Why? There's no internal reason for that, at all. It's just needed for the plot, no other reason.

Even if we take internal consistency and say only Jaegers can fire those weapons (lol)...Then why not take your 30+ Jaegers, deploy 3 at a time, and have them take shifts surrounding the hole with plasma cannons and rockets and shit aimed at it? WHY are you allowing them through, and giving them the element of surprise.


Those are three internal inconsistencies. Given all them though? I still really liked it. You just can't analyzes it that deeply, because all the homage GDT was trying to do forced him to toss in some silly things. And that'sokay. The movie was good enough to cover for that kind of poor consistency and that's all that really matters. But on the whole? Yeah, there were certainly some hugely inconsistent bits in the movie itself (Without having to go to reality vs movie.)
 

Chukzombi

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floating platforms are only effective against something that surfaces and would get totally owned from underneath by the kaiju's. if there were submersible stations armed with cannons at the rift that makes more sense, but makes for a boring movie.
 

Lithose

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floating platforms are only effective against something that surfaces and would get totally owned from underneath by the kaiju's. if there were submersible stations armed with cannons at the rift that makes more sense, but makes for a boring movie.
Floating staring at the breech* was worded badly, I meant floating "around" the breech, so little like submerged platforms floating in the water. And yeah, it would make a boring movie--which is why you toss in a small scene with them doing it, and then show the aliens able to put a pulse out from the breach for 20+ miles or something.

That's the thing, these aren't hard questions to answer--they were simply overlooked.
 

Beef Supreme_sl

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Trying to make the movie make "sense" underscores how retarded the public has become.

While I like most of my movies, and the characters therein, to make sense, Pacific Rim's only quality check was the amount of GIANT MOTHERFUCKING MECHS fighting GIANT MOTHERFUCKING MONSTERS. It passes that check handily.

Try to imagine your 10 year old self watching this movie. Would 10 year old you enjoy it? Yes.
 

j00t

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when you watched godzilla for the first time, did you ask any of these questions? no. you didn't. why? because they are irrelevant to the heart of the movie. the heart of the movie is "how do we assemble a plot around robots fighting monsters?" so yeah, in this movie, it's perfectly acceptable for the military structure and protocol to not make any sense. it's acceptable for military tactics to be non-existent. it's acceptable for things to happen in such a way that the things are "happening" specifically because we need the scene to change.

there are a hundred different areas where they could have added a line or two of exposition to explain things away. but honestly? there was too much friggen dialogue in the movie as it was. let's forego the explanation on why they didn't have a battery of plasma weapons around the rift. let's forego the explanation for why they weren't sending squads of 4 or 5 jaegers per kaiju. let's ignore that because it is putting too much time into non-essential issues. for this movie, explaining those things is non-essential. for a movie like saving private ryan? yeah... we need to know certain things. for a movie like the abyss, we need to know certain things. for a movie like terminator 2? we don't so much really need to know a whole lot. we just need to know that they still want john conner and that arnie is a good guy. that's really it. same with this movie. we need to know that big giant monsters are coming faster and faster, and the giant rockstar robots are getting fewer and fewer. that's the tension. the end.

if you don't enjoy the movie for what it is, that's totally fine. to each his own. but criticizing this movie for it's poor plot explanation and character development is like criticizing the godfather for it's jokes falling flat.
 

Miguex

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All the deleted scenes were exposition and dialogue, and the movie was better for them not being included. Agreeing with everyone with brain here.
 

Grimmlokk

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That's the thing, these aren't hard questions to answer--they were simply overlooked.
If they spent the entire movie doing mental gymnastics to explain why their ridiculous Jaeger system and style was the best we wouldn't see a Jaeger vs. Kaiju fight until the 4th movie of the series.
 

chaos

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Yeah. The entire concept of jaeger's is stupid. You would want mobile remote weapons platforms, maybe some aircraft. Railguns and shit. At no point would anyone in the planning room go "How about gundams guys?.... guys?" It's dumb, in reality. But this is a movie where, for some reason, it makes sense. If I'm willing to make that leap, I'm willing to take one more step and go with the "no weapons, OH WAIT Gipsy can has sword!" thing.

I feel like if they tried to make the hardcore realistic robots vs monsters movie that I would secretly love, it would be like me and three other people to watch it. And a budget of 900 million dollars.
 

Gamma Rays

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We entering into some University thesis level stuff here.

No I mean it, that someone could write ( actually it's probably already been done ) a thesis studying the relationship that a movie audience member has with the story-teller(s). How much lee-way do we allow them regarding reality. How much do we let slip by in an effort to keep the balance between explaining facts/reasons and getting a smooth entertaining story told to us that isn't burdened with passages of clunky exposition.

Yes it's good to have some of the big one's explained, that there's been an effort to maintain or present the logic path ( of the film ) but nit-pickers would always find another ten points that weren't explained. It's all about the balance.

Plus the way that it's okay for them to suspend reality, ie how many times should John McLean have died in the Die-Hard movies.

And that's the choice we make in indulging a good story, to follow the un-straight logic.
 

Lithose

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when you watched godzilla for the first time, did you ask any of these questions? no. you didn't. why? because they are irrelevant to the heart of the movie. the heart of the movie is "how do we assemble a plot around robots fighting monsters?" so yeah, in this movie, it's perfectly acceptable for the military structure and protocol to not make any sense. it's acceptable for military tactics to be non-existent. it's acceptable for things to happen in such a way that the things are "happening" specifically because we need the scene to change.
It's acceptable, yes. The point of the post thought was to show the movie was sloppy with internal consistency too--it gave up that in order to work in it's homages and because GDT felt dramatic effect was more important, which I don't think was a bad call. You just said everything was internally logical, it wasn't, not even close. You don't need to go "real world vs Jaeger" to find inconsistencies, they are within the films own logic.

In other words, even in a universe where Jaeger's are rational--some of the shit they did was really stupid. Or it's explanation was vague and failed in story telling.

if you don't enjoy the movie for what it is, that's totally fine. to each his own. but criticizing this movie for it's poor plot explanation and character development is like criticizing the godfather for it's jokes falling flat.
Those are three internal inconsistencies. Given all them though? I still really liked it. You just can't analyzes it that deeply, because all the homage GDT was trying to do forced him to toss in some silly things. And that's okay. The movie was good enough to cover for that kind of poor consistency and that's all that really matters. But on the whole? Yeah, there were certainly some hugely inconsistent bits in the movie itself (Without having to go to reality vs movie.)

I was pretty much just refuting the fact that it had internal logic. "The Story" wasn't high on this film's "to do" list, obviously. And that's okay. Your Godfather example though, pretty silly. Story is a central tenant in all film. Humor is not. See the difference?

Again though, this movie was intentionally done with B-movie story and dialogue, it felt that way at least. It really felt like homage to Mecha and Godzilla movies, and that's cool. But there was no logic, not even internal logic.

If they spent the entire movie doing mental gymnastics to explain why their ridiculous Jaeger system and style was the best we wouldn't see a Jaeger vs. Kaiju fight until the 4th movie of the series.
Reason for the original post had nothing to do wanting them to explain more, rather showing that any explanation was silly and clumsy. And that's what it tried to do at points with the military jargon (We were in a three Jaeger drop ect) and exposition. Either go with both barrels, or don't.

All the deleted scenes were exposition and dialogue, and the movie was better for them not being included. Agreeing with everyone with brain here.
Then there were at least 10 minutes of cheesy dialogue that could have fell with it. Again, I liked the film--but the defense of "it's mindless fun" is what people use for transformers. You can actually make a movie with a ridiculous premise and then keep your story internally consistent. It's not impossible and it won't make your movie bad if the movie is crafted for that. This movie was NOT crafted for that, I agree. So the parts that tried to do that? Didn't really work well.
 

Grimmlokk

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Reason for the original post had nothing to do wanting them to explain more
Huh? You literally said "these aren't hard questions to answer--they were simply overlooked. "

Overlooked. As in something that should have been handled but was missed, no? My point was if they tried to answer all these easy questions they "overlooked" the movie would be 2 hours of them coming up with convoluted shit. If our choices are that or a half-assed 5 minute voice over that anyone with 2 firing brain cells could pick apart and then the movie starts I will take the 5 minute stupid explanation every time. And that's all it was, they didn't try and convince us that this was realistically the most effective system for the rest of the movie. Stupid half-assed explanation right from the jump and from there you either buy in to the ridiculous premise of you don't.

This thread is literally people pointing out insanely obvious shit over and over and over as if they are the first person that thought of it. Debating what would have worked better in "reality" is fine, but the nitpicking overwhythey didn't follow those plans or spend time trying to convince us why they'd fail is silly. It's complaining that a movie wasn't an entirely different movie than it was.
 

Lithose

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How much lee-way do we allow them regarding reality. How much do we let slip by in an effort to keep the balance between explaining facts/reasons and getting a smooth entertaining story told to us that isn't burdened with passages of clunky exposition. .
I don't think it's really lee-way with reality. Rather it's the framework of the world that we hold them to. Sometimes directors get lucky, or they are really good, and they can have really open ended, loose frame work and that's acceptable because they spin the story that way, or they craft their world that way. A good example would be Joker in Dark Knight vs Bane in DKR--watching Bane actually pull off his little capers made him more defined than the Joker, and somehow less believable.

When Joker did stuff, it just...happened. We didn't really ever see how it happened. That lack of explanation remained consistent, and every part of the movie pushed that. We didn't see Joker wire a whole hospital to blow up without anyone seeing--it just happened. We didn't see Joker escape from 20 cops that obviously didn't die in his body bomb--it just happened. His origins? Never explained. The whole movie consistently sent this message that he could just do this stuff. Bane though? We saw the Wall Street bullshit (For example). And then all the sudden we had this evidence of why it reeked of bullshit. Sometimes, things are just better left unsaid.

Also, you can't discount that the quality of acting and story overall allows for more fuck ups. Ledger's performance was so magnetic that we were all probably a lot more forgiving of dramatic indiscretions. And that's part of movies, too. It really comes down to a mixed bag of things that lets us give the directors that dramatic wiggle room.
 

Lithose

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Huh? You literally said "these aren't hard questions to answer--they were simply overlooked. "

Overlooked. As in something that should have been handled but was missed, no? My point was if they tried to answer all these easy questions they "overlooked" the movie would be 2 hours of them coming up with convoluted shit. If our choices are that or a half-assed 5 minute voice over that anyone with 2 firing brain cells could pick apart and then the movie starts I will take the 5 minute stupid explanation every time. And that's all it was, they didn't try and convince us that this was realistically the most effective system for the rest of the movie. Stupid half-assed explanation right from the jump and from there you either buy in to the ridiculous premise of you don't.

This thread is literally people pointing out insanely obvious shit over and over and over as if they are the first person that thought of it. Debating what would have worked better in "reality" is fine, but the nitpicking overwhythey didn't follow those plans or spend time trying to convince us why they'd fail is silly. It's complaining that a movie wasn't an entirely different movie than it was.
Yeah, which is expounding on this post.

Those are three internal inconsistencies. Given all them though? I still really liked it. You just can't analyzes it that deeply, because all the homage GDT was trying to do forced him to toss in some silly things. And that'sokay. The movie was good enough to cover for that kind of poor consistency and that's all that really matters. But on the whole? Yeah, there were certainly some hugely inconsistent bits in the movie itself (Without having to go to reality vs movie.)
Which was in response to this post.

i don't remember who said it but they nailed it. the movie is internally consistent. it is consistent to what it sets up as the rules of that movie's universe. if you are comparing it to the rules of OUR universe, you're going to run into a bunch of problems.
I said it wasn't internally consistent, at all. And that's okay. It can't be analyzed deeply for that, because that wasn't really it's intent. It's all homages to other genres. And kind of silly. In fact,when it does try to explain stuff?It comes off as clumsy and kind of dumb. It invited criticism on that front by adding that useless exposition, or any technical jargon at all. But luckily those parts were sparse, it really stuck with where it's heart was (Homage).

The main point was the movie didn't have an internal logic, and it really didn't mean to, either. And that's fine. Saying it did though? Pretty silly.

Edit: Also, I think youcouldmake a giant robot movie that actually HAD internal logic and have it make sense. Like for example? Evangalion, the reason for the giant robots was internally consistent AND logical. But like you said, that's asking for a different kind of film. This movie was an Indiana Jones for Mecha/Monster films.
 

Fazana_sl

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I enjoyed the giant robots beating up giant monsters (or the other way round!) film and it just makes me want to see next years Godzilla all the more. I hope this level of analysis is avoided when the Big G stomps on random cities and somehow through the machinations of the main human characters is steered across to France and stomps that flat.

I was highly amused the best acting in the film was from the little girl running from the Kaiju though, even Elba didn't seem interested in trying too hard.
 

Lithose

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I enjoyed the giant robots beating up giant monsters (or the other way round!) film and it just makes me want to see next years Godzilla all the more. I hope this level of analysis is avoided when the Big G stomps on random cities and somehow through the machinations of the main human characters is steered across to France and stomps that flat.

I was highly amused the best acting in the film was from the little girl running from the Kaiju though, even Elba didn't seem interested in trying too hard.
Elba's "Where would you rather be?!" speech was hysterical. Half that was tongue in cheek homages to how Anime characters make dumb dramatic "speeches" even when their audience is just one other person, or a friend, and Elba really pulled it off well if that was supposed to be the joke (Which I honestly believe it was.).